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Game 4: RWs at Rangers--ROBBERY!


SpikeDDS

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Holy crap, did Jimmy Howard ever steal this game! What an incredible performance by Howard! He sure does like to play hockey at MSG. He often plays his best hockey in that building. Well done. Two points we had NO business getting.

Which leads us to talk about the rest of the team. What a horribly played defense we played in this game! Not only did the Rangers catch our D with its pants down, we are wearing pink and white polka dotted bikini briefs! They repeatedly strode right by our Dmen as if they were standing still. (Were they standing still?  Sometimes I don't see things when they don't move.) The Rangers' speed is VERY impressive. I thought the Red Wings had speed until I watched last night's game. The Rangers have more speed than we do. That team had to be shaking their heads wondering how they could have lost this game. I mean, Jimmy Howard was in goal. Or was that a wall? Whatever or whoever it was, it was the only reason our D didn't get laughed out of MSG. Houston--or should I say Holland--we have a problem. I don't think we will be able to stay above the line with this D core.

 

The Glendening line may have been our best line of the night. Glendening's game is on full display here of late. He is winning puck battles, getting into opposing players' heads, and, it turns out, making slick passes. That feed to Miller for the game winner was Datsyukian. Miller was also a factor more than just his score. The PK played lights out. BOTH units. Glenny and Miller lead on that. A long 5-on-3 defended as well as it can be...

 

Wait, I take that back, because the New York Rangers defended an even longer one and the Red Wings looked COMPLETELY INEPT just trying to ENTER THE OFFESIVE ZONE! I was very afraid that the Rangers would take the momentum from that kill and score. Jimmy Howard made me wrong on that. But if there was a time this season which showed how much we miss Pavel Datsyuk, it was that 1:23 of 5-on-3 hockey when we looked like the Keystone Kops just trying to get the puck into the O zone, much less set up for a shot. Oh, and in the face off circle. Ugh! That's the part that's gonna keep reminding us more than anything else moving forward.

 

This continuing trend where we allow a 2:1 shot ratio...we cannot expect to win using that formula. We cannot expect Mrazek and Howard to play like this consistently. They won't. Eventually they will come back down to earth. Let's just say this: Had it not been for Jimmy Howard's performance in goal, not only would we have lost this game, we would have been talking about it like we talked about the Florida game. Not even close! One of those games you want to forget. But no, now if we are somehow close to the line as the playoff race is in full swing, we must remember these two points.

 

Bottom line, I agree with the NBC panel in NHL Overtime that Holland is going to have to make a move to get a Dman, or we aren't gonna make the playoffs. 

 

Somebody better be buying Jimmy Howard a steak dinner with several tasty beverages after this one. My only regret was that I would have loved to hear Ken Daniels on any of Howard's fantastic saves yell, "ROBBERY!" Love that call!

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I was writing up the game and you beat me to it, quite a few shared thoughts.....

 

Howard-WOW what a night. After the tip in by Zibinejad one minute in I thought, well this is going to be ugly but Howard stepped up in a big time way and played his heart out. More on that later.

 

  Our defense, good lord how many breakaways and wide open shots did we give up? Early in the second trailing by one while on the PP first Grabner had a breakway followed thirty seconds later by a two on none where both Nash and Zuccarello fired point blank followed twenty seconds later where defenseman McDonough got in all alone and fired point blank as well. That sequence, all within less than a minute was the game. Howard stole two points plain and simple.

  I do give credit to the P/K where we aggressively defended our own end, Helm and Athanasiou are a great match and obviously Glendening and Miller work extremely well. Good to see us not just lie back and wait for the other team to pressure and toss it out to center ice, instead we carried the puck a fair amount while a man down. That was the most impressive thing about the team.

  Okay Howard.

