Game 54: Flyers at Capitals; 5/7/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[OccamsRazor]

19 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Im just saying lets not annoint them or give them keys to the castle just yet

 

It's something positive with all this negative surrounding the team I am tied of talking about.

 

Got to have some good too.

[RonJeremy]

4 hours ago, CoachX said:

And yet youre ready to make Allison and Farabee core offensive players and central pieces to the power play

That’s right I am, because our PP has been horrible or mediocre for 10 years with G and Voracek. If you just observe you can see Allison is a perfect PP guy to jam the crease like Simmonds used to and Farabee is our best goal scorer. So with two PP units , I guarantee you both those guys will get PP duty. These guys are shooters that’s what you need for a successful PP, not guys who pass the puck around and kill of their own PP.

[RonJeremy]

4 hours ago, CoachX said:

Yeah, and last season NAK looked like he was going to be an impact player, and Sanhiem/myers were stud D men

Yeah and the whole team sucked balls this year, except for Farabee and Coots. So are we getting rid of the whole team ? Patrick missed a whole year ,so why write him off when guys who missed no time also sucked this year. Patrick is worth nothing in a trade, so sign him to another cheap 1 year deal and see how it goes, he is talented, whether he can put it together by next year, we will see. You can still get nothing for him next year too if someone beats him out at camp or if he does not improve drastically.
 

Some players we want gone for sure like Jake and I wouldn’t re-sign Giroux unless it was real cheap.  Ghost or JVR will probably be taken by Seattle. So we will have a competitive camp and some people will lose their jobs. Guys who looked good and suddenly suck, that describes almost our whole team, there is something going on with the team that we don’t know about. Almost everybody regressed big time, is it the coaching and lack of leadership from the vets, who knows.  I expect a big improvement from a lot of guys next year. You gotta have competition for jobs next year, if there are trades to improve the team, then great, but if all our players suck like you say, then we are not gonna get much in a trade with a flat cap and most teams near the limit.

Edited May 11, 2021 by RonJeremy

[tucson83]

i think anyone that really thinks that fletch isnt going to do anything, they really have to calm down for minute because i dont believe that for a minute because there's alot of money to be lost if they bring the same team back, i find that hard to believe unless they want to sell the team.

 

the other thing is we cant blow up the roster and rebuild tru the draft because that's tanking and alot of teams that have done that makes it very difficult for big fas to sign because they want to win and not be part of a losing team. for what im gathering about these press conferences, they want to win but they cant say well, we are going to sell the core team because that's just bad business and no one will want our guys and not to menion the fas will not sign here as result they think it's a bad culture of how they treat their core players.

 

i do believe they want to get younger but they also want to get better by selling off the big contracts and using that to upgrade this roster from fa or trades. right now there's too much money against cap for us to even make a big move and fletch saying he needs defense and goaltending that needs we have to sell off some big contracts to fix the defense and goaltending.

 

is hart going to be the guy? i dont know and i wouldnt throw alot of money at him either, something is off with him, hopefully they can fix it but i really think they are going to go after another starter because we just dont know how hart really is because if he's bad next year and we dont get another starter, this team could be in serious trouble maybe a lottery team.

 

having another starter wont hurt hart, i think it help him alot by taking the pressure off, i think he's just too young to handle the pressure and maybe in a few years he will be good enough to be a starter so im not writing him off, i just think he needs work and time to get it right without being pressured into it.

[SCFlyguy]

We should trade Couturier.  He's my favorite Flyer, but his tread is going to be worn thin in 3-5 more years when this team has a shot to be good again and he will be making $8M for another 3-5 years after that if we re-sign again.

 

Trade him and get back several picks and prospects who will be ready on a timeline consistent with the rest of this team.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

We should trade Couturier.  He's my favorite Flyer, but his tread is going to be worn thin in 3-5 more years when this team has a shot to be good again and he will be making $8M for another 3-5 years after that if we re-sign again.

 

Trade him and get back several picks and prospects who will be ready on a timeline consistent with the rest of this team.

I have said many times , he is our most valuable trade chip and would get us the biggest return. If we are complete stuck with Jake and Hayes for god knows how many more years, then it almost makes sense to dump Coots if a true rebuild on offense is what we are doing. Otherwise you will have three 28- 32 players making 8 million each and starting to diminish in productivity. Hayes and Coots are similar players as it is. If there is an amazing deal to be had for Coots, I would certainly listen, something similar to when we traded Recchi for Desjardin and LeClair. It would have to be a franchise changing deal.

[SCFlyguy]

God, I forgot about Hayes.  I haven't seen one dip$hit on here who argued he was a good signing come back and admit they were wrong.  Cowards.

