Are the Habs planning to Tank?

[WordsOfWisdom]

14 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Not to mention the fact that their dominance of the 1970s came courtesy of the NHL Board of Governors allowing them to write the expansion rules to suit themselves.

 

Interesting. What did they do?  

[AJgoal]

Maybe they'll fire Therrien, keep Plekanec, win the draft lottery, and rattle off 4-5 cups in a decade and retake the record from the Yankees.

 

One can hope, anyway.

[JR Ewing]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Interesting. What did they do?  

 

Long post, but there's no quick way to tell the tale...

 

 

When the NHL decided it was time to expand, the expansion committee (which really was just Clarence Campbell) decided that the person who would do the best job at creating the expansion draft rules would be Sam Pollock. We have to stop and think about this for a moment: they put a GM in charge of setting the rule about which players he and his competitors would have to give up. It would be the same as if the league expanded today, but they left it all up to Ken Holland. Whose interests do you think he'd be looking out for? Mind boggling, but that's the NHL for you.

 

Before draft day 1967, the NHL had decided that each of the Original 6 teams could protect 11 skaters, 1 goalie and 1 junior-aged player who had been signed the year before (and even that had been bumped up from 8-1-1). Pollock's "problem" was that the Habs had a huge network of players in their minor league system, and he knew a lot of those guys would go. Hell, at this time, they had two AHL and two WHL teams... Four minor pro. Unreal.

 

Did he want those players picked by other teams? Oh hell yes.

 

Pollock looked up and down his and his 5 other competitor's rosters, the players' ages and pro experience, and then drafted rules to create a huge exemption for himself: players who had played professionally for the first time in the 1966–67 season were ineligible from being picked until their team had filled their protected list with at least two goaltenders and eighteen other players.

 

Due to the size of the Habs farm system, it was their players being picked more than any of the other Original 6 teams, and he knew it would be that way. By the time the 10 round had gone by, Pollock didn't even have to bother protecting guys like Serge Savard or Rogie Vachon. Pollock was able to sit on all of his best young and prime-aged players, while mostly just giving up 3rd and 4th liners.  Nobody was really choosing the other teams' guys, but for the key pieces. So, BOOM! The Bruins lose Bernie Parent, completely unable to protect him. Boom! The Hawks were basically cleaned out.

 

Pollock's amendment allowed him to keep every single one of his best prospects while his competitors all lost some of theirs.

---

Aside from all of this, Pollock colluded with other GMs. From the book "Behind the Moves", Frank Selke Jr:
 

Quote

 

Sam Pollock offered me Carol Vadnais before the Intra-League draft. He was playing for Sam in the minor leagues. Sam said “I can leave him off the protected list on the proviso that when I want him back, whether it is next year or two years or what, I get him.” Bill Torrey and I were together at this time and we figured ‘how can we lose?’ So we said “sure, we’ll take him, Sam.” So we got Carol and he played like gangbusters. Sam comes to us at the end of the year and says “I can use him now.” I said “well Sam, we can’t just return him. We’ve got to get something for him. He’s our best player, he’s what we’re selling in Oakland.”

 

Well Sam was in our suite at the annual meetings and he’s……chewing on his tie……“well, what would you want?” “We’d need someone like Bobby Rousseau” “You can’t have Rousseau” “Well, we need somebody like this” “You can’t have that.” So then I said to Sam “Well I guess that being the case  you can’t have Carol.” Sam said “You made a deal!” I said “would you like me to go to Mr. Campbell and tell him that we colluded with you to hide a player?” He (Sam) said “you wouldn’t do that” and I said “well, I’d do it before I’d lose Vadnais.” He got up and walked out and that was it, but those were the kinds of things Sam did.

 

 

Another General Manager is here, telling us about how, after Pollock created ineligibility rules to protect his team the most, conspired with other GMs to not give up the little bits he stood to lose.

 

The expansion teams, particularly in California, where there was nothing resembling a hockey market, were in trouble, and it helped make for desperate GMs. They needed NHL players they could sell to the public, and since Pollock was neck deep in actual NHL players and swimming in the filth of outstanding young prospects that he didn't have to lose on draft day, starting unloading decent players for high picks.  From 1969 to 1974, the Habs had 17-1st round picks and 8-2nd rounders. In '72, they had 4 of the first 14 picks, and in 1974, they had 5 of the first 15 picks.

 

Just look at some of these deals:

-June 11, 1968 trades Gerry Desjardins to Los Angeles for the Kings first round picks in 1969 and 1972 (Steve Shutt)

-January 23, 1970 trades Dick Duff to Los Angeles for Dennis Hextall and the Kings second round pick in 1971 (Larry Robinson).

