mojo1917 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 on another note: L Schenn gets a lot of flack here, but it was great to see him go to battle for Schultz. LS is a lot of things- good and bad - but he is an excellent teammate. Luke has been a good to very good player for the team this year as well. I asked the question in another thread if Luke is a part of the team going forward...I'm not sure, he'll want a raise, I don't know if I think he's a 4 million dollar a year player and i don't for how long i want him to make that much money vs the cap.I do think he has leadership qualities and as you said is a good teammate, it seems to me like now that he's finally getting it, the flyers will deal him at the deadline, just when he's about to pay off. I also don't really know how much we'll miss him with the talent that is in the pipeline, I wish he'd have been "this" player earlier in his Flyer career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Luke has been a good to very good player for the team this year as well. I asked the question in another thread if Luke is a part of the team going forward...I'm not sure, he'll want a raise, I don't know if I think he's a 4 million dollar a year player and i don't for how long i want him to make that much money vs the cap.I do think he has leadership qualities and as you said is a good teammate, it seems to me like now that he's finally getting it, the flyers will deal him at the deadline, just when he's about to pay off. I also don't really know how much we'll miss him with the talent that is in the pipeline, I wish he'd have been "this" player earlier in his Flyer career. I read something about Hex barely getting any calls about Luke at all, despite many teams looking for dmen this year. I agree he's been much better this year than previous years, though part of that is because he really was not very good in previous years. I also agree that he's not really worth what his asking price is likely to be. That said, if the trend continues and Hex really isn't getting any trade calls for him, there may be an incentive on Luke's side to work something out at a lower -- and I would say more reasonable -- price. The pipeline has some great prospective talent obviously, but Schenn isn't really the dman I would most get rid of at this point. If Hex can get him for a reasonable term at a reasonable price, he's probably worth keeping. The alternative would mean having to find another Schultz or Manning to bandaid until the youngins are ready for the big time. And that sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I wish he'd have been "this" player earlier in his Flyer career. This a thousand times over. If he can continue to play at his current level, I could be convinced to change my mind on re-signing him. It could actually be that he is going to thrive in Hakstol's defense first oriented system in which case, a three year deal with NO NMC would probably be alright. I was really getting used to hating his bonehead plays and poor turnovers but he honestly seems to be getting past that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 This a thousand times over. If he can continue to play at his current level, I could be convinced to change my mind on re-signing him. It could actually be that he is going to thrive in Hakstol's defense first oriented system in which case, a three year deal with NO NMC would probably be alright. I was really getting used to hating his bonehead plays and poor turnovers but he honestly seems to be getting past that..... i wouldnt resign him at all, i mean yeah he's playing well but what will happen after he gets a big contract? if schenn stays here then ghost has to go back to ahl because there's no cap room for him. the only reason schenn is playing well is because he wants a big payday. after that, he'll probably stink it up again. if hextall cant trade anyone then the young players like ghost and provorov will have no change of playing in the nhl because there's no cap room. both schenns have to traded, i understand you like them but this team needs cap room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 @briere48 Nobody has said anything about a big contract. He doesn't deserve a big contract. He's also far from the worst problem on the team...as is his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Luke has been a good to very good player for the team this year as well. I asked the question in another thread if Luke is a part of the team going forward...I'm not sure, he'll want a raise, I don't know if I think he's a 4 million dollar a year player and i don't for how long i want him to make that much money vs the cap.I do think he has leadership qualities and as you said is a good teammate, it seems to me like now that he's finally getting it, the flyers will deal him at the deadline, just when he's about to pay off. I also don't really know how much we'll miss him with the talent that is in the pipeline, I wish he'd have been "this" player earlier in his Flyer career. I agree he has played his best hockey under Hak. What Luke needs is a Dman who can play opposite of him an offensive guy to bring out his solid stay at home quality. And that guy ain't Schultz...he is garbage and needs to be removed from the lineup as soon as possible. I hate he got hurt but maybe he stay out awhile now and they find out another option is best and when he is healthy he just sits in the box. Luke signed for 3.8-4mill for 3 years wouldn't be the end of the world. My biggest thing is