 

The best thing you can say about Hayes is that he'll help us get better draft position for years to come.

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

God, I forgot about Hayes.  I haven't seen one dip$hit on here who argued he was a good signing come back and admit they were wrong.  Cowards.

 

The best thing you can say about Hayes is that he'll help us get better draft position for years to come.

There are a few more years before an honest assessment of that signing can be made.

 

Last year the signing was good- this year his was typical of the team's performance. 

 

At the worst the signing is a wash in year two.

 

YMMV

 

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

God, I forgot about Hayes.  I haven't seen one dip$hit on here who argued he was a good signing come back and admit they were wrong.  Cowards.

 

The best thing you can say about Hayes is that he'll help us get better draft position for years to come.

We almost have to have a Bill Belechek  mentality, at most you can re-sign two top guys when they hit 28 or 29 . You determine who is most valuable and who you think will be productive as an older player based on conditioning and lifestyle, etc... the rest you trade for prospects and picks and rebuild on the fly. Once you are saddled with a bunch of high priced ,aging ,fading players with long term contracts you are doomed. We have JVR, Jake ,Hayes and soon Coots, that’s four big contracts, with multiple years to go. G has one year left, we really can’t afford to re-sign him , if we wanted to.  He had a solid year , certainly not worth 8 million. Since Hayes is getting 8 million you know damn well Coots is gonna want that. So I would assume Seattle takes JVR or Ghost. How in gods name are we gonna get rid of Jake, I’m sure everyone would rather keep JVR over Jake. Maybe we can convince the Seattle Krackheads to take Jake, if we throw in a pick or prospect.

[FD19372]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

We almost have to have a Bill Belechek  mentality, at most you can re-sign two top guys when they hit 28 or 29 . You determine who is most valuable and who you think will be productive as an older player based on conditioning and lifestyle, etc... the rest you trade for prospects and picks and rebuild on the fly. Once you are saddled with a bunch of high priced ,aging ,fading players with long term contracts you are doomed. We have JVR, Jake ,Hayes and soon Coots, that’s four big contracts, with multiple years to go. G has one year left, we really can’t afford to re-sign him , if we wanted to.  He had a solid year , certainly not worth 8 million. Since Hayes is getting 8 million you know damn well Coots is gonna want that. So I would assume Seattle takes JVR or Ghost. How in gods name are we gonna get rid of Jake, I’m sure everyone would rather keep JVR over Jake. Maybe we can convince the Seattle Krackheads to take Jake, if we throw in a pick or prospect.

I'm OK with giving up Cates, Sandin or Andrae. Nothing more than a mid-level, decent prospect.

[FD19372]

^I meant...to go along with Jale, to make his acquisition more tolerable for the other team.

[CoachX]

7 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Yeah and the whole team sucked balls this year, except for Farabee and Coots. So are we getting rid of the whole team ? Patrick missed a whole year ,so why write him off when guys who missed no time also sucked this year. Patrick is worth nothing in a trade, so sign him to another cheap 1 year deal and see how it goes, he is talented, whether he can put it together by next year, we will see. You can still get nothing for him next year too if someone beats him out at camp or if he does not improve drastically.
 

Some players we want gone for sure like Jake and I wouldn’t re-sign Giroux unless it was real cheap.  Ghost or JVR will probably be taken by Seattle. So we will have a competitive camp and some people will lose their jobs. Guys who looked good and suddenly suck, that describes almost our whole team, there is something going on with the team that we don’t know about. Almost everybody regressed big time, is it the coaching and lack of leadership from the vets, who knows.  I expect a big improvement from a lot of guys next year. You gotta have competition for jobs next year, if there are trades to improve the team, then great, but if all our players suck like you say, then we are not gonna get much in a trade with a flat cap and most teams near the limit.

Fine. Have it your way. Farabee and allison should be on a line with patrick. They should also anchor the power play so they can resurrect provy as a pp qb. Our prayers are answered

 

I bow to your genius

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by CoachX

[RonJeremy]

8 hours ago, CoachX said:

Fine. Have it your way. Farabee and allison should be on a line with patrick. They should also anchor the power play so they can resurrect provy as a pp qb. Our prayers are answered

 

I bow to your genius

 

 

You are such a tool, my comments have logic and reasoning. Your comments are based on anger and disappointment.  You bow to my genius ,...it’s just logical thinking and observation, something you completely lack. It’s quite obvious theta on the PP, all they do is pass the puck around for two minutes and barely get off any shots. That’s why we are gonna have a couple of actual shooters on the PP next year. Unless we acquire Mike Bossy, odds are that Farabee and Allison will be on the PP next year just based on their style of play. You enjoy arguing just for the sake of it. Our whole PP needs to be revamped , not only some of the players but the whole predictable formula. You are aware there are two PP units , so who on the Flyers are potential PP guys....G, Jake, JVR, TK, Farabee and Allison ...Farabee and Allison go to the net and have finishing ability, that’s why they will be on the PP.

