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csummers

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  1. Well ya, that makes sense. The 20 year old who has scored 30 points in two straight seasons straight out of junior is going to be replaced by the 25 year old who scored 30 points once in five seasons. You should call Fletcher, he needs to know.
  2. Well, there is that thing where Leclair scored two overtime goals in the stanley cup finals to help the habs win the cup in 93. Thats not a bad way to flounder. Hayes on the other hand, is not exactly what anyone would call clutch in the playoffs. He did save a goal here though, just too bad its his own goal he stopped. Smooth hands there. [Hidden Content]
  3. No its not a pattern at all that the flyers have no idea how to judge the players they have. Its an organizational thing, always has been. They overvalue what they dont have and undervalue what they have. But we get to see the players excel elsewhere so its exciting for us, like seeing a baby bird hatch and then go on to live a good life somewhere else. Patrick Sharp, Sergei Brobrovsky, Schenn, Hartnell, JVR(1st time), all good players that never seemed good enough in Philly but seemed to just do fine elsewhere. Hey, lets not forget we got to see richards and carter raise cups in order to build for the future only to let half of what that future is go in order to..........build for the future. Sooner or later, you should try to win. If your organization consistently undervalues its own players and over values other players it will keep happening. Every time they do it we hear about how these are the guys of the future, how these guys are the ones, how this trade will pay off. Then they pull the chute before they even know what they have, rinse, repeat. It would not be so bad if they didnt take slugs. The schenn trade was great because they have young guys coming up ready to step up......... but they didnt have anyone and instead got into two bad contracts with older players that will haunt them for years. They sure have got mileage out of frost, whether he ends up a good player or not. They can screw up anything they want right now and the answer is "but its okay, they have Frost coming up". I hope he is good but when I saw every scouting system picking him 2nd round and only the flyers excited for him being first round I thought about their track record of talent judging and its not exactly making me confident. If patrick didnt fall into their lap they wouldnt even have that hope. They let JVR go just in time to let someone else get his best years and then they over paid to get him back while he is going on the decline. Thats real smart planning for the future right there. Toronto had a team they thought was a cup contender but one guy they didnt think they needed for that was JVR. When a cup contender lets a guy walk, it might be a good idea to stay away from him long term. Want to trade a young guy for futures thats fine, but why take a piece of crap in the deal that will be unmovable and you are stuck with for 2 or 3 years? They did it with umberger and they did it with lehtera and for the 5 or so years we had to watch them there was zero chance of winning anything. And now that time is up and they still dont have the pieces to fill what they had and have spent 14 million in 2 years trying to plug that hole up front while they see that all those prospects arent ready. Now we get to watch 7 years of Hayes, who has played about 70 games in two seasons and never broke 50 points. I cant wait.
  4. They might be great players, like Lehtera. Maybe they will be good, at which time the flyers will trade them for a useless player and some draft choices. Then they will turn around and dump what they get in those moves for more futures. If teams won awards for dumping players for draft choices surely the flyers would get it. Its what they do but at least we get to watch them all hoist the cup at their new home, so theres that. You see the pattern? They traded hartnell, saddled the team with umberger for a couple seasons while Hartnell went on to play well for 4 more years in columbus. And then they had nobody to play with giroux for a few years. But its okay because it was for the future. Then when they got out of that finally they traded schenn, for a useless guy who made about the same amount and draft choices. Thats 6 wasted years right there of watching umberger and then lehtera when the team should have just said outright they did not intend to win anything. They could have just kept the players they had and let them play it out and then leave, or in Hartnells case retire. I dont think frost is useless, I think he is gamble and not worth giving up a young, cheap, pp goal leader, proven center with size(you can add Stanley cup winner to that now). And if the flyers thought that Frost was the future at center then why did they just sign a plug for 7x7? Looks more like the flyers dont think he will be ready either. I hope frost is great, they will get more draft choices and maybe two useless players for him when they trade him in his prime. Its all about the future you know.
