Polaris922

I agree that Kennedy is a more creative player and skater, but something is missing in his finishing. Kunitz is a hard nosed go to the net guy like you said, but my use of him was equal to your use of Simmonds. I don't see Simmonds as anything special either, but a similar player who scores because he gets his nose bloodied. I agree strongly that your boys outplayed mine for two of the games in the series hands down. I felt the Pens outplayed yours for two. The first two games it seemed to be more the Pens breaking open then laying off the gas and your boys having the never say die and wanting it more. Sadly we both get to watch from the sidelines. What I felt were the best two teams going into the playoffs have let us both down. But that's why they play again next year!

I've got to pull for the Kings now.. I can't have anybody left in the east winning. I like the Coyotes too but I just don't see them stopping the Kings the way they've been playing. Go Kings!

I disagree there. The Pens had better stats during the regular season with Crosby missing the majority of it and Letang out for a considerable time as well. Better winning percentage .659 vs .628, better goals for 273 vs 260, better defense 221 goals against vs 232, the same power play 19.72% vs 19.70%, a better penalty kill 87.78% vs 81.82%, and slightly better goaltending 2.36 GAA and .913 save% vs 2.48 GAA and .909% for our starting goalies respectively. I honestly think the Pens have more talent on the ice as you forgot to mention Kunitz, and we had more twenty goal scorers than your boys with every single one of ours in the lineup getting more assists as well. A better plus/minus down the line too. Having said all of that, it just seemed to me that your Flyers came into every game hungering for a win against the Pens until the last game of the season which was admittedly meaningless. THAT was my fear going into the playoffs. The Penguins have a more talented team up front and in the defensive corps in my eyes, not just in the stats, but with player vs. player comparisons. The biggest advantage your Flyers had was youth coming up and apparently wanting it more than some of our veterans. The Flyers' ability to get the Pens playing stupid in Game 2 is what really seemed to decide the series to me. The Pens stopped playing skilled hockey and turned into goon hockey. That being said, your boys put it to them well in the series. If the pens had focused on their game style and Bylsma had done a better job of coaching to adjust our penalty kill it would have been us versus the Devils instead. Sadly for me, the Pens realized this when they were down 3-0 already and couldn't muster enough to run the table out. You have to admit... we had most of you guys worries after game 5. Congrats on the series, in all sincerity, I just don't see where a lot of Flyers fans are claiming to be the more talented team. If anything, the lineups are very evenly matched, and I give my Pens the edge. Giroux is an exceptional hockey player, and I like him even though he's yours. Beyond him you have Hartnell (whom I think is more a byproduct of Giroux's talent much like Robbie Brown was of Lemieux's way back when), Briere, Voracek, Simmonds, and Read. You don't really have a game changing defenseman anywhere in your lineup. THAT might be something shopped for if they give up on Pronger, who in my opinion is well past his prime anyway. Then they could use that money for a new talent. And Bryzgalov has proven to be a very overpaid goaltender. We have Crosby, Malkin, and Neal who are major talents up front. Kunitz, Dupuis, Staal, and yes even Matt Cooke (who played at the same level as Voracek with no power play time). Our edge on defense is Letang. Our defenses are similar talent wise except for him. Fleury didn't have a good playoff at all. But head to head I would take him over Bryzgalov any day of the week. He played more games this year than any other, and I'm wondering after watching his playoff performance if it was too much to ask of him. Anyways, I am sure I'll get a lot of rebuttal from the die hard orange and black fans here, and that's fine. I think every team talks up their own players to appear to be a super lineup no matter where they are. And i think these two teams will be seeing a LOT of each other in years to come in the playoffs. Frankly, I love the rivalry, and I think the NHL rating it the 9th best rivalry in hockey was a sham! It deserves top 5 in my book!

Just remember that every franchise says nice things about intentions to stay where they are until the moving trucks pull up. Sounds like there are a lot of people trying to keep them there though... guess we'll all find out!

They really look good. Far cry from the team that barely made it into the playoffs.

You were right.. it wasn't in 7. LOL

So what will the Pens do to prepare for next year? Anybody think big changes will come? Would YOU move players? I have some ideas, what do you think???

Giroux's hit on Zubrus wasn't a "cheap shot elbow". Yeah it was a shoulder to the chin but I don't believe he had an intent to injure so there's nothing cheap about it. If you watch the play he's upset about the occurrences leading up to that play and seems to me to be trying to line up a bit of a hit on Zubrus to make a statement for the game, not injure the man. He was penalized and suspended. It's over. That's not Giroux's style. Hartnell yes... Simmonds made use of the elbow in LA a lot but seems to have abandoned it in Philly, or Coburn likes to bring the arms up too. Hell every team from mites to the NHL has players who do it and get away with it or don't get away with it. But I wouldn't be throwing stones at Giroux for it, he's not that type of player.

I disagree about Fleury being the Pens' problem. He is a very solid all-star goaltender who had a bad series. he did win two games for us though, primarily through his effort in the second and third period of game four, and a stellar performance in game 5. Yes he had a bad series, but he was better than Bryzgalov in that series, making quite a few great saves. Your team won not because your goalie played better, but because your special teams won the war.

