RonJeremy Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 9 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Nobody is taking on salary though. You move JVR and you're attaching a high pick to it. Look no further than the Washington - Detroit deal today. Washington moved out more salary in Vrana and Panik, took back less salary, and paid a steep price to move those two parts. I get that Panik hasn't been good this year, but Vrana is a fine hockey player. If he's anywhere else, he's easily a top six guy (yet for some unexplained reason, Peter Laviolette dislikes him), yet he's a bottom six guy in Washington. But I digress. Detroit took on more money, but they got Washington to pay a premium. That's how it would have been with JVR. The Flyers move him and they're attaching incentives for a team to take him on. The Flyers are stuck with the bad contract. The one signing I absolutely detested during Hextall's tenure. This was Dale Weise bad. This really sucks, JVR has been productive and consistent. So if we want to dump Voracek, it’s gonna cost us big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, RonJeremy said: This really sucks, JVR has been productive and consistent. You mean for some of this one season, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: You mean for some of this one season, right? He had a streak last year too before the shutdown. Ebbs and flows of the career. But I will say he has been way more productive than the other 2nd overall pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 14 hours ago, RonJeremy said: I really thought and hoped that JVR would be moved at this deadline, he is having a good year, and his value is at an all time high. If JVR had been moved , it would be one less player for Seattle to choose from and slightly increase the probability of Jake being taken . I just hope we can get rid of Jake somehow, even if we have to include a prospect. Even if we have to retain some of Jake's salary, he needs to be traded. Way too much money for a highly inconsistent, second line winger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: He had a streak last year too before the shutdown. Ebbs and flows of the career. But I will say he has been way more productive than the other 2nd overall pick. Oh goody! Trade Patrick so he can have a great season or two somewhere else, then re-sign him for a super long contract, for unreal money, and watch him become a true #2 In fact, the flyers should just sign all their players to lifetime contracts. It would be easier for fans because we would except without hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, CoachX said: Oh goody! Trade Patrick so he can have a great season or two somewhere else, then re-sign him for a super long contract, for unreal money, and watch him become a true #2 In fact, the flyers should just sign all their players to lifetime contracts. It would be easier for fans because we would except without hope I hate to say it, but I think Patrick is going to be as good as we're seeing and that's not very good at all. Some will say concussions/migraines, but I just think he's not a very good player and it happens unfortunately. If he blossoms elsewhere, good for him, but I don't think it's going to happen here. I also think the assistant coaches haven't done the young guys any favours in terms of their development. We've all seen everyone take a step backwards this year and while Vigneault is ultimately held responsible as he's the head coach, I think Therrien and Yeo have been horrible in their direction they have provided this year. I'm willing to give Vigneault a pass this year, but he needs to die those two and bring in assistants who can stress a puck possession game that fits this team. He also needs to abandon dump and chase hockey and come up with better defensive structures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: If he blossoms elsewhere, good for him, but I don't think it's going to happen here. I don't either I just don't see any urgency or fire in his game what so ever. It is why I say let's move on while his value is as high as it is going to be right now. Happy to be wrong but I just don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 @BobbyClarkeFan16 @OccamsRazor there is definitely risk associated with "hoping" Patrick pans out. Right now, he isn't even a valuable trade asset. The fact he's played so invisibly would make him cheap to sign, but how much time is enough ? especially if he's going to tread water as a barely 30 point guy. He's not a guy you count on or build around. And that's a shame for all parties, the player and the team. I don't even know how a scout would project his ceiling anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: @BobbyClarkeFan16 @OccamsRazor there is definitely risk associated with "hoping" Patrick pans out. Right now, he isn't even a valuable trade asset. The fact he's played so invisibly would make him cheap to sign, but how much time is enough ? especially if he's going to tread water as a barely 30 point guy. He's not a guy you count on or build around. And that's a shame for all parties, the player and the team. I don't even know how a