[tucson83]

19 hours ago, CoachX said:

I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course you factor allison. But he hasnt even made it out of camp yet. And i expect Farabee to be even better, but how many times has that backfired (TK is a fime example)

 

I hope and expect these could be guys we build on, and that the dead weight gets jettisoned. Im just saying lets not annoint them or give them keys to the castle just yet

that's the thing, we are always overspending on role players and not stars, that's what all of these players are, they are not difference makers, not unless you come across a rare player in pasta from the bruins that scores over 30 goals every season, that's the guy you pay the big money. we are a 500 team, that's what we are until we get a difference maker that's why we have to get aggressive in trading for those guys and not relying on unproven prospects to be those guys and im saying they can play but we cant put them in that position unless they prove it in a few years they can like with pasta.

[CoachX]

What a grown up respinse. Name calling and insults. Well done

 

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

my comments have logic and reasoning. Your comments are based on anger and disappointment.

I'm not sure you read my comments. Not that I expect you to, because you might actually understand what I wrote, but if you go back and read, you will see my comments were that we should tap the brakes on what they should do next year, or how good these young players might be. This is based off how many times a player young flyer player has shown promise, then we all get excited, only to see him crap the bed the next season, and we all jump of a ledge. I think I even referenced NAK last season, TK, Sanheim, Myers. OR, who's opinion I highly value, was very high on NAK last season, and he and I argued this ad nauseum. This season, he has on numerous occasions, had to express his disappointment.

 

So, since you like to put words in my mouth and decide on your own how I feel, please show me where my comments are based on anger and disappointment

 

I read your points, and I don't disagree with any of it. But I'm not debating any of that anymore. Players need to go. There are players I personally don't like. Players I do. The problem here, as I see it, you don't like for people to challenge your POV, and when they do, instead of debating points, you ignore them and go on a tirade that indicates to me the only opinion you are interested in is your own. So, since I don't see an open mind willing to even listen to someone else's opinion, I will just choose to ignore yours from now on, which is what I should have done from the onset

Edited May 12, 2021 by CoachX

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

that's the thing, we are always overspending on role players and not stars, that's what all of these players are, they are not difference makers, not unless you come across a rare player in pasta from the bruins that scores over 30 goals every season, that's the guy you pay the big money. we are a 500 team, that's what we are until we get a difference maker that's why we have to get aggressive in trading for those guys and not relying on unproven prospects to be those guys and im saying they can play but we cant put them in that position unless they prove it in a few years they can like with pasta.

yeah, I hear you. Agree with all this

 

The point I'm trying to make is, we flyer fans, are so fickle. We want a guy hung for playing bad, then he has a few good games, and we forget the season of bad. That statement was a generalization, not based in total facts. Right now, Farabee and Allison are bright spots. We don't have many, so we (forum fans), are ready to hail them as conquerors. We did the same with  almost every player who shows promise. It is indicative of our passion and commitment to a team we love, and a desire to win. Too bad the organization doesn't seem to share our views. I find it mind boggling that Provorov is already being replaced by a guy who has skated three games, and we are ready to build our power play around a kid who has played 14 games. Of course anything on the PP is better than what we have, so Allison may be great. But me personally, Im ready to just temper expectations and let things play out. My mental health deserves a break

[lynxrattle]

From the outside looking in I'd say Farabee is what you Philly fans think he is. He'd fit in any team.

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

that's the thing, we are always overspending on role players and not stars, that's what all of these players are, they are not difference makers, not unless you come across a rare player in pasta from the bruins that scores over 30 goals every season, that's the guy you pay the big money. we are a 500 team, that's what we are until we get a difference maker that's why we have to get aggressive in trading for those guys and not relying on unproven prospects to be those guys and im saying they can play but we cant put them in that position unless they prove it in a few years they can like with pasta.

 

this is not wrong per se, in the salary cap era a team needs find the right guys to pay the big money.

Every team must rely on unproven young guys to fill in the gaps. 

There isn't a McDavid in the draft every year, hell there are years when there isn't even a Barzal. 

So given that generational talents aren't available every year, hence the description, it would make sense to try to build a team with a lot of good players, the way the Islanders and Hurricanes have. 

 

If your premise is the Flyers missed the mark 8 years ago it is valid. Giroux needed a better running mate than Voracek. 