Believe me I understand. As a Pens fan I honestly thought we would handle your Flyers in a tough series. I never expected the series to go the way it did. Everyone gets sore after a playoff loss. If they didn't, it would be a sign they didn't care. I understand players said it was clean. But the contact to the head is clear and him throwing himself upwards into his jaw is clear too. No there was no intention. But yes it was reckless. I agree though the consistency is what burns you. Hell it burned me repeatedly all season. and I know it favored some of my players we well!

It's a paycheck like any other. I promise not to give a damn what you do in your personal life. I'm here for the hockey talk! LOL

Wear homer glasses often?? You validate my point! Yes there should've been a suspension for Malkin hitting Grossman with his shoulder. That's exactly what I'm saying. It's the same thing Giroux did. Giroux's just looks worse because he launches his shoulder up into Zubrus' jaw. Malkin did more of a skate by into the side of the jaw. It's that lack of consistency that's the problem! Try reading the posts instead of just focusing on the team I'm a fan of. Especially if you're going to try throwing insults and make yourself look like an ass.

Doesn't matter what team, what game... the punishments have been inconsistent. Some of you like to point out the non-suspensions for my Pens players repeatedly... and dives, etc etc... but there have also been suspensions for petty crap too, and bad calls for dives made by other teams as well, yours included. No matter the issue, the consistency is what is hurting the NHL. Superstar vs grinder, or any other players. Doesn't seem to matter who is in the position, it's done without any consistency. That being said, based on the hit alone, Giroux deserved a one game for shoulder to jaw contact on a hit. Yeah the puck wasn't there anymore but so what? It's the hit that hurts. I'm not saying it was intentional or dirty, just reckless.

Everybody in the league felt you guys paid way to much for Bryzgalov. Yes he was a good goaltender for Phoenix but that was a collosal amount of money to spend. Having said that he WAS a solid goaltender in Phoenix, but honestly your defense has a lot more holes in it than Phoenix does. From my perspective, the only solid defensemen you have on your roster are Coburn and Grossman. And that's counting Meszaros. (Not that my Pens have been any better mind you). Maybe Bryzgalov's success was more a product of solid defense and the occasional spectacular save. But the Devils simply outplayed your boys this series. It's every bit the same as how I felt with my Pens. I honestly felt we had the better team, they just took winning for granted. Like they were entitled to win regardless of effort. Your Flyers looked the same to me here. Not likely... when he was choosing where to play this season, where he says he loved playing means nothing. He went where the money was. You guys overpaid him the way the Pens wouldn't. But he said all the same things to our fan base before choosing your organization. I've spoken to Jagr several times through his years here in Pittsburgh and believe me, the man is as selfish as the day is long. For him it will be about money more than anything. I'd like to see him prove me wrong but I don't expect it. Even if he signs for less it'll be because somewhere, somehow, it benefits him more than any loyalty to the Flyers.

Fixed? No... frustrating as hell? Yes. Every team has it's frustrations. In every sport. I thought once you guys bounced my Pens so easily from the playoffs you were a sure bet for at least the conference finals as well. But let's face it, for every year our favorite teams win, there are a dozen or two they don't. I know it's been a long time for you guys, but your day will come. And when it does, it just makes it that much sweeter.

Jagr looks tired. The season took more of a toll on him than the old Russian superleague does I guess. I wouldn't bench him though, he still has a knack for scoring that timely goal and he seems to be providing SOME leadership and veteran presence. THAT is something he never quite did in his young days with my Pens. Sadly he learned to do it at the end of his career instead of early on.

When he started in Pittsburgh a lot of stories broke about him and his family in Czechoslovakia. Obviously the Cherepanov issue came about after he lft here. I've always had a liking for Jagr and been thankful for the time he played in the 'Burgh. It's a shame the way he is treated when he comes here now, but he did bring a little of it on himself with his attitude. I pulled him over for speeding in his Dodge Viper several times when he was younger and used to fly up and down the roads here. He was always nice to me, but he didn't exactly leave on great terms.

Never forget Zajac... seems to come up big in big games for them.

I think you guys will get past the Devils pretty easily, but I do thin kthe Rangers will be the toughest challenge for you. I've felt the Rangers outplayed their roster all year, and for some reason my Pens had their number. But at the same time, for some reason they had your number just like you guys had ours. Should prove an interesting series. Lundqvuist is a stellar goalie though, with solid fundamentals and fun to watch. I think he'll outplay bryz of Bob easily, so it's going to come down to whether or not your offense is good enough to get their defense off the game and win on oddman breaks and shots in close with little to no time to react. I'm hoping for this to be the conference final!

Agreed on both counts as far as the penalty time being reasonable. I suppose I go back to the idea that elbows up means an intent to injure, where Shanahan isn't handling it that way. And I apologize for thinking the suspension on Neal was two fold. I thought when Shanahan addressed it he indicated both hits, the Coutourier hit and the Giroux thing. Perhaps that was just in some of the talk through here. There are so many Flyers fans here, I forget what was in conversation here and what was on the video!

