radoran

Minnesota is a hockeymad state - they lost the Stars because of their arena. If they're filling 90%+ I'm good with that. Nashville is an interesting story. They have an attendance number they need to meet or they can leave. They're still filling 90% this season. Winnpieg? Winnipeg essentially still has the small arena that couldn't work the first time. Both Minnesota and Nashville are drawing more actual PEOPLE than Winnipeg. I don't see where Winnipeg's 15.004 is an indication that it will thrive while Nasvhille (16,333 avg.) and Minnesota (16,965) are indications they are obviously failing.

I have no problem watching hockey as a national "niche" sport. That doesn't mean there can't be "hockey" in other places. Tampa's drawing 19K and 96.3% capacity. LA sells out 99.9% this season. Columbus was supposed to be a primed market with proven support for an AHL franchise. Being godawful since inception has killed that. I think Colorado would be back with some success. Phoenix, Miami and Carolina? Hmmm... Does St. John's, Newfoundland have an NHL franchise yet?

SQUIRREL!

Right, I'm saying in 2-3 years after the "newness" has worn off. Look at the bottom ten in attendance - Anaheim and Carolina have won Cups since the lockout. New Jersey, Colorado and the Islanders have storied histories. Dallas "won" the Cup and trails Phoenix and Columbus as the WORST attendance in the entire league (% of house). Then you've got Nashville, Minnesota, Florida and Columbus - with Nashville and Minnesota filling 90+% of capacity. So the question is: does Winnipeg still sell out after making the playoffs once in a decade and winning zero playoff games?

At best that would make it offsetting minors. In order for the "chicken wing" move to work, one's stick has to be already jabbed into the midsection of the opposing player... This gets back to your "sticks on the ice" comment.

Article the other day said MLS has now eclipsed NHL in average fans per game: http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/11/mls-surpasses-nba-nhl-in-average-attendance/ A lot of this has to do with terrible teams in bad hockey markets, but it also referenced the idea that MLS put teams in areas that had a big interest in soccer. They went where the amrket was, they didn't expect a pro team to trickle down and develop interest. I'm curious to see how Winnipeg reacts to having the Atlanta Thrashers over the next few years. If all you have is godawful hockey, how much do you really wanna go watch it?

If there's support in Seattle, I think that'd be a great idea. Seattle's far enough from Vancouver.

From teh FB: Philadelphia Flyers INJURY UPDATE: Flyers GM Paul Holmgren on (D) Erik Gustafsson: "Erik underwent wrist surgery this morning at Methodist Hospital. The surgery was performed by Dr. Randy Culp. We expect Erik to be out of action for six (6) weeks.” Can Schenn play D? ;-)

The important part here is that hitting the goalie in that situation is against the rules. Goalies are not "fair game" when they are in that position. Period. I'd like the instigator rule to go away, but while it's here Shelley is even more ineffective and overpriced. I understand and respect your opinion about how things should be. It's just not how they are.

It's all good. I still have that overwhelming sense of relief that those two decade-long contracts are gone.

Sharp, Patrick.- Worst. Trade. In A Significant Amount of Time.

I see no reason to force a round peg into a square hole. If there's a spot for Schenn, use him. If not, go back and put up two points a game in Adirondack and we'll call you when we square the circle.

I'm not buying into the "Canada deserves another team" argument at this point. I think Winnipeg put a cap on that "deserving." Seven of the top ten Canadian cities already have a team, with Winnipeg the only city under a million people (695K). Quebec has about 20K more. The Buffalo metro has about 1.1M people and there have long been questions about whether Buffalo "can support" a team. I can tell you first hand there are fewer hockeymad cities in the US like Buffalo (Rick notwithstanding) and the team is an integral part of what makes the city identify itself. If Buffalo "can't support" the Sabres, shouldn't we wait to see if the Jets actually succeed in Winnipeg before deciding more small Canadian cities "deserve" NHL teams? You can forget about Hamilton - Tronno will never allow it, much less Buffalo. After that, London has less than 500K people. That leaves Quebec. Does Quebec "deserve" a team simply because it had one and lost it? If Quebec puts together a convincing argument that it will have a new arena and signifcant fan and sponsor support for a team - long term - then I have absolutely no problem with the Quebec Coyotes. I'm just not down with the idea that they "deserve" it. Besides, Quebec is a very nice city. I'd hate to see those ruffian Canadian fans burn it down if their team loses.