  5. Why did he have to take another step? They just paid a few million more for a 27 year old that has never done what schenn did three times before he was 25. And his pay was in line for what he was producing. Now they are paying 7 mil a year for a guy who has never came close to the steps schenn has already taken, and likely never will. If they have the future center in frost then why sign a plug for 7 years? they could have had Filpulla again last year for less than 3 million if they needed a placeholder. If frost ends up being good, good luck moving that contract.. If Frost ends up being as good as schenn everyone will be okay with that. You need more than one or two centers. And I didnt forget about the picks for schenn, ive been talking about frost in this thread. Farabee could be good, who knows. I had to remind others about Lehtera. If Hextall didnt make that trade, he would still be GM of flyers, the flyers would have made the playoffs, and St Louis wouldnt have a cup.
  6. You should cherish every one of them, I dont there are many left.
  7. Oh, I see, he has not been given the option to make the team. If only they would have invited him to camp. This must be a misprint. And you call my argument silly. Ratcliffe may end up being the better player, who knows. I hope frost is good but another thing to remember is they didnt need that trade to get frost, he would have been there with the pick they used on ratcliffe. So Frost is gonna get better but Patrick wont. Got it. [Hidden Content]
  8. They saved no money with the schenn trade, lehtera cost about the same. They got out of one year, next year, and nobody would want out of one year at schenn for 5 million cap hit next year. Frost hasnt played a game, the other guy is gone isnt he?. Schenn didnt do anything except score over 50 points three straight years and lead the league in power play goals tied with two guys, one named ovechkin and one named kucherov. He was the center they are currently over paying trying to find. They had him and they let him go to draft a second round player in the first round for whatever reason. So what did the flyers get for schenn besides Frost and watching Lehtera skate around like he is on mushrooms? and what the odds Frost ever turns into what schenn already was? The flyers were the only ones, or one of the few, who seemed to have him ranked in the first round. He may end up being really good, I hope so, but that trade destroyed the team and started hextall on his way out. Hextall overvalued his prospects, he thought someone would step up and fill what schenn was doing and there was nobody there to do it. .
  9. Its a bad signing, pure and simple. He is not coming into his prime, he is going out of his prime. The entire league is getting younger, (or people are just noticing that its always been young). Yet here the flyers are signing guys long term into their 30's for big money. Its ridiculous. They are STILL chasing the Schenn trade(who just happened to win a cup as a top 6 center for the 5.2 mil salary cap hit that hextall traded him during). Oh, and they have him for that next year too. Then they will probably let someone else overpay for him into his 30's and he will start a steady decline. Its a pattern. You have to get guys that are young and let them go when they get to 28 or so when they demand term and money. You only do that for very exceptional players. Look at pittsburg, their money goes to top players and they spread the rest around to younger, faster, cheaper guys wherever they can. Guenztel is a cap hit of 6 mil a year and is 24 signed till he is 28 or 29 and then they will probably walk way and let someone else over pay for him. And he will get a huge contract from some team and it will handcuff them for years while they watch a guy decline. Its always been a young players league. Bruins never regretted not signing Lucic, they knew they already got his best years. You know what a guy is before he is 25, and you likely have seen his best years by then and if not, you have before he is 27 or 28. Just look at all the stars through the years and their best years and what age they were, you might be shocked at what you see. Age is just one aspect, I get that, but its still interesting that most stars have their very best years when they are very young. Its different for dmen probably but even active players you can look at their stats and their best years and most come very young, first few seasons. gretzkys very best year he was 24 Orrs very best year he was 22 Lemieux best year he was 23 Jagr very best year he was 24 bossy best year he was 24 Ovechkins best year he was 22 Lafleurs best he was 25 yzermans best season he was 23 My best year I was 8
  10. Well, its the only thing we have of frost to compare with isnt it, considering he cant make the team. The point is pretty self explanatory, Patrick is heads and tails better. He got 102 point in junior in 2015/16, now has two nhl seasons complete while frost is still playing in the soo and hasnt had a sniff. If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the depth chart. If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the scoring. I know it, you know it and the flyers know it. Just me and the flyers admit it. If he was good enough, he would be there. I like how every month goes by the expectations on frost changes. He went from the future top/second line center to maybe a third line center. He is a good junior player, may never be an nhl player but thats okay. He is what he is.
