Polaris922 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/800220Nicklas Lidstrom thinks highly of Mario Lemieux.The defenseman, who will soon to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, recently said that of all the players he faced in his career, Lemieux was the greatest."It was all about Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and Steve Yzerman," Lidstrom told Swedish newspaper Expressen, according to NHL.com. "Lemieux had an incredible reach and some really good skills with his stick. Gretzky had that too, but he made all the players around him better. Individually, I would say Lemieux was the better player."......*. *. *. *. *. *. *. *. *. *. *Pretty high praise from a pretty incredible player himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I was going to post this, but figured one of you Pens fans would run across it eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPuk Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Mwahaha. Lidstrom - the most overrated player ever (with the possible exception of Datsuck and OV). I wasn't aware that he is also a great authority on player talent, but, what the hell, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Mwahaha. Lidstrom - the most overrated player ever (with the possible exception of Datsuck and OV). I wasn't aware that he is also a great authority on player talent, but, what the hell, why not? I don't know about everyone else, but I'll take Lidstrom's evaluations over any of these guys. 20 seasons, four Cups, seven Norris, a Conn Smythe and 12 All-Star Games. First Euro captain to win a Cup. Overrated, how, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Overrated, how, exactly? I'm wondering the same thing. Among defensemen, I'd take only Orr ahead of Lidstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I am not going to dignify that with a response other than to say it is someone trolling and casting his net. Of course the Leafs know a lot about defenseman, they ran Larry Murphy out of town to a cascade of boo's after a couple of cups in Pittsburgh, shipped him off for nothing to the Wings and another couple of cups. Lets see, the last defenseman who spent the bulk of his career with the Leafs who went to the Hall of Fame without having to buy a ticket was... Salming? so forty years of watching how not to play defense qualifies one to critique a seven time Norris winner. Riiiiiiiiiight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm wondering the same thing. Among defensemen, I'd take only Orr ahead of Lidstrom.I'd take Bourque over Lidstrom based on those I saw play, but that is it. Stiffer competition for the Norris in Bourque's days and he still won 5 and was runner up 5 times. Lidstrom is one of the most consistent Dmen ever, but Bourque is probably the only Dman who was an Elite Norris guy from age 18-40 almost every single year. Supporting cast is the difference between their cups. Replace Yzerman and Fedorov with Neely and Janney and a few less cups methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Mwahaha. Lidstrom - the most overrated player ever (with the possible exception of Datsuck and OV). I wasn't aware that he is also a great authority on player talent, but, what the hell, why not? spoken like a true Laughs fan... dear lord.... as a general response to the original post: does anyone really debate Lemieux's greatness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Here's the thing about Lidstrom: he's one of the smartest guys to every take the ice. Not many players have understood the game as well as he does, so when he makes such a comment, if can't be dismissed. I personally believe that Gretzky was better than Lemieux all things considered, but let's put this info the context of Lidstrom's career. Gretzky was the best player in the world from the 1980-81 season to the 1986-87 season, in my opinion. In the 1987-88 season, that shifted the Lemieux. Lidstrom entered the NHL in the 1991-92 season. At that point, Lemieux was tops.@murraycraven I certainly don't think anyone can dispute the greatness of Le Magnifique and keep credibility. Someone who's completely honest, while they may not believe him to be the greatest ever, has to acknowledge that there are arguments in his favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 @ScottM As Long as it is not Gretzky making the comment. I respect the great one, but he has said like 20 different players are the best he has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPuk Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So, his (Lidstrom's) opinion makes it so? Better defensemen than him? In no particular order: OrrParkCoffeeNeidermierBourqueHarveyPotvinDoughty - and many, many more. All better than Lidstrom. Wayne Gretzky was the greatest player, ever, by a country mile. No one even comes close. Not Mario, not anybody. For future reference - the second best all-time - was the Rocket. Just IMHO of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So, his (Lidstrom's) opinion makes it so? No, it makes it his opinion. Better defensemen than him? In no particular order:OrrParkCoffeeyNeidermiayerBourqueHarveyPotvinDoughty - and many, many more. All better than Lidstrom. So you're saying that "the most overrated player ever" is one of the 20 best defencemen in the history of the game, then? Okeley dokeley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So, his (Lidstrom's) opinion makes it so? Better defensemen than him? In no particular order: OrrParkCoffeeNeidermierBourqueHarveyPotvinDoughty - and many, many more. All better than Lidstrom. Wayne Gretzky was the greatest player, ever, by a country mile. No one even comes close. Not Mario, not anybody. For future reference - the second best all-time - was the Rocket. Just IMHO of course... What the hell? I can't speak for everyone on that list since I did not see most of them play. I can see an argument for Coffey, even though I disagree, just because of his numbers.Potvin I only saw the tail end of. But I saw plenty of Niedermayer and Doughty. They don't even come close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 @ScottM As Long as it is not Gretzky making the comment. I respect the great one, but he has said like 20 different players are the best he has ever seen. I think Gretzky once said my childhood dog was the greatest ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So, his (Lidstrom's) opinion makes it so? Better defensemen than him? In no particular order: OrrParkCoffeeNeidermierBourqueHarveyPotvinDoughty - and many, many more. All better than Lidstrom. Wayne Gretzky was the greatest player, ever, by a country mile. No one even comes close. Not Mario, not anybody. For future reference - the second best all-time - was the Rocket. Just IMHO of course... I don't think it's anywhere near accurate to say anyone is the best player "by a country mile." There are arguments to be made for some of those defensemen, but some of them don't belong in the same sentence as Lidstrom. Niedermayer and Doughty are way out of their league in that group, and while as @J0e Th0rnton said, the case can be made for Coffey based on stats, I think he's grossly overrated. There's really nothing about Lidstrom's game to say that about unless you expect all defensemen to be offensive powerhouses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Wayne Gretzky was the greatest player, ever, by a country mile. No one even comes close. Not Mario, not anybody. Just IMHO of course... We're not back to the 99 vs 66 discussion again are we? Gretzky put up sensational numbers... absolutely. But if you take Lemieux and put him on the Edmonton Oilers during that same time period, you will see that his numbers would equal Gretzky's in every respect. Mario played his best years during a lower scoring era, and he didn't play on a dynasty like Wayne did. I've said before many times that Lemieux is the ONLY player in NHL history that can say he played the game at the SAME LEVEL of greatness as #99.... and nobody in the game would argue with him, not even Gretzky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 We're not back to the 99 vs 66 discussion again are we? Gretzky put up sensational numbers... absolutely. But if you take Lemieux and put him on the Edmonton Oilers during that same time period, you will see that his numbers would equal Gretzky's in every respect. Mario played his best years during a lower scoring era, and he didn't play on a dynasty like Wayne did. I've said before many times that Lemieux is the ONLY player in NHL history that can say he played the game at the SAME LEVEL of greatness as #99.... and nobody in the game would argue with him, not even Gretzky. First off, I'm not going to argue that Mario wasn't as good (or possibly better) than Gretzky. But the dynasty argument doesn't really hold up. Look at Gretzky's first two years in the league. He put up 137 and 164 points. The second year, he had more than twice as many points as anyone else on the team. Kurri had 75 and Messier had 63, both were all of 20 years old. Gretzky's first year the Oilers were 28-39-13. The next year, 29-35-16. None of that screams "dynasty". Fact is, Gretzky was putting up fantastic numbers in the NHL before Edmonton became a powerhouse. I think there is a decent argument to be made in favor of Mario, but the "dynasty" argument doesn't really work. And since Orr was better than both of them, they're fighting for 2nd place anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 @JackStraw Don't forget Mr. Hockey either. LolAnyway, in the context of Lidstrom's comment (and this is not directed at anyone specifically) this ultimately isn't who was greater overall. Lidstrom was not yet in the league when Gretzky was at his peak. He didn't play against a peak Gretzky, and I don't really think he was trying to wade into the GOAT discussion. I believe he was simply trying to honor Lemieux by saying that of the guys he played against, at the levels they were then at, that Lemieux was the best. Again, considering that time peeps, I believe he's right, and I certainly think his opinion is valid with his experience and understanding of hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerfan2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 And since Orr was better than both of them, they're fighting for 2nd place anyway... , Clarke 1st, and then the rest in no particular order, Lidstrom's lucky he never played against Clarke , or he would have been limping to that interview.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 , Clarke 1st, and then the rest in no particular order, Lidstrom's lucky he never played against Clarke , or he would have been limping to that interview.! Ask Lindros what it's like to face Lidstrom. Yeah, I went there. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ask Lindros what it's like to face Lidstrom. Yeah, I went there. LolOuch You really know how to hurt a guy haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 , Clarke 1st, and then the rest in no particular order, Lidstrom's lucky he never played against Clarke , or he would have been limping to that interview.! He did have a particular dislike for Euro's Thing is, Clarke would be banned from the league for stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thing is, Clarke would be banned from the league for stuff like this. Nah, they would have just sicked Bob Kelly on Clarance Campbell and all would be forgotten.....ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 First off, I'm not going to argue that Mario wasn't as good (or possibly better) than Gretzky. But the dynasty argument doesn't really hold up. Look at Gretzky's first two years in the league. He put up 137 and 164 points. The second year, he had more than twice as many points as anyone else on the team. Kurri had 75 and Messier had 63, both were all of 20 years old. Gretzky's first year the Oilers were 28-39-13. The next year, 29-35-16. None of that screams "dynasty". Fact is, Gretzky was putting up fantastic numbers in the NHL before Edmonton became a powerhouse. I think there is a decent argument to be made in favor of Mario, but the "dynasty" argument doesn't really work. And since Orr was better than both of them, they're fighting for 2nd place anyway... Absolutely, but my point was that during his best years, Gretzky's "supporting cast" was even stronger than Lemieux's -- and that's really saying something. But in any event, even if the Penguins were equal in talent to the Oilers, there's still the issue of the drop in league scoring. Lemieux didn't get his best years in when goal scoring was at its peak. He just missed it. Gretzky's prime was in hockey's highest scoring era. I don't know what to make of Orr. He was before my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerfan2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 He did have a particular dislike for Euro's Thing is, Clarke would be banned from the league for stuff like this.For a little bit of glove to the face ? ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.