ruxpin

3 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

No, though the rebuild was materially hurt by Peter Chiarelli's blunders.

-The Milan Lucic free agent signing in 2017.. They got out of by trading Lucic for James Neal and then buying him out. It was the right trade for Ken Holland to make, since it allowed them to sign Zach Hyman. The dead cap from all of this is one will expire after next season.

-The Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson trade. Larsson is a good defender, but not worth nearly Hall.

-1st and 2nd round picks for Griffin Reinhart. The Isles probably laughed themselves to death when they completed the deal.

-The next series of trades almost requires an essay of its own... The Old Boys Club were livid when Jordan Eberle ducked a hit in the 2017 playoffs, so they wanted him gone, dealing him for Ryan Strome, and then dealt Strome to the Rangers for one of the softest players in the history of the game, Ryan Spooner. In turn, Chiarelli deal Spooner to Vancouver for Sam Gagner. In one of the worst examples of asset management you can imagine, Chiarelli turned Jordan and Sam Gagner into Sam Gagner.

-And then, because life can be unfair, half of the Oilers blueline was carved out almost in an instant: Andrej Sekera tore his Achilles tendon and was finished as a player. Oscar Klefbom developed arthritis which was so serious that he had to retire at only 26. Adam Larsson's father died across the street from the arena in Edmonton, and Larsson couldn't bear to play there anymore, walking/signing in Seattle.

 

It's all a long way of saying that you're 100 percent correct, and that there are no guarantees with this, even if you do things right.

 

The draft is the way to do it; absolutely.

I'm completely with you on the Edmonton experience. I can certainly emphasize that it had to be painful.  

I imagine the Flyers would emulate it.  This is probably why Tucson takes the position it does (aside from sheer idiocy).

The problem with not going the draft route (i know I'm preaching to the choir  -- actually, I'm probably the choir repeating the liturgy back to the preacher) is you end up with a team like the flyers with a room full of complementary players that are paid so much that you can't afford to go out and pay a game changer. Maybe one, but only one.  So you end up with, at best, a wild card team and delude yourself into "this was a good year. My sister looked really good on our date."

4 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

It was only when they fluked their way to a lotto win with Connor McDavid that the right player came along.

And still haven't won (the Cup) with him.    Not attempting to pour salt; just doubling down that it's not automatic even then.

But in a cap era, it's still the way to go.   You're not getting there just throwing Comcast money around like it's 1999.

The Utah Commanders

The Utah Wives Club

The Utah Tabernacle Boys Choir

The Utah Pipe Organs

The Utah Brass (to complement the Utah "Jazz," since this is soooooo prevalent in Utah).

The Utah X, formerly known as Coyotes.

In the spirit of this thread, this was my final season in Sweet 16.   The Hell Bears are moving to Salt Lake City to take up pipe organ lessons from Richard Elliott.

Congrats to Gulliver @yave1964 on his 23rd consecutive Lilliput Hockey Championship.

8 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

From a fan's viewpoint, it is hard to care for a team that is a perennial loser with nothing done by ownership to truly improve the situation on the ice.

Yet people still show up for Flyers games.

I'd say people in Arizona are smarter, but readily available evidence says otherwise

13 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

I don't look at this season as a success in any way, other than the maturing of Foerester and York. They lost their #1 goalie, and one of 2 high end prospects. The GM got blinded by a playoff chase and missed a trade deadline opportunity to gather real assets. And last, the dinosaur coach embarrassed himself and several players. 

Laughton and TK are both now diminishing assets, Coots is now just a bad contract, Atkinson has zero value, and the 2 1st rounders may not ever reach 100 games played in the NHL combined. So is the team closer to the prize now compared to last October? In reality, probably farther away. The real hope, and it is a viable hope, is the amateur scouts knock it out of the park at the draft, and the organization properly develops and drafts some future men, not little entitled turds like Gauthier.

Do you think maybe our scouts or player personnel should, I don't know, have a conversation with a potential draft pick before drafting them?   I mean, it's still always a crap shoot, but somehow "human resources" completely screwed up on Gauthier.

2 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Rocky Thompson may be an awful power play coach.  But I don't think you have the worst PP in the league for three years running due solely to coaching.  I think our PP reflects the relatively low-caliber talent of our players.

It is entirely this.  I've said it elsewhere.   The difference between the effectiveness of the PK vs. the PP is that the PK takes hard work.   Generally, Torts has them working hard and committing, so the PK shows that.  The PP is about talent.   Sure, hard work, but a pig will work really hard; he will never fly.    You have to have the skill and then someone with the skill to work hard.  The lack of skill is loudly evident on the PP and has been for several years.   Until they draft and trade for the type you suggest, this will continue.

On 3/9/2024 at 6:10 AM, fan4ever said:

I have been using the temp of this board as my gauge. It seems somewhat safe these days!

We prorated.

15 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

It would have made more sense to sell and tank, rather than to just fall short. Sorry, that's just how I see it. This team played over their heads, for quite a while.