I think Jagr has a feel for when a team has the "it" to do something special in a season. I think he feels that he has that here - that this was an opportunity to play for a real contender. Pittsburgh clearly was treating him as a swan song. He wanted to be an eagle. I don't think he ever felt that Washington had a serious chance when he was there and, I mean, seriously - the Rangers? Sheeeya. Philly has given him a late career charge and he's making the most of it. After watching former Flyers go out and get their names on the Cup, I won't mind if a couple former Penguins are on it again under the name PHILADELPHIA FLYERS. He's a real force with the puck. Eerily reminds me of Lindros at times - the 68 (instead of 88) doesn't help. Not the physical edge to the game, but the physical presence on the puck. His influence off the ice is enough that they should just give Shelley's "intangible" money to Jagr. The impact on Voracek could be - COULD BE - career changing. '68 and '93 playing for the Flyers. We've got to be among the most popular teams in Czech. Imagine if they had Vokoun instead of Bryzgalov...

I wouldn't mind a stricter crease rule and a restricted "no hit" area for goalies. That's just not the way the rules are now. The way the rules are now, Lucic deliberately charged Miller, caused a concussion and should have been suspended. As you note, you can see the moment he switches from "play the puck" to "seek and destroy" - it blows my mind that Brendan Shanahan came out and said he saw no clear intent to hit Miller. Lucic was maybe deciding on a pizza topping for after the game? Rewriting the opening paragraph of his thesis paper on the Asian Experience in the Reconstruction South? Musing on whether or not he put too much thyme into the stew last night? How is it that it is obvious to EVERYBODY BUT Brendan Shanahan what Lucic's "intent" was?

some additional points from here: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/The-NHL-doesn-8217-t-need-to-further-coddle-ov;_ylt=AvgVimf058WXMWpPXyD06jN7vLYF?urn=nhl-wp17575 Again - not arguing whether the rules are "right" or "wrong," rather noting that they are, in fact, rules. Goalies are not currently "fair game," according to Rule 42.1 Charging: A goalkeeper is not "fair game" just because he is outside the goal crease area. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an opposing player makes unnecessary contact with a goalkeeper. However, incidental contact, at the discretion of the Referee, will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact. And according to 69.4 Interference On The Goaltender: If an attacking player initiates any contact with a goalkeeper, other than incidental contact, while the goalkeeper is outside his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed. A goalkeeper is not "fair game" just because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such unnecessary contact. Does anybody see Lucic making "reasonable effort to avoid such contact"? How about ANY effort whatsoever? The primary argument here is that Lucic had "every right" to hit Miller. While the NHL argues that Lucic not only made reasonable efforts to avoid the contact, in fact he had no intent to hit Miller whatsoever. I find both positions bizarre to say the least. I am in full agreement with Wyshynski that they don't need more rules to protect goalies. They already have them. They just need to be enforced. And respected.

It's not impossible to fit him into the lineup, but the question is where: First Line: • LW Scott Hartnell(notes), C Claude Giroux, RW Jaromir Jagr(notes) Second Line: • LW James van Riemsdyk(notes), C Danny Briere(notes), RW Wayne Simmonds Third Line: • LW Matt Read, C Max Talbot, RW Jakub Voracek Fourth Line: • LW Harry Zolnierczyk(notes), C Sean Couturier(notes), RW Zac Rinaldo(notes) Clearly Nodl (while injured) is "out". I'd caution against having an entire fourth line of rookies, but we already have an entire fourth line of rookies. It's a good problem to have, but it is a problem...