scout would project his ceiling anymore. Yeah I can't say how this will end up. You'd think there would be a team will a collection of picks who would be willing to take a chance. I would take a 2nd to move on. Sure it's low but there isn't a huge body of work to go on. Hey maybe you have a chance to swing a deal with Seattle when the time is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I don't even know how a scout would project his ceiling anymore. Unless you're familiar with his day-to-day I guess it's impossible to judge what his hockey future is, or if he even has one. I expect Fletcher and the coaches know what they're doing with him, or trying to do with him...that they're working a plan that Patrick is aware of and that he's following. The Flyers invested a lot in him and I imagine they're still treating him as a valuable asset. For how much longer is anybody's guess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I hate to say it, but I think Patrick is going to be as good as we're seeing and that's not very good at all. Looking back at 2017, it's not really a "great" draft. The #1 overall is pretty much a 20/50 guy so far in his career. That's better than Patrick, but that's not what one might "expect" from a 1 overall. It's slightly less productive than Konecny, actually... 20/20 hindsight and they probably take Makar or Pettterrrsssonnnn but honestly nobody was talking about them at 1/2 at the time. Somebody - for the life of me I can't remember who - wanted Heiskanen. Patrick's a young, cheap option for them at the moment and there's no real imperative to walk away. I don't think he's "blocking" anyone at the moment and if he, like Laughton, develops at a slower pace they could wind up with a solid middle six guy with upside. Again, not what you want from a #2 overall, but better than nothing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: You mean for some of this one season, right? Well ,for JVR in general ...its the most effort I have seen from him something e the 2010 playoffs vs Boston. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, radoran said: Again, not what you want from a #2 overall, but better than nothing. Imagine how bad they would be looking right now had the Devils not taken Zacha and taken Ivan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 hours ago, FD19372 said: Even if we have to retain some of Jake's salary, he needs to be traded. Way too much money for a highly inconsistent, second line winger. Absolutely, we not only will have to retain salary but also throw in a pick or prospect. Whatever it takes, just get rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Imagine how bad they would be looking right now had the Devils not taken Zacha and taken Ivan... Image taking Rantanen instead of Provorov? Serve. Volley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, radoran said: Image taking Rantanen instead of Provorov? Serve. Volley. That is a good one but I like Ivan better. Just look at my sig picture and you'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: He had a streak last year too before the shutdown. Ebbs and flows of the career. But I will say he has been way more productive than the other 2nd overall pick. Sure, ones 22 and the other 31. But one also makes 847 grand and may have some upside...the other makes 7 million a year. Patrick is being paid about 100 grand a point...JVR about 212 grand. He's leading the team in scoring, but I also won't be surprised if he ends up 6th or 7th. They both have 2 points over the last 10 games. Neither has been a 2nd overall of the ages. As for trading Patrick for a 2nd rounder...personally I'd take my chances on hoping he gets his game back. Over the past 10 years our 2nd rounders have resulted in Emil Andrea, Bobby Brink, Adam Ginning, Isacc Ratcliffe, Laberge, Hart, Allison, NAK, Hagg and Stolarz. That's a grand total of one great pick so far...and a few let's hope sos. A 1st might be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Over the past 10 years our 2nd rounders have resulted in Emil Andrea, Bobby Brink, Adam Ginning, Isacc Ratcliffe, Laberge, Hart, Allison, NAK, Hagg and Stolarz. That's a grand total of one great pick so far...and a few let's hope sos. Well can always get Homer back as GM and then he can just trade the picks away so they won't be bust....right. 14 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: But one also makes 847 grand and may have some upside. Let hope so right.... ...we'll by this time next year that 2nd round pick offer may turn into only a 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well can always get Homer back as GM and then he can just trade the picks away so they won't be bust....right. I honestly think I'd just stop watching Philly altogether. Maybe take up knitting or yoga...or just drink heavily. More heavily. 19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Let hope so right.... ...we'll by this time next year that 2nd round pick offer may turn into only a 3rd. I think you'll still get a 2nd...unless those migraines came roaring back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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