-May 22, 1970 trades Francois Lacombe and cash to California for the Golden Seals 1st round pick (Guy Lafleur).

-May 29, 1973 trades Bob Murdoch and Randy Rota to Los Angeles for cash and the Kings first round pick in 1974 (Mario Tremblay).

 

I'm sure there's some that I'm forgetting, but you get the idea.

 

But hey, none of this should be a surprise by now: this league was re-formed from the NHA to get rid of a pain in the ass owner. From NHL really equaling Norris House League for about three decades, to letting a GM write the rules his competitors would live by, it's always been a bit of a bush league.

 

I'm tired of hearing about how the 70s Habs are the greatest team ever. They should be. After all, their General Manager was given carte blanche to set up things in his own favor.

 

TLDR - Sam Pollock was given the right to create expansion draft rules which served his team above all others. He colluded with other GMs to help protect the players he wanted and created a sort of desperation among the expansion GMs which allowed him pick the bones for what he wanted. It ended up making the results of much of the 1970s kind of a joke.

[WordsOfWisdom]

@JR Ewing:

 

Great post!  That's amazing that a scenario like that could have existed. Total conflict of interest.

 

I've been disappointed that the NHL has always been behind the other pro sports leagues in terms of management, business sense, integrity, marketing, etc. They usually copy what the other leagues do, afraid to go their own way. What you posted above is another stunning example of how the NHL doesn't think things through before they act. 

 

 

[JR Ewing]

5 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

@JR Ewing:

 

Great post!  That's amazing that a scenario like that could have existed. Total conflict of interest.

 

I've been disappointed that the NHL has always been behind the other pro sports leagues in terms of management, business sense, integrity, marketing, etc. They usually copy what the other leagues do, afraid to go their own way. What you posted above is another stunning example of how the NHL doesn't think things through before they act. 

 

 

 

This is the NHL... Just the way it is.

 

• Integrity? For awhile there, the Bruce Norris owned the Red Wings, while his brother James co-owned the Black Hawks (two words back then...). James also owned Madison Square Garden, quietly giving him controlling interest in the Rangers as well, and 3 of the NHL's 6 buildings. Arenas proved to be lucrative to James Norris, who ended up owning a network of arenas across the US, filling it with the usuals of trade shows, Ice Capades and boxing matches. Fun bit of info: Norris and Arthur Wirtz formed the IBC, and started promoting boxing cards out of his arenas, most notably MSG, and in short order had a complete stranglehold on championship boxing matches. This was problematic for Norris, as he had founded the IBC to create the perception that he really wasn't monopolizing professional boxing in the US. He ended up stepping aside as IBC President, and the promotion was quickly purchased... by Madison Square Garden Group, which (of course) was owned by James Norris himself. In the end, the IBC was declared a monopoly and ordered to be dissolved, with Norris selling his interests in 1959. Soon after, the Senate subcommittee into organized crime found that the IBC had numerous underworld ties to mobsters like Frankie Carbo, Lucky Luciano, and lots of other scary guys. Fortunate that Norris was lucky enough to sell out before the hammer came down, eh? Integrity? NHL? Hmm...
• This is the same league which decided it was better to get out of their TV deal with CBS after the 1959 season because they thought it was too much of a headache for travel and because they didn't want to share one penny of revenue with the players. CBS wanted to make the NHL the centerpiece of their new tv sports package, and approached the league to continue the deal they'd had from 1955 to 1959, making the league the game of the week for both Saturday and Sunday. When the NHL balked, CBS turned to the NFL instead. By the time the league decided they wanted a cut of this TV money the NFL was bathing luxuriously in, the networks told them to get lost.

[BluPuk]

It's funny that the NHL promotes parity as a good thing. Parity is not a good thing. It's boring. It's frustrating. Like that horrible dream where you're running like hell away from some scary thing, but no matter how hard you try, no matter how fast you run , you're not moving. No teams can get any traction. Everybody hates parity, what they really want, if they'd admit it, is one or two dominant teams. Somebody to hate on, OR, the chance for your team to either be, or to become dominant. There is just about zero chance of that now. Parity sucks!! Is there parity in the NFL? NO. It's boring.

 

Let the chips fall where they may, and may the BEST management put together the BEST team. Look at the "World Cup" of hockey. The NHL doesn't even want that contest to actually be best-on-best, and they have the pretentious gall to brand it as that!! Do they think us hockey fans don't see what they're doing? 

