What is the problem with Gagner? Do we keep him?

[RonJeremy]

Gagner has been traded several times, and Don Maloney said, I don't think he can play center in the NHL. I remember when he was drafted, he was considered a great pick. His stats are decent, no superstar by any means, but a good third line guy it seems?  What is the problem with him, anyone see enough of him to let us know if he is worth keeping or why he is considered a flop.

[flyercanuck]

I see him as a guy who needs to play top 6 but isn't quite there. I'll take him over Grossmann and Pronger. Worst case scenario is we buy him out, trade him at the deadline, or let his contract run out at the end of the season. Homer isn't the gm so it's not like we're extending him for 8 years.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The problem with Gagner is that he's awful defensively, a no no if you're a center. He was making strides in his defensive game under Ralph Kruger, then Dallas Eakins came along and absolutely killed him. When Gagner was dealt to Phoenix, he just never fit in under Dave Tippet's scheme. As for Philadelphia, gut feeling is that he moves to the right wing, where he's more effective. I'd like to see Hakstol re-unite him and Giroux and see if they can recapture a bit of the chemistry they had when they played together at the 2007 Super Series tournament. I know it was 8 years ago, but it could be something to try. It also gives an opportunity to spread out the offense and maybe having Voracek on Couturier's wing is a way to get Couturier's offensive game going as well.

[flyer4ever]

You never want to give up on a guy with all that talent, but 4 teams have already, including Tampa who seem to have an eye for it. Don't know if it's physical, mental, fitness, don't know. I do think the Flyers are in a good position to give him a good look though. Too bad he wasn't here sooner, just for shootouts.

[ZeZel25]

Gagner has been traded several times, and Don Maloney said, I don't think he can play center in the NHL. I remember when he was drafted, he was considered a great pick. His stats are decent, no superstar by any means, but a good third line guy it seems?  What is the problem with him, anyone see enough of him to let us know if he is worth keeping or why he is considered a flop.

Can't see him playing for the Flyers in any scenario. New coach wants responsible players, Gagner is far from being that.

[Mad Dog]

Can't see him playing for the Flyers in any scenario. New coach wants responsible players, Gagner is far from being that.

 

I agree.  His game seems to be an exact opposite of what Hakstol wants to see in his players. They will probably give him a chance, but I don't see him lasting through the trade deadline - and that's actually too long.

[yave1964]

We have Mr. Ewing who as the resident Oiler fan hopefully will weigh in here. Here are my thoughts on Gagner.

 

 Drafted by the Oilers number 6 overall in 2007, he was rushed to the NHL because the team sucked. Rather than playing junior or in the AHL or on a bottom line in the NHL he was thrust into a top six role, struggled and was buried by constant changeover in coaching staff and linemates. He got off track and never recovered.

 

 He played for the Coyotes last year, and actually played decent, 41 points may not sound like great shakes but it was second on the team. His 15 goals were also second.

 The problem in Arizona, IMHO was the same one that he had in Edmonton, too much was expected of him, he was forced to play first line center after the trade of Vermette and the season ending injury to Hanzal.

 

 Flyers fans will get what I am saying with this, I see Gagner as Brayden Schenn lite. A solid third line center who can play a bit on the power play, who can bump into a second line role on the Wing. 40 points, capable of playing either center or wing, defensive lapses but that is a bit overrated in his case IMHO. He really is not that bad.

 

 I think he got off track in Edmonton, played for the rancidly bad Coyotes last year and was their best forward for much of the season and can play if he is given the proper role. A good team that is willing and able to take advantage of his strengths and hide his weaknesses could have a very usable player here. If the Flyers cut him I would not be against the Wings signing him. He has to be used right and you have to cover up for deficiencies but he is unbelievably cheap and does bring more to the table than he gets credit for.

 Brayden Schenn lite. I really think that about nails it. If you hate Schenn, you will loath Gagner. If you think that Schenn if properly utilized is valuable, you would think the same with Gagner.

[pilldoc]

Brayden Schenn lite. I really think that about nails it. If you hate Schenn, you will loath Gagner. If you think that Schenn if properly utilized is valuable, you would think the same with Gagner.

 

the best description I have read yet! ..Thanks yave!

