Flyers have too many playmakers, no finishers...

[RonJeremy]

As we can all see by our lack of scoring, we are severely lacking a finisher on this team. Our most skilled guys, Giroux, Konecny and Voracek are all primarily assist men. Our best pure goal scorer has been Simmonds over the past few years and In hoping Schenn can become a 30 goal guy , but Im very concerned when Matt Reade is your top sniper. 

 

Goal scorers are hard to come by these days and I just hope that none of the three  scoring wingers we passed up (Gauthier,Jones or Bellows) to draft a two way guy from Russia, end up being the pure scorer we severely lack .

 

I know people say those guys are one dimensional, they can only score, well Tim Kerr and Reggie Leach never got many assists, but they sure did score alot of clutch goals when we needed one.

 

If Morin or Sanheim look ready after a half season in the AHL, then by the deadline,  I would see if we could land a young finisher for Del Zotto.

[brelic]

1 minute ago, RonJeremy said:

As we can all see by our lack of scoring, we are severely lacking a finisher on this team. Our most skilled guys, Giroux, Konecny and Voracek are all primarily assist men. Our best pure goal scorer has been Simmonds over the past few years and In hoping Schenn can become a 30 goal guy , but Im very concerned when Matt Reade is your top sniper. 

 

Goal scorers are hard to come by these days and I just hope that none of the three  scoring wingers we passed up (Gauthier,Jones or Bellows) to draft a two way guy from Russia, end up being the pure scorer we severely lack .

 

I know people say those guys are one dimensional, they can only score, well Tim Kerr and Reggie Leach never got many assists, but they sure did score alot of clutch goals when we needed one.

 

If Morin or Sanheim look ready after a half season in the AHL, then by the deadline,  I would see if we could land a young finisher for Del Zotto.

 

I agree that we don't have a dynamic finisher. Simmonds is not it. He scores a ton of goals, and I love the guy, but he's not "dynamic." They're mostly doorstep PP goals. If Ghost were a forward (and he almost is), I'd say he's a dynamic finisher. 

 

Outside of that, we don't have one. 

 

[King Knut]

18 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

As we can all see by our lack of scoring, we are severely lacking a finisher on this team. Our most skilled guys, Giroux, Konecny and Voracek are all primarily assist men. Our best pure goal scorer has been Simmonds over the past few years and In hoping Schenn can become a 30 goal guy , but Im very concerned when Matt Reade is your top sniper. 

 

Goal scorers are hard to come by these days and I just hope that none of the three  scoring wingers we passed up (Gauthier,Jones or Bellows) to draft a two way guy from Russia, end up being the pure scorer we severely lack .

 

I know people say those guys are one dimensional, they can only score, well Tim Kerr and Reggie Leach never got many assists, but they sure did score alot of clutch goals when we needed one.

 

If Morin or Sanheim look ready after a half season in the AHL, then by the deadline,  I would see if we could land a young finisher for Del Zotto.

 

I would have agreed with this before I saw how poor this defense was playing.  They may still have to depending on what Del Zotto's looking for in his contract (which should have been weakened by this latest injury which truly suggests a trend IMHO).  

 

As it is, I agree with everything you're saying, but the fact is that scoring hasn't been their problem in spite of it.  Their defense has been horrible.  It appears as though they need a good mid-career guy.  Mac is Mac (what the hell was he doing on the PK anyway?) and Streit while he scored several points last night has lost any edge on his defensive side and should probably retire.  

 

The other aspect affecting this would be that I'd tend to doubt a team willing to "rent" MDZ in a contract year is also a team ready to give up a goal scoring winger.  Even if you gave them early rights to iron out a deal with Mike, I'm just not sure I see that happening.  

 

I would have thought maybe Edmonton had the offense to spare in the name of a good two way D man, but they already sent their errant forward packing.  

 

Unfortunately, the best chance is free agency and that's going to be tough with the cap room.  And frankly I don't even know who's going to be a UFA this summer.  The advent of the Vegas team will likely complicate July 1 anyway.  HOWEVER if they trade/choose not to resign DelZotto and Streit and Schultz, they should have a decent chunk of change for an accomplished sniper.