 

Ok rant over. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

54 minutes ago, BluPuk said:

It's funny that the NHL promotes parity as a good thing. Parity is not a good thing. It's boring. It's frustrating. Like that horrible dream where you're running like hell away from some scary thing, but no matter how hard you try, no matter how fast you run , you're not moving. No teams can get any traction. Everybody hates parity, what they really want, if they'd admit it, is one or two dominant teams. Somebody to hate on, OR, the chance for your team to either be, or to become dominant. There is just about zero chance of that now. Parity sucks!! Is there parity in the NFL? NO. It's boring.

 

Let the chips fall where they may, and may the BEST management put together the BEST team. Look at the "World Cup" of hockey. The NHL doesn't even want that contest to actually be best-on-best, and they have the pretentious gall to brand it as that!! Do they think us hockey fans don't see what they're doing? 

 

Ok rant over. 

 

Agreed. There is no difference between the teams any more. The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, and Keith. The Leafs have Bozak, JVR, and Phaneuf. That's the only reason Chicago is 1st and Toronto is 30th. It comes down to ONE LINE worth of players. The rest of the players don't matter because they're all the same. 

 

With the salary cap, every team essentially has one genuine first line player and two guys they wish they could get rid of for something better. The top teams have two genuine first liners (to create a scoring duo) and one filler guy on the wing. Top teams have one really good defenceman, a second good defenceman, and then four filler guys. The average team has five filler guys and one good guy.

 

Thus, every team you play is essentially the same. 

 

 

[BluPuk]

I just heard a rumor that Price is done for the season. If that is the case the Habs may well tank to improve their draft position. I hope he's OK..

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, BluPuk said:

I just heard a rumor that Price is done for the season. If that is the case the Habs may well tank to improve their draft position. I hope he's OK..

 

Need a starting goalie? We have a starting goalie that needs your help!

 

..... AND HIS NAME IS JONATHAN BERNIER!!!!!!!!  

 

GET BERNIER ON YOUR NHL CLUB TODAY AS PART OF AN MLSE TRADE SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER SCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

 

 

(This joke requires context. See John Cena phone scam for details.)

[JagerMeister]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 5:50 AM, BluPuk said:

It's funny that the NHL promotes parity as a good thing. Parity is not a good thing. It's boring. It's frustrating. Like that horrible dream where you're running like hell away from some scary thing, but no matter how hard you try, no matter how fast you run , you're not moving. No teams can get any traction. Everybody hates parity, what they really want, if they'd admit it, is one or two dominant teams. Somebody to hate on, OR, the chance for your team to either be, or to become dominant. There is just about zero chance of that now. Parity sucks!! Is there parity in the NFL? NO. It's boring.

 

Let the chips fall where they may, and may the BEST management put together the BEST team. Look at the "World Cup" of hockey. The NHL doesn't even want that contest to actually be best-on-best, and they have the pretentious gall to brand it as that!! Do they think us hockey fans don't see what they're doing? 

 

Ok rant over. 

 

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 7:02 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Agreed. There is no difference between the teams any more. The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, and Keith. The Leafs have Bozak, JVR, and Phaneuf. That's the only reason Chicago is 1st and Toronto is 30th. It comes down to ONE LINE worth of players. The rest of the players don't matter because they're all the same. 

 

With the salary cap, every team essentially has one genuine first line player and two guys they wish they could get rid of for something better. The top teams have two genuine first liners (to create a scoring duo) and one filler guy on the wing. Top teams have one really good defenceman, a second good defenceman, and then four filler guys. The average team has five filler guys and one good guy.

 

Thus, every team you play is essentially the same. 

 

 

This is what being a maple leafs fan does to you folks......

 

 

 

 

You discover the truth.

[J0e Th0rnton]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Need a starting goalie? We have a starting goalie that needs your help!

 

..... AND HIS NAME IS JONATHAN BERNIER!!!!!!!!  

 

GET BERNIER ON YOUR NHL CLUB TODAY AS PART OF AN MLSE TRADE SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER SCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

 

 

(This joke requires context. See John Cena phone scam for details.)

Requires the theme music to be playing in the background too

 

Edit, ill just put the actual vid in

[WordsOfWisdom]

4 hours ago, JagerMeister said:

 

This is what being a maple leafs fan does to you folks......

 

 

 

 

You discover the truth.

 

Someone should do a MEME with that bald kid from the movie the Matrix involving the Leafs. 

 

Example:

 

"Don't try and win the Cup, that's impossible...."