[JR Ewing]

Gagner's not a terrible player, though he had a terrible contract. This is the fault of Steve Tambellini, who quickly gave him a series of short term deals. He was probably drafted 6th

 

-Because his point totals were inflated by playing with Patrick Kane as well as Dale Hunter gifting him an enormous amount of PP time, and

-Because Oilers

 

-He was brought up way too early, though it wasn't because the Oilers were stupendously bad. The team went 41-35-6, and Gagner played 3rd line centre behind Horcoff and Stoll. So, in fairness to him, it's not like the Oilers cleared all of the centres so Gagner could get minutes. It's just that Gagner wasn't ready to play more of a full NHL game.

-Gagner has played for 6 coaches in 8 years, and doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

-It shouldn't come as a shock, then, that Gagner looks more like a player with 1 year of experience 8 times than a player with 8 years of experience.

-I've been telling anybody that will (or will not) listen that Gagner should be a winger.

[Lucky13]

He could be a reclamation project for Hakstol, or at the very worst I think he could be flipped in a bag-of-pucks trade to complete the cap-clearing maneuver. In either case, it's a great trade for the Flyers. 

[Podein25]

They have to give Gagner a chance (at wing obviously). It's a real chance for him to reinvent himself. He knows that and will be hungry presumably.

Exciting times to be a Flyer fan..

[pilldoc]

@Lucky13

@Podein25

 

It worked with MDZ..... I clearly would give him a shot at LW.  Like Lucky13 said, just add one more player to the list for Hakstol to hopefully work some magic.  I'm can't wait to see what Hakstol can do.  He obviously has a vision.  I just caution everyone that this probably will not be an over night success. (but most of us already know that)  Gotta give Hakstol time to get his message across.

[OccamsRazor]

I remember when he was drafted, he was considered a great pick

 

Yeah one pick before Jake......

[OccamsRazor]

including Tampa who seem to have an eye for it

 

He never actually played for Tampa...he was traded almost as soon as he was acquired...so really just 3 teams. And he was 2nd in points on a not so good Yotes team not to shabby...but still not sure what their plans are for him.

[Lucky13]

@Lucky13

@Podein25

 

It worked with MDZ..... I clearly would give him a shot at LW.  Like Lucky13 said, just add one more player to the list for Hakstol to hopefully work some magic.  

 

Yeah, I'm totally cool with giving Gagner a chance to revitalize his career. With just one year left on his contract, it's basically a no-risk proposition for the the Flyers. Moderate upside and really no downside to it. It's not like they're are a contender this year, so if he fails it doesn't really hurt the team in the broader sense, nor are we saddled long-term with an underperforming contract. And I was thoroughly underwhelmed with most of our bottom 6 forwards last season. Maybe Gagner can become part of the solution to that problem.

 

So I say, best of luck Sam Gagner -- here's hoping you take this opportunity and run (skate?) with it!

[sarsippius]

Exciting times to be a Flyer fan..

We're in uncharted territory with that statement, or at least it's been a long damn time since it was true.

[Podein25]

We're in uncharted territory with that statement, or at least it's been a long damn time since it was true.

Yeah, in many ways this has been a long time coming. A clear plan. Prior to now it's been 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[OccamsRazor]

Yeah, in many ways this has been a long time coming. A clear plan. Prior to now it's been 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

 

 

Sam Gagner: 'It'd be very exciting' to play for Flyers

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/sam-gagner-itd-be-very-exciting-play-flyers

 

"It's a very storied franchise, if I had a chance to play there, it'd be very exciting," Gagner said Sunday on a conference call.

 

"When I talked to Ron, he said that he's going to try to get it done as quickly as he can," Gagner said.

 

"I honestly couldn't even give you a ballpark," Gagner said. "From the conversations I've had, it's just trying to figure out where I fit amongst the cap.

 

"They said they like me as a player and they're going to try to make it work, but obviously with today's league and the cap situation, it's hard for me to say."

[JR Ewing]

Good verbal from Gagner; a real positive. His wife is a doctor, practices in Edmonton, AND is pregnant, so the situation had the potential to perhaps be not so great, if he was fishing to be moved closer (Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg). I think this is a good thing for the Flyers, and extremely low risk.

[intheslot]

Guess we will see the 30th. or.July 1 st

 Low risk High reward..

[canoli]

keeping Gagner pushes VLC even further out on the dead limb he's been sitting on. Maybe now Ed can put aside his pride and buy out Lecavalier. I'm sure it sucks for Snider, the whole Flyers' management team to not only admit, "We screwed up signing VLC" but also have to pay for the privilege. It's just so obvious that giving Gagner a decent look makes sense while riding out another season with Vinny makes none.