 

They also won't have any veteran leadership on Defense.  

[RonJeremy]

Best case scenario is Del Z plays well and his value increases, and if it looks like he cant be re-signed then we shop him at the deadline. Maybe we cant get a NHL scoring winget but a top scoring prospect would not be out of line. Lets say a guy like Lawson Crouse who is a highly regarded scoring prospect was recently traded....so Im hoping for a guy like that, rather than lose Del Z as a FA.

[brelic]

FWIW, I read an interesting take on team building yesterday.. the author argued that the Leafs are building in reverse from Chicago. The Hawks apparently stocked up on defensemen and goalies in the draft, and then finally started drafting their marquee forwards five years later (Toews, Kane).

 

Keith was 2002, Seabrook was 2003, Hjalmarsson was 2005, Crawford was 2003.

 

Up front, Toews was 2006, Kane was 2007, Panik was 2009.

 

Whether or not it's cherry picking, I don't know. But, it does validate the Hextall model in the sense that it's fine if we don't already have a stable of ready forwards.

 

In that timetable, Morin was our first real culture shift toward team building through the draft, and that was 2013. Sanheim was 2014, Provo 2015. Ghost was 2012 3rd rounder that was a crapshoot that turned out really well.

 

Hextall also filled the pipeline with goalies - Stolarz, Lyon, Tomek, Sandstrom, Hart.

 

These two positions take the longest to develop into impact NHL players, so it makes sense. 

 

We already have Konecny making an impact. Maybe Rubtsov is a year or two away. Same with Lindblom. 

 

Anyway, by the time our D and G prospect pool is fully realized, our forward pool should be stocked and ready to go as well.

 

 

[RonJeremy]

@kingknut, i agree our defense has been a problem, but all our top prospects are decenseman, so help is coming. Other than Konecny we dont have any hivhly skilled forwards coming, we are also lacking in size and toughness on the wing. A modern day Rick Tocchet would be nice.

 

[Philly29]

8 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Best case scenario is Del Z plays well and his value increases, and if it looks like he cant be re-signed then we shop him at the deadline. Maybe we cant get a NHL scoring winget but a top scoring prospect would not be out of line. Lets say a guy like Lawson Crouse who is a highly regarded scoring prospect was recently traded....so Im hoping for a guy like that, rather than lose Del Z as a FA.

I actually like Anthony Mantha from Detroit. A 6'5" winger and is a scorer from what I hear. I probably am wrong about this guy does anyone have any input on him?

[SpikeDDS]

@Philly29

 

Mantha is is becoming what the Wings have hoped, even if it has taken him longer than they would have liked. He was injured a couple years ago, and had a poor year after his recovery. He was brought up to the Wings late last year, when the Wings' PP was fizzling during the final chase for a playoffs spot. The PP improved dramatically--although not many points were directly attributable to Mantha. However, for the playoffs, Detroit sent him back down to the AHL. And then this year they had a glut of too many second-tier and prospect forwards, which has resulted in them losing a couple more to waivers. Mantha, however, has been VERY solid this season in the AHL. The problem for Detroit is making room for him when they are also bringing up Andreas Athanasiou (AA) at the same time. Again, too many forwards.

 

Having said that, if you think the Wings will part with Mantha for the likes of MDZ, I want some of what you are smoking!  Not gonna happen.

[flyercanuck]

18 hours ago, brelic said:

FWIW, I read an interesting take on team building yesterday.. the author argued that the Leafs are building in reverse from Chicago. The Hawks apparently stocked up on defensemen and goalies in the draft, and then finally started drafting their marquee forwards five years later (Toews, Kane).

 

Keith was 2002, Seabrook was 2003, Hjalmarsson was 2005, Crawford was 2003.

 

Up front, Toews was 2006, Kane was 2007, Panik was 2009.

 

Whether or not it's cherry picking, I don't know. But, it does validate the Hextall model in the sense that it's fine if we don't already have a stable of ready forwards.