On the other hand, if the goal was to have something entertaining to watch for once, they did that. 

If you're in it to win it, this season helped nothing

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

Connor "Echo and the" Bunnaman!

See? There's good players there.

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

I was fine with it as far as it went.

 

Just saying they actually DID trade an asset for a player "to make the playoffs" that's all.

 

 

Sure, and they had warm bodies that could do that.

 

They made the move "to make the playoffs" - regardless of how the pylon actually turned out, that was the rationale. Such as it was...

Meanie

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

I think you’re mean

Also, don't believe a damn thing my wife says. 

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

I think you’re mean

Aww. I thought that was prerequisite.

I know a poster that has sheep, if that helps any.

5 hours ago, CoachX said:

there isn’t anyone on this forum that is against them rebuilding

Welcome to the forum.   Enjoy your first day.

Hall of Fame Threads I Gave a Crap About

~ Ruxpin

Oh good grief. 

If a team moves and no one knew they existed, did they move?

37 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

With vs without Hart the numbers are pretty staggering… I don’t know if anyone should’ve foreseen this level of suckage. A handful games the Flyers gave some good teams a real battle but the W/L record, Ersson’s game etc. all went South in a hurry after Hart left. 
 

Tonight at MSG, Ersson starting again… 12-2 sounds about right. Either that or the Rangers rest some guys, the Flyers play halfway decent and lose 5-2 instead. But honestly who the hell knows what to expect!

I think even early in the season there were a lot of the typical "Hart was exceptional" comments. I think he kept us in a lot of relatively low scoring games and kept the "holy ****" reaction among the players lower, knowing that it wasn't likely the first of six. 

Hart played as if maybe he knew this season was his last NHL hockey.  I'm afraid "back of the net" will soon have an entirely different meaning.

19 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Was it known he didn't want to come to PHI when he was chosen?

 

If not, I don't see where that was a bad pick, just a bad result. 

Yeah, it wasn't a bad pick.  Seriously and with no sarcasm.

It just was't the right pick.  All along.

10 chances, I pick David Jiricek there with every single chance.   Even there, there's no particular proof that Jiricek's the right pick either.  But for where the Flyers were and the need for high level defencemen, I pick Jiricek.  Time will tell, but he's Drysdale (who I really like) without the paper mache skeletal structure.

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Erik Johnson 15:37 per game Morgan Frost 13:20

Marc Staal  12:48 per game     Bobby Brink 11:42 

 

Which two of these guys do you think should be given more ice team when "rebuilding"? Two of them are completely washed up and can barely skate...the other two show potential to be something going forward.

 

I agree, but it's a better argument if you replace defensemen with defensemen.

Or exchange Erik and Marc with Couturier and Atkinson.

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I would just like to tune in an enjoy a season...not a game but a whole season.

 

But right now we have to carve it down to just a single win.

 

What if they have already won for the last time and know one even knew it...
 

This is exactly why you have to have sex at the end of every date like you might accidentally fall groin-first into a thrashing machine the next day.

5 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Obviously. But I would pay money to find out *why* they collapsed at the end.  If what we are witnessing is just a normal burn-out, taking into consideration the age and inexperience of the group, coupled with the fact they wee overachieving all season long, I am OK with them collapsing. After all, this is what a true rebuild is supposed to feel like. Problem is, this is the theory that is tempting to believe in.  But I am afraid there is more to it.  My fear is they decided to quit on Torts. And if that's the case, I just can't see him coming back.

Possible.

I think the reality is that Cindarella's carriage was really a pumpkin all along.

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Wouldn't it be funny if they promoted Rocky Thompson to HC after kicking Tortorella upstairs.

He does have a good track record of developing young players. 

 

It would be funny because the powerplay was so bad this year and everyone says it's all his fault. 

I think the power play exposes what is really wrong with this team, especially over time while changing out players and coaches:  a good power play ultimately requires talent.   The Flyers simply don't have high-end talent.

Maybe Konecny, but soberly name a single Flyer that makes PP1 on any of these teams:

Tampa Bay Lightning

Carolina Hurricanes

New York Rangers

Dallas Stars

Edmonton Oilers

Colorado Avalanche

Florida Panthers

Toronto Maple Leafs

Detroit Red Wings

Vancouver Canucks

Look, you can hard work your way against teams October to March.   The power play really isn't a big secret in general.  I mean, there's a couple vaguely different structures, but it's a half-court game and it comes down to who can play quickly and at a high level.  This takes skill.   Hard work is great but in a half-court game hard work by players with skill is what it takes.  And 5 on 4, if you have to sacrifice either, you keep the talent.

The penalty kill, conversely, takes hard work and some "game smarts."   Torts had them working hard and playing smart for the most part.  This is reflected by their success (until recently) on the penalty kill.

But regardless of who the coach is, there really is a small bag of tricks in terms of how to play it or strategy.  The PP coach simply can't manufacture skill level out of thin air.  Apparently, not Rocky Thompson, anyway.  I argue no one can.