can he maintain his solid play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 @briere48 Nobody has said anything about a big contract. He doesn't deserve a big contract. He's also far from the worst problem on the team...as is his brother. he's going to want a big contract, if that happens hextall has to trade him, i think he's going to be traded regardless because of what ghost brings to this team that schenn doesnt, mobile and an offensive punch. if schenn stays here, when streit comes back, they have no cap and ghost gets sent back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 i understand you like them but this team needs cap room. You are kidding right? I have been ready to move either/or both of the Schenns. "I could be convinced to..." Is not I am in mad man love with either of them. I am merely stating that Schenn seems to be playing very well under Hakstol's system and if he continues to do so then he should be given a look at an extension, not a break the bank contract. Whatever happens, I want the NMC clauses stricken from ANY contract given henceforth from the Flyers management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 he's going to want a big contract, if that happens hextall has to trade him, i think he's going to be traded regardless because of what ghost brings to this team that schenn doesnt, mobile and an offensive punch. if schenn stays here, when streit comes back, they have no cap and ghost gets sent back down.You can't replace Schenn's skill set with an offensive defenseman so I don't get the replace Schenn with Ghost. They play completely different games and teams have needs for both types. Although It has been a long time since the Flyers have seen a young d-man with Ghost's skills and they have been sorely missed since Dejardins left. Yes the Ghost needs to stay and play but if Schenn continues his current playing level then he is earning the right to stay also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 You can't replace Schenn's skill set with an offensive defenseman so I don't get the replace Schenn with Ghost. They play completely different games and teams have needs for both types. Although It has been a long time since the Flyers have seen a young d-man with Ghost's skills and they have been sorely missed since Dejardins left. Yes the Ghost needs to stay and play but if Schenn continues his current playing level then he is earning the right to stay also. this is the problem i have with that statement, every player that plays great for one year, they get rewarded then they start playing like crap. schenn is going to want more money, that's the bottom line. he's not worth it. i would take my changes on the younger d man we have now than having another overpaid dman that plays like mcdud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 @briere48 Going forward, the team has Ghost, Sanheim and Zot who are offensive Dmen. They are going to need guys who can help the goalies in front of their own net. Provorov plays a solid 2 way game. Morin will hopefully become a beast defensively. Schenn can also help there. You can't have a blueline made up of all guys 19-22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 it seems to me like now that he's finally getting it, the flyers will deal him at the deadline, just when he's about to pay off. That would be unfortunate. He just turned 26, he's hitting his prime. He's gotten better every year. He's cut down quite a bit on the positional mistakes and he's developed some offensive awareness. He's finally playing within himself - my big gripe with him was he always tried to do too much. He deserves a raise - at $3.6mil he's a bargain and everybody knows the market - if he tests it - will offer him more. The Flyers should go to $18mil over 4 years. That's fair imho and anything under that will be a great deal for the Flyers. I also don't really know how much we'll miss him with the talent that is in the pipeline To replace LSchenn he'll have to be a stay-at-home, hard-hitting guy. That rules out Gost and Sanheim, Hagg too I think. Do we have anyone besides Morin who fits that description? Obviously we can always trade for help once some of the albatross contracts expire but an experienced 2nd-pair D-man will probably cost ~$4mil / year anyway. I say if LSchenn is happy playing for the Flyers and his teammates are happy with him we could do worse than keeping him at $4.5/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackhole Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I don't think $3.6 is really a bargain for luke. His play has improved, however, he's been an in and out of the lineup 3rd pair d-man basically his whole tenure here (that being the flyers D, keep in mind). I don't go north of 4 mil for that.That said, if what I'm seeing is what I'm actually getting, I would try to retain him at a reasonable rate. If not, it's the TD for him. I don't think the FA market is going gangbusters for him at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 he's going to want a big contract, if that happens hextall has to trade him, i think he's going to be traded regardless because of what ghost brings to this team that schenn doesnt, mobile and an offensive punch. if schenn stays here, when streit comes back, they have no cap and ghost gets sent back down.Do you understand anything about hockey? I know he not a euro defenseman but yeesh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Would you rather have Gudas or Schenn? I would rather pay cheaper