I have a dream, granted likely a pipe dream that we shop Howard to the Kings for whatever, a bucket of used pucks, a Marcel Dionne autographed stick, whatever, eating part of his salary. Last night was an audition game in my opinion, the Kings have lost Quick for at least three months, Zatkoff is getting rocked nightly and the Kings will need to get it right soon. Coreau is a late bloomer in GR and would be an adequate backup playing 20 games a year.

  With the salary saved we then make a move for either Trouba or Fowler.

 One game does not turn Howard into Sawchuk but the Kings are desperate and Howard would be a great fit for them and like I said, in the salary cap era you take your moves when and if you can get them.

 

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@SpikeDDS

 

I just rewatched the final five minutes of the game and noticed a few things:

 

With the game on the line they took AA off the checking line and paired Helm with Miller/Glendening and it worked really well. That is an advantage of having a player like Helm who can bounce up and down the lines.

 

 The other thing, over the last five minutes the defense played awfully tough, the only shot that I saw actually get through towards the end was a low percentage shot from Klein just inside the blueline which Howard easily turned aside. Other than that, we got gritty towards the end, bodies and sticks in every lane we actually defended extremely well down the stretch.

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@SpikeDDS

@yave1964

 

Robbery is right!  Without Howard playing the way he did, that game could have easily have been 6-1.  I couldn't believe that 5-on-3...couldn't even crack the zone.  We got maybe one shot during the whole power play?  Once again however, our points came from Nielsen and Vanek, with extra help from Glendening and Helm.  Glad to see Miller make the scoresheet too.  Perfect opportunity and he buried it!

 

I think I'm getting a little tired of Brendan Smith though.  He always appears to be a half step behind the play and chasing to catch up, especially with the Rags' speed last night!  The D is bad all around.  I didn't count, but the Rags had, what, 8-9 breakaways?  If by some miracle we land Trouba or Fowler, I think Brendan Smith should be the one to go.  

 

I can't knock the game too much though.  It was WAAAAY better than watching the debate!  :eyeroll:

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6 hours ago, yave1964 said:

@SpikeDDS

 

I just rewatched the final five minutes of the game and noticed a few things:

 

With the game on the line they took AA off the checking line and paired Helm with Miller/Glendening and it worked really well. That is an advantage of having a player like Helm who can bounce up and down the lines.

 

 The other thing, over the last five minutes the defense played awfully tough, the only shot that I saw actually get through towards the end was a low percentage shot from Klein just inside the blueline which Howard easily turned aside. Other than that, we got gritty towards the end, bodies and sticks in every lane we actually defended extremely well down the stretch.

I know.

 

It's not that they can't do it. They just can't do it for 60 minutes. Heck, they only did it for about 10 minutes in this game and got away with it. But anyone who has watched hockey for more than a week will tell you that that's not a winning formula at this level. We may steal one like this, but we play like we did last night for much of this season  and we will be looking up at the line, seeing it in the distance.

 

I did see the Helm switch. It WAS better. AA is not yet to Darren Helm's level. He needs more time and experience, even if he is faster--which may or may not be true. Helm seems to be a different player so far this year and in a VERY good way. I have said it before many times that I REALLY like him as a player. Just think his contract was too much for too long--especially the too long part. But I will have no regrets if Darren wants to play like he is now for the next 5 seasons. :-) 

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14 hours ago, yave1964 said:

I was writing up the game and you beat me to it, quite a few shared thoughts.....

 

Howard-WOW what a night. After the tip in by Zibinejad one minute in I thought, well this is going to be ugly but Howard stepped up in a big time way and played his heart out. More on that later.

 

 

  Okay Howard.

I have a dream, granted likely a pipe dream that we shop Howard to the Kings for whatever, a bucket of used pucks, a Marcel Dionne autographed stick, whatever, eating part of his salary. Last night was an audition game in my opinion, the Kings have lost Quick for at least three months, Zatkoff is getting rocked nightly and the Kings will need to get it right soon. Coreau is a late bloomer in GR and would be an adequate backup playing 20 games a year.