 

[J0e Th0rnton]

On 2016-02-04 at 7:49 AM, J0e Th0rnton said:

 

 

Oh look. Therrien is still not fired.

Christ almighty, how often will the french Canadian coach play favorites with the french Canadian Center? Desharnais is a 3rd line C who can play 2nd in a pinch. but Therrien plays favorites with him like nobody else on the team. Even Habs fans say "PLAY HIM AS A 3RD LINE C YOU IDIOT"

Apparently Therrien thinks DD is "Davey franchise". 1st PP time all year with nothing to show for it.

Hilarious that Bergevin is demanding Galchenyuk be given C time all summer and the coach is blatantly ignoring him.

 

For a good time, go to the pregame thread the habs fans have going on hfboards for the flyers/habs game hahaha

 

They are imploding.

 

 

 

if I were Plekanec, i would want out too

 

subban is laughing at you therrien, not with you in that video

Hey look! Therrien's boy Desharnais, who gets top icetime and PP time specifically because he is also french(Does not score on the PP or play defense well) is injured. For months I have been watching him reduce, cut and cull any chances Galchenyuk had. He just hates the guy. But now he has no choice but to use him as a top 6 Center, and BOOM. Galchenyuk becomes the first hab since Beliveau to have X many multigoal games in X time.

 

Therrien needs to be fired.

[J0e Th0rnton]

And the other place is still churning out awesome quotes from the Habs section LOL.

 

Quote

I think the Melnick interview with Bergevin, where he pressed him on the issue, might have played a role here.

All Melnick did was try to get some simple logic through this man's thick brain.
So...Is the Galchenyuk experiment to center over seeing how you said you wanted him to play there before the season started and after a couple months he's now at the wing..Nope, we still believe he can play center, we just used him there cuz we were losing. Okay, so you still want him at center...the team is practically out of the POs...nothing is really happening with him on the wing...Here's a completely, completely crazy idea..why don't you use the last 20ish games at center and develop him considering we're out of POs anyways..?..
Bergevin's answer..listen at the end of the day we're the ones that will evaluate him and we'll see how it goes.
What visionary this Bergy!! The Great Hobo!

He probably went back in his office, got on the phone, called his posse, discussed the idea, went through with it, and now they're tapping each other on their backs for doing a fine development job.
What a joke.

 

Quote

He's by far the worst coach I've ever seen. Worse than Carbo by far.

It's one thing to make mistakes and have bad systems etc... but to use our best players in limited roles while promoting bad ones. I've never seen anything like it. People can point to Darche all they want but I've never seen something nearly as extreme as what MT has done over the years. He's absolutely awful and I won't be surprised at all if Chuck gets demoted when DD comes back.

 

Quote

Let's be honest,

If not for DD's injury Galcheyuk would most likely not have had 1st line minutes through the end of DD's current contract, and plausibly longer.

Quote

That has nothing to do with blind hate, it has everything to do with frustration. Because of this frustration, people belittle and ridicule him, welcome to humanity.
Nobody here actually believes DD is the illegitimate son of Therrien. They make fun of him by calling DD his son because there's no rational explanation to using DD as much as he has. None.
I mean, there is one, but people can't actually believe it. They cannot actually believe Therrien feels DD is his best offensive center.

To think that Galchenyuk only got this opportunity late in the season, when playoff hopes are dashed and when injuries hit the team. Says a lot about how much of a tight leash Therrien has exercised on his most talented forward. Unfortunately, management is asleep, Therrien won't be held accountable for any of it.

 

Quote

Therrien did the same thing with Subban, people seem to have forgotten.
When Subban came back from holding out in 12-13, Therrien decided to use him on the 3rd pairing with Bouillon and gave him the 2nd PP wave behind Markov-Diaz.
It wasn't until Diaz got injured that he finally gave PK more ice time.
He wont the Norris, and the following season, Therrien still preferred using guys like Bouillon or even Murray, arguably the worst Dman in the NHL, for the last 5 min to protect a lead. It was absolutely insane.
According to this ridiculous coach, Norris winning Subban was more of a liability than the worst Dman in the NHL. I still can't believe this guy did this.
Put Subban on and the play usually ends in the offensive zone, put Murray on the ice and it's like we're on the PK...

What a moron this coach. He was already terrible before this year. Somehow though, he survived one of the worse collapse in Habs history. Michel freaking Therrien, couldn't get fired despite this terrible stretch...I have zero faith in this management group.