 

edit: plus I always liked Gagner. Not to quibble but I'd call him BSchenn-Extra-Lite b/c he doesn't play anywhere near as hard as Schenn does (even if it's only 1 out of every 10 shifts). The comparison is certainly dead-on as far as Hype vs WYSIWYG though.

[ruxpin]

keeping Gagner pushes VLC even further out on the dead limb he's been sitting on. Maybe now Ed can put aside his pride and buy out Lecavalier. I'm sure it sucks for Snider, the whole Flyers' management team to not only admit, "We screwed up signing VLC" but also have to pay for the privilege. It's just so obvious that giving Gagner a decent look makes sense while riding out another season with Vinny makes none.

 

edit: plus I always liked Gagner. Not to quibble but I'd call him BSchenn-Extra-Lite b/c he doesn't play anywhere near as hard as Schenn does (even if it's only 1 out of every 10 shifts). The comparison is certainly dead-on as far as Hype vs WYSIWYG though.

 

 

Nicely said.  Agree with everything.

 

I suspect they're going to buy Gagner out, but I kind of hope they don't.   Can he play the left side?   Even if he plays the right and wings the second line, it could be interesting.   If he rights his ship and actually has some linemates, he could prove to be better than anything we had last year in that role.    He only has this coming season under contract, so it's not really a huge risk unless they just can't fit him under the cap (with MDZ, a backup goalie, and someone else for LW).   I'm all for keeping him and seeing what shakes out.

[King Knut]

Gagner has been traded several times, and Don Maloney said, I don't think he can play center in the NHL. I remember when he was drafted, he was considered a great pick. His stats are decent, no superstar by any means, but a good third line guy it seems? What is the problem with him, anyone see enough of him to let us know if he is worth keeping or why he is considered a flop.

Maybe he can't play center in this league. How about LW?

He'll have an easier time earning that roster spot.

[King Knut]

Nicely said. Agree with everything.

I suspect they're going to buy Gagner out, but I kind of hope they don't. Can he play the left side? Even if he plays the right and wings the second line, it could be interesting. If he rights his ship and actually has some linemates, he could prove to be better than anything we had last year in that role. He only has this coming season under contract, so it's not really a huge risk unless they just can't fit him under the cap (with MDZ, a backup goalie, and someone else for LW). I'm all for keeping him and seeing what shakes out.

Why would they buy Gagner out? It's only a year if he plays, but how many years would we end up paying for a buyout?

How are they going to buy Vinny out? Why continue to pay slightly less for him per year over the longer duration?

You have to play Vinny and hope Hakstol can do something with him (he scored well for the three games before chief came to town) or hope he gets himself hurt. We did just game an additional LTIR slot.

If you can move him without giving up to much, do it. Otherwise I say keep them both and see if Hakstol can make men out of them.

I like the direction things are heading in, but I don't think this team is "dumping VLC" away from seriously contending.

If we get that much closer this season but him out when we're closer and the buyout will take less time. Right now, try to make him look good and tradable and maybe he surprises us in the mean time.

I have some small degree of faith that he and others will look better without chief. If we can get 20-25 goals out of him again and he's not too deep on. The minus side, I think he's worth keeping until we can trade him.

[King Knut]

keeping Gagner pushes VLC even further out on the dead limb he's been sitting on. Maybe now Ed can put aside his pride and buy out Lecavalier. I'm sure it sucks for Snider, the whole Flyers' management team to not only admit, "We screwed up signing VLC" but also have to pay for the privilege. It's just so obvious that giving Gagner a decent look makes sense while riding out another season with Vinny makes none.

edit: plus I always liked Gagner. Not to quibble but I'd call him BSchenn-Extra-Lite b/c he doesn't play anywhere near as hard as Schenn does (even if it's only 1 out of every 10 shifts). The comparison is certainly dead-on as far as Hype vs WYSIWYG though.

That buyout costs cap space. By just Comcast dollars and Homer's pride.

Cap space we'll be stuck paying when in the mean time if a real coach can make Vinny any better (20g again maybe) we can trade him and Reston far less of his contract. We may want that cap space next year or the year after.

Better to let him play and prove himself useful to someone (could even be us) and get trafes or failing that, if he's still miserable, maybe he gets hurt and hangs 'me up or at least can be LTIR'd.

I would seriously bet he's much better this year.