  11. Frost is a junior player the same age as Patrick, same draft. One is an NHL center, one is a junior player. How many points do you think Patrick would get playing for the Soo? You cant even compare the two. One is going into his third NHL season, the other has not been able to make the team.
  12. Its what you have to do. You got the bargain years out of him for a good price, now let someone else overpay for the decline years. Thats how the game has become now, you stay away from the big last contract of someones career like the JVR signing which pretty much put the nail in the coffin of simmonds leaving after setting the price high. The way I see it is you keep guys like simmonds, schenn while they are in the cheap contract, play them out and let them walk or trade them when the time comes. If you overpay for someone like JVR how do you ever expect to resign simmonds anyway? No long-term deals to anyone pushing 30, especially a physical guy. Let your mid contract guys play out the cheap contracts then cut bait if they want too much for too long, let someone else pay for the decline. Simmonds to me was what a football player would be called a drive killer. His knack for horrible passes messing up odd man rushes, pp and all around lack of any decent possession game or passing at all made him a liability. It's a possession game now and he has become a turnover machine. I was kinda hoping flyers would have parted with some prospects and gotten stone, kept simmonds to play out the year and see what happens. Then sign stone and let simmonds walk.
  13. I should hope they listen to everything. If a deal knocks their socks off I expect them take a serious look at it. The kind of deal is a couple first round picks.......But remember, flyers just had two first round picks and one is still in junior and the other has played two years in nhl and so far nobody really knows what he will amount to(I think he will be a good player). And its a lottery too so unless you get an after the lottery offer for 1st overall its a crap shoot. Even first over all means little a lot of years. Giroux was drafted 22nd, right after rangers took Bobby Sanguinetti who is an AHL player for Charlotte. Crap shoot. And nobody is gonna take giroux off your hands without you taking a piece of crap off their hands for a few years which kinda defeats the purpose. If you get a decent return for giroux but it saddles you with someone lehtera or umberger for 3 or 4 years you wont be winning much. And good luck developing those young players when you stink and no longer have your best player. They got a good return for carter and richards but none of them are equal to Giroux. One is already gone and another is likely soon to be gone while people want rid of the other guy. So you end up with Couts who is a star so long as he centers giroux. Watch couts numbers drop the minute G is moved till people are calling for them to trade couts. I think giroux is good enough and young enough to have a few decent playoff runs. Or the flyers can trade him and they will probably watch him lift the cup elsewhere while we count the prospects on here trying to decide what the flyers can get for the guy they traded giroux for. Right now he has 14 more points than the nearest flyer to him at 30 years old with three more years coming. You can trade that if you want but you might as well play him and fix everything else. 
  14. think either of those teams make it without those players? they lost in the finals. Bergeron, Thomas, Fedorov and Vernon got paid to play too. Giroux is under contract for 3 years after this one. There is no trade return that will help the flyers as much as just playing him for that time will. Draft choices are no guarantees as we can see from frost and patrick who its gonna take time with. You want them to develop with a new crop of young players and draft choices? Frost in in junior still, Patrick has two seasons of NHL almost under his belt but I keep hearing how frost is going to be better. How well would patrick be doing in the OHL right now? One is an NHL player, one is not but might be and that right there is about what you can expect in a giroux trade. A high draft choice, a couple lower ones and a slug or two and the odds any of them are better than just playing giroux for 4 years is slim to none.. I dont like the odds in trading giroux for prospects or draft choices and NOBODY is going to give you a better, younger, cheaper player for him. Flyer fans, or maybe fans of all teams I should say, over value draft choices and prospects and under value what they already have any time they are losing.
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