money to Gudas frankly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I wasn't sure if this was a real thread. I'd have to go back to the thread...."The Human Erasor", welcome Luke Schenn. I've always been Team Luke, have him watching my back. Didn't catch any of the pass 4 games o so, too bad I missed the last one. He has an offensive untapped side of him, that can throw an opponemt off, would like to see it more often. A recipe for his success th formula Diet x (figure skating + speed skating + Pilates) = Success as a Top Defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Would you rather have Gudas or Schenn? I would rather pay cheaper money to Gudas frankly...Gudas has a little bit of that Rinaldo tendency to take stupid ass penalties for no good reason. That said, he's more energetic on his feet and doesn't get marginalized as frequently or as easily as Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I don't think $3.6 is really a bargain for luke. His play has improved, however, he's been an in and out of the lineup 3rd pair d-man basically his whole tenure here (that being the flyers D, keep in mind). I don't go north of 4 mil for that.That said, if what I'm seeing is what I'm actually getting, I would try to retain him at a reasonable rate. If not, it's the TD for him. I don't think the FA market is going gangbusters for him at this point.You may be right but I believe he'll get offers that start at 4mil per year and will probably tip out at 5mil. My thing is he seems to fit pretty well with the Flyers and he's better every year. Like I say we could do worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 schenn is going to want more money, that's the bottom line "want," sure. "will get," is less clear. if there is no trade market for him, then there isn't a FA market for him, either. he could tell the flyers that he wants a bazillion dollars, but he'll only get that if someone is willing to give it to him. it doesn't sound like that is the case. if he finishes the season with ~20 points and a negative +/-, he is going to have a hard time making an argument for a raise. will probably want a raise, but ultimately will want an NHL contract. which means he'll have to take what he can get. so long as hextall doesn't get stupid and has a clear read on schenn's market value, i can't see him getting much more than he gets now, if any. and i'm ok with him at that price for 3 or 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 You may be right but I believe he'll get offers that start at 4mil per year and will probably tip out at 5mil. i don't know why that would be. a career high of 22 points, and a net -26. who would be putting a ~$5mil value on him? this isn't a flakey offensive dman that might smokescreen some GMs with big point totals. this is a defensive 4/5 guy who hasn't exactly shocked the world with his effectiveness. he got his last deal based on the last remains of his draft day potential at age 22. he's 26 now. high draft pick potential is no longer a consideration. he doesn't bring the kind of skill set that generally commands big paydays. no one is looking at him thinking he might change the overall tenor of their blueline for the good, and is thus worth big money. my guess is he either ends up right where he is now, or might even end up taking a pay cut. he is what he is, and i don't think anyone has illusions about that. nor that he might suddenly become something entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Interesting. Well I think you're undervaluing him. He's no game-changer but he's become a sturdy, reliable D-man who will expect and imho get a raise. Sure 5mil is too much but I can't see him signing for less than 4mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Gudas has a little bit of that Rinaldo tendency to take stupid ass penalties for no good reason. That said, he's more energetic on his feet and doesn't get marginalized as frequently or as easily as Luke. agreed... that penalty he took the other night when we are already short on defense was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sure 5mil is too much but I can't see him signing for less than 4mil.I think there is some merit to your argument when you add in the "MacDud Clause." I also agree he has been playing pretty good hockey as of late.Honestly, if he is asking for 4M I am not going to extend him. If he is a 4-5M dman then he should have some trade value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sharks have apparently inquired about him. Not surprising given Braun being out with an infection and Tennyson stinking up the joint on bottom pair now bumped to 2nd pair with Demelo being a call up. But I doubt he has much market value. UFA, prone to positional errors and stuck as bottom pair guy. His draft pedigree is no longer a factor. He won't command any 1st, 2nd round picks or more than C level prospects. And quite frankly, Sharks need an offensive guy, not a 5th Defensive guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Interesting. Well I think you're undervaluing him. He's no game-changer but he's become a sturdy, reliable D-man who will expect and imho get a raise. Sure 5mil is too much but I can't see him signing for less than 4mil. maybe. i think on schenn's best day to date, dennis seidenberg would be about the most realistic favorable comparable, so I could see a $4mil cap hit again. i can't see anyone saying he is better than seidenberg and should deserve more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.