fanaticV3.0

I don't think anyone did. I am ok with this deal if he can do what he did last year and not the several before that. He has to be scoring 30 goals a year in my book.

That's not a longterm solution though. Somebody needs to man up and set the tone. I don't absolve the owners; they are they ones who pay the contracts afterall. But there needs to be something from the players that shows they care about the sport and not just their paycheck. You could, yeah. But unless it was a league-wide (or at least majority of teams) philosophy, I don't know how much it matters.

Until those guys making less and doing more decided it's time they earn more. It'll find another way to break through.

Seriously, back the F off the guy. He's not negative because he doesn't think Voracek will be an elite goal scorer.

I know what you mean. I didn't misundertand what you meant by Moneyball.

I thought when RFAs sign with another team the new team has to pay up in the form of draft picks or something? Not that the players is simply not allowed to sign witht he new team.

If that is true, then he would be playing for the Flyers this coming season, no? I'm not CBA expert, but he still has to accept the contract. Right?

Was there a cover up though? Additionally, wasn't it a juniors or minor league coach? Not that it makes it any better, but that's not necessarily a league problem unless there was some kind of cover up or other major wrongdoing on the NHL's part. I agree and I think both the players and owners need to do something about it. Players have to stop expecting this kind of money and owners have to stop paying it. I do agree with you I think it's very possible owners could go the Moneyball route, but it's up to the players to accept it. If they refuse to sign for less money, that's a problem.

That's exactly my point. There's too much unnecessary wealth in all parts of life, it just shocks me nobody seems to give a **** about it when it's entertainers; but if it's some corporate big wig they are suddenly up in arms. I normally don't like gimmicks like that. I think it can seriously affect the quality of the game. I think the Devils brand of hockey - while it can help them compete personally - hurts the game on a bigger scale. However, I do think something needs to be done. The sport has had how many lockouts in the last 15 or so years? There comes a point where you can't afford to keep doing that. The sport simply isn't popular enough.

Exactly. There's just no way he's worth what he's being paid and there is more and more of that throughout sports. It's why I'm a little bothered by Voracek's contract and one of the reasons I don't miss Richards and Carter at all (their stats have dropped a healthy chunk since "breaking out"). There's not actually a whole lot of consistent offensive performers out there right now. There's Stamkos, Malkin, Crosby (if healthy) and maybe a very small handful of guys who will usually be at the top. But outside of that, it's the flavor of the week kinda guys. A few seasons back it was Richards, Kane, Toews. Before that Getzlaf and Perry. Further back it was Heatley and Spezza (who returned from the graveyard this season). They're still getting paid like studs though and that's a problem.

I think that most important part of that statement. Carle was no defensive stalwart and I don't think he'd be real hard to "replace" defensively. I am hoping that its easier to teach an aggressive guy to reign it in - but not stop being that way - rather than teaching a big guy with no balls to use his body.

I agree that it has hard to tell whether he has disappointed or people simply had him pegged wrong. I didn't know much about him and still don't, but even just digging around a little bit, it seems like the Leafs just expected him to be good. Best I can tell, they really didn't give him much to work with or guide him much at all. It was kinda like, "You're our future captain, now go out and play." I'm kind of glad we're getting him at the age that we are. He's young enough that it's very possible he could still improve.

That wasn't really my point. When's the last time you saw those losers protesting salaries in athletics or entertainment? They don't do it, because it's cooler to hate on "the man".

Oh I can't wait to see what he gets paid if he has even one 70pt. year in the next 4 seasons. Vanek makes about $7+ mil a year after that 84pt. season. Forget that he's averaged about 65 a year since.... Can't wait!

I don't disagree, but I was talking about this deal in particular. For that kind of money, I'd like to see him put up more than 40-something points a year. If not, continue to improve the other aspects of his game; because I agree he does play hard. I have to wonder if there is ever going to come a time someone, anyone, maybe the Occupy nerds, will get as upset over cost of entertainment (because that's all it reall is) as they are over corporate stuff.

For him, yeah. For the team? I am not so sure about that. If he increases his output a little bit, I wouldn't complain. But a 46-pt. a year guy for $4 mil? I I didn't like it when it was Hartnell (who better stay above the 60-pt. marker from now on) and I don't like it now. orange_crush is correct; these salaries are totally out of control. This league isn't popular enough to pay that kind of money for guys of what level. It's absurd.

It depends on what rad means by legit contender. PO team? Sure, I can see that. Having an actual show at winning the Cup (as is)? Yeah, I can see why you think they wouldn't. I don't disagree with you on Timonen. I love the guy, but they are going to kill him the way they did Desjardins if they keep playing him like he's still a legit #1. They gotta stop doing that with these older defenseman. See, I'm of the opinion that a top tier player past his prime can be useful if used the right way. But they keep playing guys like him, Pronger, and Rico like they're still kids. I don't know what kind of year Bryz is going to have. I honestly don't have a strong opinion. It's certainly possible for a player to have one bad year - especially in a new city and even more so when that city is Philly - but he's on a very short leash with me this year. But JVR? Lol, come on man. Losing old man Jagr hurts more than losing that waste of size and youth.

I will - and with great interest - once he's actually traded.

I understand the first part and also understand that kind of money to a guy like that may mean more to him, but do you really think atheletes of all people are going to say "I'll pas" to free money for donig nothing? Regardless of whether they need it or not?

This is fantastic news in the player actually agrees to retire. But what happens if he doesn't? I know rad mentioned Andreychuk's situation, but what if it's not exactly the same? It's easy to force someone like him (because of his age) into retirement. Waive him, he refuses to report, the rest is history. I get that. But what if it's a guy who is simply not at the level he was before? Say he's in his early 30s and can still clearly play, just not at the level you'd want for his salary? You're pretty much f-cked, no? You could try trading him, but who is going to play for a guy that has 5-7 more years on his contact and has seen a drop in his play? Or am I missing something?

See, now that was my original point. We had to pay them, right? Can't the same thing happen with all these 10+ year deals people are signing lately? Aren't teams going to be paying for guys who can't hack it anymore, but still want the steady paycheck?

Because it comes naturally and I didn't even realize I was. I'm sorry that me pointing out that you useing Lidstrom as your measuring stick was a little weak, but that's just the way it is.

I do agree, but I'm not sure the teams should be the only one to be penalized. If a guy signs a deal and can't live up to it, why shouldn't the team be able to back out? If there is a way out of these things, great. I'm still not crazy about them because I think it makes them nearly impossible to trade, but at least you can back out of it. You too. Are you still out of the area? Didn't you move or something? I vaguely remember that before Brelic banned me from PTPITN.

I don't think anybody expects many/any of these guys signing these longterm deals to be playing in the latter stages of the contract. As long as there is a way to get out of it down the line, I'm ok with it. It sounds like football, but with a few extra steps?

If the league ever gets to the point where $7 mil isn't a lot of money, they are in trouble; because the sport ain't the popular. You might want to find another measuring stick other than one of the best defenseman of all time.