  With the salary saved we then make a move for either Trouba or Fowler.

 One game does not turn Howard into Sawchuk but the Kings are desperate and Howard would be a great fit for them and like I said, in the salary cap era you take your moves when and if you can get them.

 

 

IF this happens, I think it'll be more likely to get Fowler than Trouba. The Jets seem to me to be content to sit on Trouba and wait for him to flinch first. They also seem to be VERY particular about what they want in return for him, and we don't have what they are asking for. If the Jets keep winning like they did last night--what a comeback, eh?--they won't have much reason to cave to Trouba's demands until they get something close to what they want in return for him. I think we would have a better shot at Fowler.

 

This, of course, is still a big IF. But if the Kings keep losing and Jimmy keeps standing on his head, it could happen, even though we might end up retaining some of his cap hit as part of the deal. Hopefully not too much, but probably some. Bottom line is that nothing bad comes from Jimmy Howard standing on his head for a bit.

 

I have seen enough of Coreau to say that he would be a fine backup. I know he's not as big as, say Rinne, but he LOOKS that big to me. Howard and Mrazek look like shrimps in comparison. And I guess I have to agree with the ladies: size does matter. Sorry @yave1964! ;-P

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@SpikeDDS

 

There is indication that the Ducks would want Anthony Mantha in return for Fowler.  Given what we've seen on the ice so far this season (and assuming it's a straight-up, one-for-one deal) would you take it?  We have other kids on the forward who have at least demonstrated an affinity for scoring AND our defense is in true need.  

 

Whaddaya think?

 

Personally?  I would.  

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10 minutes ago, WingNut722 said:

@SpikeDDS

 

There is indication that the Ducks would want Anthony Mantha in return for Fowler.  Given what we've seen on the ice so far this season (and assuming it's a straight-up, one-for-one deal) would you take it?  We have other kids on the forward who have at least demonstrated an affinity for scoring AND our defense is in true need.  

 

Whaddaya think?

 

Personally?  I would.  

 

I would too. We need D more than we need another forward. I know it might mean regret later if Mantha blossoms, but so long as Fowler isn't short term, having a better D-core helps the team in the long run more. If we had a very promising Dman in development, that would be different. We don't. I say make that move if it is available.

 

I like Mantha though, so it IS a tough call. See my posts from the end of last year if there is any doubt. And that's kinda why I know it is probably about fair, because I'm torn about it.

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On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, yave1964 said:

I was writing up the game and you beat me to it, quite a few shared thoughts.....

 

Howard-WOW what a night. After the tip in by Zibinejad one minute in I thought, well this is going to be ugly but Howard stepped up in a big time way and played his heart out. More on that later.

 

  Our defense, good lord how many breakaways and wide open shots did we give up? Early in the second trailing by one while on the PP first Grabner had a breakway followed thirty seconds later by a two on none where both Nash and Zuccarello fired point blank followed twenty seconds later where defenseman McDonough got in all alone and fired point blank as well. That sequence, all within less than a minute was the game. Howard stole two points plain and simple.

  I do give credit to the P/K where we aggressively defended our own end, Helm and Athanasiou are a great match and obviously Glendening and Miller work extremely well. Good to see us not just lie back and wait for the other team to pressure and toss it out to center ice, instead we carried the puck a fair amount while a man down. That was the most impressive thing about the team.

  Okay Howard.

I have a dream, granted likely a pipe dream that we shop Howard to the Kings for whatever, a bucket of used pucks, a Marcel Dionne autographed stick, whatever, eating part of his salary. Last night was an audition game in my opinion, the Kings have lost Quick for at least three months, Zatkoff is getting rocked nightly and the Kings will need to get it right soon. Coreau is a late bloomer in GR and would be an adequate backup playing 20 games a year.

  With the salary saved we then make a move for either Trouba or Fowler.

 One game does not turn Howard into Sawchuk but the Kings are desperate and Howard would be a great fit for them and like I said, in the salary cap era you take your moves when and if you can get them.