I disagree as far as Kunitz or Dupuis go. They're not flashy, but Kunitz is a solid performer in front of the net with 26 goals and 61 points this season. Dupuis also had 25 goals and 59 points with almost zero PP time and is a die hard player. He does EVERYTHING well. Not great, but everything well. I'll agree about Cooke or Sullivan though. Cooke had a 19 goal season and played well, largely staying out of trouble, but why not replace him and his occasional stupid penalty with youth and talent? And Sullivan was brought in for leadership and veteran status, but I think the team is seasoned enough to get by without him, so why not bring in a younger talent there as well. I don't see Simmonds as anything special, to be honest. Or Schenn or Voracek either. Read I like.. and Coutourier shows a lot of promise as well. I'm hoping Tangradi develops into something for the Pens next season, and maybe Depres or Strait can step up defensively. I guess a lot remains to be seen. I'm with you though, I trust Shero's hockey smarts... so we'll see what happens.

I agree about that. I think some teams get him mad and he turns everything up a notch. But I also think that sometimes, and maybe the concussion effect has a little to do with this, he goes TOO far and loses the focus he needs. This I don't agree 100% with. I thought they did that with Martin and Michalek. Martin has been a bit disappointing but Michalek has been an exceptional shot blocker. I think the biggest issue is Bylsma's system calls for lying down in the shooting lanes from what I've read, and defensemen pressing into the rush in the attacking zone. The lying down thing does NOT benefit all defensemen, and I think Michalek is more of a stand up and press defenseman. I also think Derek Engelland is a good physically punishing defenseman, but not who you want on the rush. Same can be said for Michalek. And they won't be able to get rid of Martin at $5 million a year either. I LIKE Martin... he was solid in Jersey. Something's not right for him here though. I agree and I don't want Bylsma going anywhere. I just think the system needs to take into consideration more of each defenseman's talents (i.e. Engelland on the rush?). I like the core the Pens have, and I think Bylsma just needs some tweaking to make it more successful. I think they'll keep all three to be honest, and I'm okay with that. Like I said if one had to go I'd make it Staal. I disagree here as well. I think the Pens have plenty of depth, as noted by the season statistics. We acgtually had more twenty goal scorers than the Flyers, and that with Crosby NOT in that count due to injuries. Kunitz, Sullivan, Dupuis, Neal, Malkin... and I would take any of them over Simmonds, Voracek, Talbot, van Riemsdyk, Schenn, Read, Couturier. They're all "plumbers" to me like Dupuis and maybe Kunitz. Sullivan is old, yes, so we'll see whether he stays or goes. I like Van Riemsdyk a lot but the others aren't anything special in my book. Couturier is getting a LOT of credit for shutting down Malkin, and he may develop into a great hockey player as may Read and Schenn, but in my eyes the jury is still out on them till they have more time in. Malkin has a history of disappearing in the playoffs, and this year was no different. Was it solely because of Couturier? I doubt it with Malkin's history but it is possible. These were two teams with great offenses that ran head to head, and yours won. Fleury doesn't fall apart in game 6 and we may be talking game 7 instead. Anyways, great points you make and I appreciate a different perspective. I like being forced to think about all this instead of buying into the same old rah-rah talk so many fans have ignoring their team's true issues.

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As a fellow Pens fan who just read your entire post, I must say.. right on the head man. Well said. I would only add criticism for Bylsma for not doing more to adjust. He didn't adjust the penalty kill, he didn't adjust to get Malkin away from Lav's matchups. And I think he failed to punish some people who needed to sit out and think about how they were playing. That's all I would add!

I honestly don't think you will see this happening. They actually structured Crosby and Malkin's deals to keep them both happy here, and both agreed to take "less than market value" to stay. As for defensemen, I believe Letang is a great D'man, and until recently, was very happy with Michalek and Orpik behind him. Letang is small, but his skating skills and positional play make him a great defenseman in my book. I honestly think Bylsma's "system" is part of what broke the Pens this year. He refused to make changes to the penalty kill against the Flyers and that meant leaving a broken machine on the ice. If anyone has to go, I hope it's Jordan Staal. I think he's one of the most overrated Pens out there. This season his defensive play was average at best, and in the first three games of the playoffs was on the ice, in position, and still failed to stop no less than FIVE Flyers goals. One of which he actually pushed onto Talbot's stick like they were still on the same team. His `point production is okay, but all the hype about him being a number one center anywhere else in the league is crap in my eyes. He's almosty as lazy as Malkin gets at times, and without the point production. That being said I think the Pens had a lot of depth this year. They had a lot of weapons to bring to the rink. The problem is, they peaked two weeks before the end of the season, and then Fleury decided to fall apart in everything but games 4 & 5 of the series. You can say the Flyers got into their heads and made them run around like idiots, you can say the Flyers just outplayed them, but on top of any credit you give the Flyers (which they do deserve), the Pens didn't play up to the way they'd closed out the season. They maybe had too much ego going in, or felt entitled.. I dunno... but they clearly weren't themselves.