 

In that timetable, Morin was our first real culture shift toward team building through the draft, and that was 2013. Sanheim was 2014, Provo 2015. Ghost was 2012 3rd rounder that was a crapshoot that turned out really well.

 

Hextall also filled the pipeline with goalies - Stolarz, Lyon, Tomek, Sandstrom, Hart.

 

These two positions take the longest to develop into impact NHL players, so it makes sense. 

 

We already have Konecny making an impact. Maybe Rubtsov is a year or two away. Same with Lindblom. 

 

Anyway, by the time our D and G prospect pool is fully realized, our forward pool should be stocked and ready to go as well.

 

 

 

Although I'd always take best Player Available, it does make sense to draft defence and goaltending first.

 

As you mentioned, they generally take longer to develop. They are also fewer and far between. Once you feel like you're set at that position (I'm pretty comfortable that with Zot/Ghost/Manning/Provorov/Sanheim/Morin/Goulash/Myers/Hagg/Friedman/Vasiliev/Petterson/Wilcox we have our D....goaltending, not so sure but Mason is good enough if half that D pans out and there's plenty of good netminders in our cupboard)).

 

So Konecny has made the step, and quite admirably so far. We have Rubstov/Laberge/Aube-Kubel/Fazleev/Leier...not exactly bluechippers though the first 3 have potential. But from here in hextall and co. can focus on drafting forwards...which are far easier to predict and also way more plentiful. It shouldn't be all that challenging as long as he keeps grabbing extra picks and using them wisely.

[AJgoal]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

So Konecny has made the step, and quite admirably so far. We have Rubstov/Laberge/Aube-Kubel/Fazleev/Leier...not exactly bluechippers though the first 3 have potential. But from here in hextall and co. can focus on drafting forwards...which are far easier to predict and also way more plentiful. It shouldn't be all that challenging as long as he keeps grabbing extra picks and using them wisely.

 

Don't forget Lindblom. He's tearing up the SHL right now. Tied for 6th in scoring with 5g, 7a in 12 games. 

 

ETA: only two players have more points (most is 14), but several guys with 12 have more goals.

[canoli]

I think Read was quoted saying 90% of goals are scored within 10 feet of the net. If that's true we may not need a "true sniper" but instead just more traffic in front, more greasy goals.

[brelic]

24 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Don't forget Lindblom. He's tearing up the SHL right now. Tied for 6th in scoring with 5g, 7a in 12 games. 

 

ETA: only two players have more points (most is 14), but several guys with 12 have more goals.

 

Allison could also be a diamond in the rough. 6'2", 205lb right winger. Has 5 points (3g, 2a) in 4 games so far this year.

 

He's a self-described power forward. Named playoff MVP, and led his team to a championship.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=199949

 

 

 

[AJgoal]

13 minutes ago, canoli said:

I think Read was quoted saying 90% of goals are scored within 10 feet of the net. If that's true we may not need a "true sniper" but instead just more traffic in front, more greasy goals.

 

Based on eye test I think that's mostly true. Most goals nowadays seem to come with traffic or on rebounds/deflections. Goalies are too good and defenses are so tight that that's the only way to score. Charts I've seen have goals scored from the dots in at around 60-65 percent.

 

8 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Allison could also be a diamond in the rough. 6'2", 205lb right winger. Has 5 points (3g, 2a) in 4 games so far this year.

 

He's a self-described power forward.

 

 

 

Nah, he only plays college hockey .

[flyercanuck]

35 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Don't forget Lindblom. He's tearing up the SHL right now. Tied for 6th in scoring with 5g, 7a in 12 games. 

 

ETA: only two players have more points (most is 14), but several guys with 12 have more goals.

 

Hadn't had my coffee yet. Of course Lindblom is a potential NHL scorer.