 

Who wpould the Kings be ready to send back?  Also can they afford to have $10m in goalies next year?

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@Old School Hockey

 

I doubt the return for Howie would be much, a late rounder would be around it, and even then we would have to eat a significant portion of the contract to move him.

  The PAYOFF is in getting cap relief and getting into the sweepstakes for either Fowler or Trouba. @WingNut722 man is that a tough one, but yes, absolutely I would do it. I know the Jets are holding firm in what they want but if both the Ducks and Jets are told that Mantha is the payoff in exchange for being first to the punch, it would likely come together quickly. I HATE the thought of watching Mantha develop and then get dealt, I was blown away the other night watching him in Grand Rapids with a hat trick, all on the power play against former NHLer Alex Stalock and the Iowa Wild. He was a BEAST, an absolute monster, a man among boys. He has developed into the player the Wings hoped he would be, But a chance to add the top d-man who we have needed for so long is to much to resist.

 

  Of course it could only happen if we move Howard. Come on Holland, make it happen.

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@SpikeDDS

 

Thrilled to see Sproul in the lineup tonight, watching his every moment in the ice. His first shift he coughed up the puck and damn near cost us a goal, I about died after talking him up, lol. He is manning the second power play, was a bit tentative but fired a boomer (right handed shot too!) just wide of Rinne. Then with a few minutes to go in the period he pinched in deep like a fourth forward, even going behind the net at one point. Not saying he is Bobby Orr, lol, his skating is his weakness but he knows where the other teams net is and is not afraid to go after it.

  But I am telling you when he coughed up that first goal I almost just turned off the TV, lol.

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Sproul hard low shot, exactly what we need on the PP. GOOOOOAAAALLLLLL!!!

 

He looks a bit lost on defense 5 on 5, I think a lot of that is being paired with Smith and having zero history together. Last season in GR he was paired with another good young player who is extremely active, allowing Sproul to roam. If he remains paired with Smith eventually they will get used to each other.

  Abby's goal, nice job channeling his inner Holmstrom.

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20 hours ago, yave1964 said:

If he remains paired with Smith eventually they will get used to each other.

 

 

And we will probably get used to taking Mylanta! LOL!

 

I thought he seemed to get more comfortable as the game went on. Did you see him make that skate blade save with an otherwise open net? Lucky, but fantastic. Woulda changed the game in a very negative way had that goal gone in.

 

Last night's game was the best the Red Wings have played this season. Honestly, the other games set a pretty low bar, but still a step--and a sizable one--in the right direction. Our shots were so much better. Our playmaking vastly better. We actually had O-zone time.

 

Uh, still need to work on our 5-on-3 PP's though. Egads! Another stinker! At least we are doing OK 5-on4.

 

Miller and Glendening had another pretty good game. Nice shot by Miller with that top corner strike!

 

Balanced scoring. Tats and Nyke got 1 each. They need to get confident. This should help. Tats has been working pretty hard. Nice to see him get rewarded.

 

And how about Dylan the Enforcer putting them in their place, eh? That was fun. He did SURPRISINGLY well, even if it was a scrap with another non-fighter. Place was crazy! LOVE IT! Almost as surprising as when Datsyuk lost the gloves on opening night at the Joe a few years ago. Remember that?

 

Now, on to tonight's game, which will be an even bigger challenge, especially since we just played last night. Howard is in net and deservedly so. Wouldn't expect too many other changes in the lineup tonight. Gotta reward the players and encourage them to keep it up.

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@SpikeDDS

 

Like I put it in the write up of lasts nights game, Sproul at times seemed confused as to where Brendan Smith was going to be, but he should not feel badly, Smith seldom knows himself, lol.

 

  Yeah, saw the shot block, more luck than skill but I would rather be lucky than good any day of the week. Overall I believe he acquitted himself more than adequately and  the combo of size, offensive acumen and the right handed shot is enough to hopefully force his way into the lineup.