Quote

This is just maddening reasoning. Let me get this straight:

1.) Everyone but Therrien is saying ''play Galchenyuk more and give him better linemates.''

2.) Injuries force Therrien to play Galchenyuk more and with better linemates.

3.) Galchenyuk does what everyone except Therrien thought he would do with those minutes and linemates.

4.) Therrien's a developmental genius.


How does 1-3 support 4, in any way, shape, form, or notion?

 

[jammer2]

 I dunno if the Habs are really tanking, but last night, they had a whopping 11 regulars out of their line up. That means 11 players from St.John's of the AHL inserted into the lineup. With all these unGodly injuries, Carey Price likely shut down for the season AND Mike Condon looking like a rook.....Timber Me Scrivins (don't ask, it's just what I call him...ha ha) as his back up....the cards are all adding up to a top 10 pick. This kid, Pierre Luc Dubois, a converted winger who now plays center could be the long lost #1 center the Habs have been searching for since Jacques Lemaire centered the Donut line....(yep, nothing in the middle LOL). Kid can score and plays a sound defensive game, sounds like a Habs pick to me....and French to boot....from the QMJHL.

 

 

 

 

  http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/pierre-luc-dubois/23450/

[radoran]

37 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 I dunno if the Habs are really tanking, but last night, they had a whopping 11 regulars out of their line up. That means 11 players from St.John's of the AHL inserted into the lineup.

 

And they still won't call up the NHL All Star MVP.

 

Clearly they are tanking.

 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, jammer2 said:

 I dunno if the Habs are really tanking, but last night, they had a whopping 11 regulars out of their line up. That means 11 players from St.John's of the AHL inserted into the lineup. With all these unGodly injuries, Carey Price likely shut down for the season AND Mike Condon looking like a rook.....Timber Me Scrivins (don't ask, it's just what I call him...ha ha) as his back up....the cards are all adding up to a top 10 pick. This kid, Pierre Luc Dubois, a converted winger who now plays center could be the long lost #1 center the Habs have been searching for since Jacques Lemaire centered the Donut line....(yep, nothing in the middle LOL). Kid can score and plays a sound defensive game, sounds like a Habs pick to me....and French to boot....from the QMJHL.

 

 

 

 

  http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/pierre-luc-dubois/23450/

 

Dubois is ours! (ok, probably not)

[J0e Th0rnton]

On 2016-03-12 at 1:13 PM, jammer2 said:

 I dunno if the Habs are really tanking, but last night, they had a whopping 11 regulars out of their line up. That means 11 players from St.John's of the AHL inserted into the lineup. With all these unGodly injuries, Carey Price likely shut down for the season AND Mike Condon looking like a rook.....Timber Me Scrivins (don't ask, it's just what I call him...ha ha) as his back up....the cards are all adding up to a top 10 pick. This kid, Pierre Luc Dubois, a converted winger who now plays center could be the long lost #1 center the Habs have been searching for since Jacques Lemaire centered the Donut line....(yep, nothing in the middle LOL). Kid can score and plays a sound defensive game, sounds like a Habs pick to me....and French to boot....from the QMJHL.

 

 

 

 

  http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/pierre-luc-dubois/23450/

Now that Desharnais has been injured, forcing Therrien to play Galchenyuk instead of favoring his illegitimate son, Galchenyuk is looking like the long lost #1 C they have been waiting for.

[BluPuk]

13 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Now that Desharnais has been injured, forcing Therrien to play Galchenyuk instead of favoring his illegitimate son, Galchenyuk is looking like the long lost #1 C they have been waiting for.

 

Every team in the NHL is on the razor's edge. One player can make such a huge difference in a team's performance. Nobody in the NHL has any depth. Doesn't that tell us something? It speaks to me...

 

And they are considering expansion. I vote for explosion....

[jammer2]

On 3/15/2016 at 6:39 PM, J0e Th0rnton said:

Now that Desharnais has been injured, forcing Therrien to play Galchenyuk instead of favoring his illegitimate son, Galchenyuk is looking like the long lost #1 C they have been waiting for.

 

 Gally has just been on fire the last few weeks, something like 9 goals in 5 or 6 games. He has responded like a champ to the increased ice time. Should have been this way all along, he has WAY more natural talent than Deharnais.

[MadDevil]

I have to say, thank you Bergevin for Devante Smith-Pelly. 7 goals and 10 points in 9 games as a Devil. He's already done more for the Devils than Matteau ever did.

[BluPuk]

He is a top-notch talent in the right atmosphere. He will do well in NJ. Probably couldn't speak french....