NHL officiating is horrendous - oh, heck, major sports (and college sports and, well, sports in general) are, too. These guys are just people. They don't see everything. They don't call everything. They aren't perfect. My problem more often than not is with the second ref on the ice making the call from out of position when the other ref has the better line on the play. I think a possible solution in this instance is to allow reply for assigning penalties (at a break) when blood/obvious injury is involved. Just because a player "gets away with it" in the speed of the game shouldn't be an excuse to avoid the penalty. This stick to Talbot's mouth is a classic example. Then to give HIM a double minor is simply adding insult to injury. Obviously some logistics would be involved. Guys definitely need to keep better track of their sticks regardless.

I wouldn't trade Voracek straight up for Crater. OK, maybe in FHL... And why give Columbus Bob? As for the rumor of CLS seeking a goalie, that's why they dealt LeClaire and kept Mason - HE was "their goalie." (not that LeClaire was a BFD). The issue with this team is not the forwards - although there is a little inexperience there - the deal to make would solidify the D corps. Where do you put Crater in this lineup? Sure, the fourth line "worries" me a bit (aside from 18-going-on-30 Couturier) but would you slot a $5M Center into the Fourth line? First Line: • LW Scott Hartnell(notes), C Claude Giroux, RW Jaromir Jagr(notes) Second Line: • LW James van Riemsdyk(notes), C Danny Briere(notes), RW Wayne Simmonds Third Line: • LW Matt Read, C Max Talbot, RW Jakub Voracek Fourth Line: • LW Harry Zolnierczyk(notes), C Sean Couturier(notes), RW Zac Rinaldo(notes)

Kaberle was great in Tronno - where there's no pressure to succeed or actually win anything. Now he's just playing out the string and collecting a check.

His coaching style convinces guys to take lazy stick penalties? Lazy holding penalties? What's he giving them? Sleeping pills? There is no league-wide vendetta against the Flyers. Virtually ever referee has entered the league in the last 20 years, so why would they have any vendetta against the Flyers - I'll wager some of them don't even know who the Broad Street Bullies are. Devorski is the longest-tenured ref, and he's only been on since 1987. You know what people who watch their team play believe? That the refs are out to get them. In every city I have watched hockey, the vast majority of fans feel that there is some league-wide conspiracy against their team. No, really. Stop making lazy plays and you'll stop taking lazy penaties. It's really that simple.

I think quite often you see refs calling games "tight" at the start of the season and then the calls tend to ease off down the stretch. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule. But I think the refs feel they can teach guys to stop some of the more routine stuff and then they can really call the egregious things when it counts. That said, the Flyers have been taking far too many routine penalties and they need to adapt to how the game's being called.

I'd be quite happy with a rule restricting the goalie's movements - even beyond the "trapezoid" and crease. I can totally see where this is a "regular hockey play" - except that the goalie is involved. The question of "should Lucic be able to hit Miller" in that situation is academic. The refs are going to call a penalty if you make absolutely no effort to avoid contact. That's the rule. Is it how it "should" be? I'd say that the goalie should have extra protection, yes. For many reasons which have been amply cited in this thread. Again, goalies restricted to a certain area outside the crease? I could work with that. Hell, I think we'd have done better if some of our goalies were harnessed to the net. If Lucic runs Bryzgalov like that, gets a two minute, knocks Bryz out for several games (and counting) and gets no suspension I have a feeling many would be citing some sort of league vendetta against the Flyers. And if Shanahan doesn't think that Lucic "intended" to hit Miller - which is what the "he has every right to make that hit" argument implies and the League has explicitly states DID NOT happen - then what on God's green Earth was Lucic intending to do??

I can't see them retiring #88 - but I also don't see a large number of people clamouring to wear it. There are only two in the league right now. Hmmm... I wonder if the ping pong balls dropped differently, if Pat Kane would have worn 88 in Philly... Still, I think, like Pelle, it'll remain "unofficially" retired.

I think there's no question we got the better of the Crater deal. No question whatsoever. I don't know that I give up the #8 for Crater along, much less the #8 AND Voracek (#7 overall). This is clearly the right place and the right time for Voracek, with Jagr coming back. I'd like to hope this guy blossoms. IMO Columbus needs someone who knows more about hockey running their hockey operations.