[Philly29]

14 hours ago, SpikeDDS said:

@Philly29

 

Mantha is is becoming what the Wings have hoped, even if it has taken him longer than they would have liked. He was injured a couple years ago, and had a poor year after his recovery. He was brought up to the Wings late last year, when the Wings' PP was fizzling during the final chase for a playoffs spot. The PP improved dramatically--although not many points were directly attributable to Mantha. However, for the playoffs, Detroit sent him back down to the AHL. And then this year they had a glut of too many second-tier and prospect forwards, which has resulted in them losing a couple more to waivers. Mantha, however, has been VERY solid this season in the AHL. The problem for Detroit is making room for him when they are also bringing up Andreas Athanasiou (AA) at the same time. Again, too many forwards.

 

Having said that, if you think the Wings will part with Mantha for the likes of MDZ, I want some of what you are smoking!  Not gonna happen.

Excuse me but where in my original post did I say that I thought we could get Mantha for MDZ? I quoted the guys post because Crouses name was brought up and was wondering about another big sniper in Mantha I never said anything about trading for him. Maybe you should stop smoking because its making you see and read things that are not there..... I guess that's not "gonna happen" either. Thanks for the informative post except for the end part...

[SpikeDDS]

52 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

Excuse me but where in my original post did I say that I thought we could get Mantha for MDZ? I quoted the guys post because Crouses name was brought up and was wondering about another big sniper in Mantha I never said anything about trading for him. Maybe you should stop smoking because its making you see and read things that are not there..... I guess that's not "gonna happen" either. Thanks for the informative post except for the end part...

 

Two things. Shall we review?

 

16 hours ago, Philly29 said:

On 10/26/2016 at 1:15 PM, RonJeremy said:

Best case scenario is Del Z plays well and his value increases, and if it looks like he cant be re-signed then we shop him at the deadline. Maybe we cant get a NHL scoring winget but a top scoring prospect would not be out of line. Lets say a guy like Lawson Crouse who is a highly regarded scoring prospect was recently traded....so Im hoping for a guy like that, rather than lose Del Z as a FA.

I actually like Anthony Mantha from Detroit. A 6'5" winger and is a scorer from what I hear. I probably am wrong about this guy does anyone have any input on him?

The context of the post you quoted was shopping MDZ at the deadline, where it was suggested that a top scoring prospect would be in line. Then you bring up and say you like Mantha. It would be a reasonable assumption that Mantha was the top scoring prospect that you were suggesting.

 

But even if that wasn't true, I still hedged that bet, saying:

15 hours ago, SpikeDDS said:

Having said that, if you think the Wings will part with Mantha for the likes of MDZ, I want some of what you are smoking!  Not gonna happen.

 

Note the IF. I didn't say you WERE saying that that, even if the context of your post strongly suggests it.

 

Smoke away!

 

P.S. You're welcome for the update. I want to see Mantha as a Wing.

[Philly29]

2 hours ago, SpikeDDS said:

 

Two things. Shall we review?

 

The context of the post you quoted was shopping MDZ at the deadline, where it was suggested that a top scoring prospect would be in line. Then you bring up and say you like Mantha. It would be a reasonable assumption that Mantha was the top scoring prospect that you were suggesting.

 

But even if that wasn't true, I still hedged that bet, saying:

 

Note the IF. I didn't say you WERE saying that that, even if the context of your post strongly suggests it.

 

Smoke away!

 

P.S. You're welcome for the update. I want to see Mantha as a Wing.

All I asked was what did he think of Manth as a player not as a trade scenario. I do not want to see Mantha as a Wing I want him as a Flyer. Wont give you MDZ for him but we will trade you Andrew McDonald for Mantha and Detroits 2nd this year, and a 3rd next year. If I am going to be accused of smoking mind as well make a post acting like it!

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

If the Flyers decide that they can part with Del Zotto, I would love to see a left wing prospect like Michael Dal Colle or Brendan Perlini as the return. Dal Colle would be the preference because he's shown in junior that he can really put the puck in the net. Can't see the Islanders moving Dal Colle, unless a third team were to get involved. However, I don't think the Flyers will move Del Zotto. He and Gudas are going to be the 'leaders' of the D going forward. Even though Provorov, Gostisbehere, Morin and Sanheim are the future of the D, Del Zotto and Gudas are the veterans that they'll lean on hard.