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@SpikeDDS

@yave1964

 

I really enjoyed watching those last two games.  The team is pulling together extremely well, all things considered.  Larkin in a fight?  Are you kidding me?  Granted it was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing, but isn't that what Steve Ott was signed for?  Larkin said in his post-game comments that he was laughing in the box after that.  He couldn't believe it either!  Nevertheless, I'm glad the team is starting to look after each other.  Nyquist and Tatar are starting up pretty much the way they should.  

 

Something is obviously different in the locker room and everybody loves it.  It could be all the fresh faces in the coaching staff.  I also wonder if Jimmy Howard has seen a significant benefit as a result of the new goaltending coach.  I have never played hockey and certainly not a goaltender, so I can't see if there are changes to his game.  I wouldn't be surprised if it is just a renewed spirit.  Last year, he was demoted to backup, and he was probably pretty angry.  This season, he's still the backup, but instead of looking down, he can look up, and try to challenge Mrazek for the top spot again.  Like I've said in other posts, don't think of him as an overpriced backup, consider both goalies' salaries as a "goaltending budget."

 

Anyway, this team is a pleasure to watch and hopefully we can ride the wave for a good long time.  When was the last time the team was tied for first in the league for most goals?  I know early in the season, but it looks great!

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@yave1964

@WingNut722

 

This is very interesting to me, because the way I see it, the difference is how the second-tier players are contributing. The Red Wings have had a significant history of their second tier players being inconsistent at best or not contributing much at all at worst. I think last season showed that more than any other. This goes back into Babcock days. Filpulla. Samuelsson. Hudler. Helm. Abby. Guys who have been here for a while and all were meh. Some of them left and produced elsewhere. I don't know if it was just the shadow of Pav & Z, or if it was Babs, but our secondary scoring has always been a question of WHO will step up, and not which of the guys who have been stepping up is gonna score today? IF vs. which one.

 

I just have a feeling that with the movement toward youth, which has been resisted by the Wings leadership for much longer and more fervently than it should have been, that now that the movement is being done in earnest, and guys are being rewarded with new contracts that they see better opportunities now than ever before.

 

Look at Vanek. Look at Helm. Look at Nyquist. Look at Tats. Even Erickson now. These are all guys who are trying to redeem themselves. They all had bad years. But now they can see that there is new blood that could actually see ice time. Sproul is here and is a force. Too many players who are ready to contribute and not enough slots. Think Steve Ott isn't a little concerned about AA's great play last game? He should be. If AA continues that, Steve's gonna be seeing a lot of the press box. He better contribute when he gets his chance.

 

See, before opportunity was given based upon injury. One of the regulars would get injured, and a kid would be given a chance to show what they've got/. But it wasn't a realistic chance to take the roster spot, since the regulars basically always got their spot back. Look at Mantha at the end of last year. Banished, even for the playoffs. Why work hard if you have no realistic shot to be rewarded? Well, the team is now officially in flux. So much that we are losing talent to the waiver pool. Bottom line: the fire has now officially been lit under players behinds. Play or move over. Mike Green wants that 25 minutes of ice time? Then play like Mike Green. Kronner is a shadow of himself now. His spot is there for the taking, and Green's got it now. NO ONE was gonna replace Pav. Someone has to now, both this season and moving forward. Is Vanek angling for that spot? You bet.

 

This has realistically been missing on this team for quite a while other than just talk. Threat only. Larkin cracked the mold last year, and the results showed that at this point youth isn't hurting us, because our vets haven't been that good. Now we've got some new vets AND young kids who all want a role, and I think they see a legitimate chance of contributing.

 

This season is about redemption and opportunity for a bunch of players. Howard is on that list. Maybe he sees what I see--that playing lights out is his ticket to either realistically challenging for the top spot, or more likely getting a significant role on another team, because playing well means he can be moved instead of dead-ending here.

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