 

The hard part is identifying the guys to build around especially when a team is drafting, developing and creating relationships with the players. 

Sucking for Bedard or McDavid only guarantees sucking in the short term. Hell we just "lucked" into the #2 overall pick and no one is sure that guy is even worth offering a prove it contract too.   

 

In the salary cap era the scouting player development departments of a team are maybe the most important.

The Flyers have not the best success growing their players until recently. They are new at this because of  all the years Mr Snider was writing big checks for "star" players and not paying attention to the organizations roots.

We're living in the detritus of years of poor decisions.

It's not "find a Pastarnak" that needs to happen it's make 6 Marchands...

[tucson83]

19 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

this is not wrong per se, in the salary cap era a team needs find the right guys to pay the big money.

Every team must rely on unproven young guys to fill in the gaps. 

There isn't a McDavid in the draft every year, hell there are years when there isn't even a Barzal. 

So given that generational talents aren't available every year, hence the description, it would make sense to try to build a team with a lot of good players, the way the Islanders and Hurricanes have. 

 

If your premise is the Flyers missed the mark 8 years ago it is valid. Giroux needed a better running mate than Voracek. 

 

The hard part is identifying the guys to build around especially when a team is drafting, developing and creating relationships with the players. 

Sucking for Bedard or McDavid only guarantees sucking in the short term. Hell we just "lucked" into the #2 overall pick and no one is sure that guy is even worth offering a prove it contract too.   

 

In the salary cap era the scouting player development departments of a team are maybe the most important.

The Flyers have not the best success growing their players until recently. They are new at this because of  all the years Mr Snider was writing big checks for "star" players and not paying attention to the organizations roots.

We're living in the detritus of years of poor decisions.

It's not "find a Pastarnak" that needs to happen it's make 6 Marchands...

even if we get mcdavid and bedard, it's not a lock to make the finals in one year, it will probably take another 5 years to make it to the finals, it took the pens five years when they got crosby. so sucking for a star player isnt really a good idea either.

 

it's just everything has to go right for this team to win the cup, hart, the young players and the vets, it just didnt work out this year.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, lynxrattle said:

From the outside looking in I'd say Farabee is what you Philly fans think he is. He'd fit in any team.

 

Yes. He was on pace for a 30 goal season so it is nice to finally have a home grown 30 goal scorer on the team other than Coots.

 

Well JVR is here to but that is about all he even brings.

 

The future looks bright for the kid.

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, CoachX said:

What a grown up respinse. Name calling and insults. Well done

 

I'm not sure you read my comments. Not that I expect you to, because you might actually understand what I wrote, but if you go back and read, you will see my comments were that we should tap the brakes on what they should do next year, or how good these young players might be. This is based off how many times a player young flyer player has shown promise, then we all get excited, only to see him crap the bed the next season, and we all jump of a ledge. I think I even referenced NAK last season, TK, Sanheim, Myers. OR, who's opinion I highly value, was very high on NAK last season, and he and I argued this ad nauseum. This season, he has on numerous occasions, had to express his disappointment.

 

So, since you like to put words in my mouth and decide on your own how I feel, please show me where my comments are based on anger and disappointment

 

I read your points, and I don't disagree with any of it. But I'm not debating any of that anymore. Players need to go. There are players I personally don't like. Players I do. The problem here, as I see it, you don't like for people to challenge your POV, and when they do, instead of debating points, you ignore them and go on a tirade that indicates to me the only opinion you are interested in is your own. So, since I don't see an open mind willing to even listen to someone else's opinion, I will just choose to ignore yours from now on, which is what I should have done from the onset

I’m very hurt that you will be ignoring me, this cancel culture is out of control. .... and I have never been know for my maturity level. I can say the same about you making assumptions on my posts. Like how I’m anointing young guys as Captain.. Please feel free to call me names and insult me, I find it funny . The difference between you and me is , I put my insults right out there in plain English, you hide yours behind passive aggressive condescending remarks like saying how you bow to my genius and for me to STFU via a story about your grandmother . I can read between the lines .  I called you a tool after that last comment about bowing down....Have a pair of balls and just come out and insult me ,I thrive on it. You allow your personal dislike of certain players to cloud your judgment .Why do we need to hit the brakes on what we should do next year? The season is over and so why not talk about potential situations for next year. Is there a rule that I am unaware of that we are forbidden to speculate on next season? Maybe You can be like a Facebook fact checker for this forum and ban all my posts because they are too truthful for the overly sensitive to handle.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

I have never been know for my maturity level. I can say the same about you making assumptions on my posts. Like how I’m anointing young guys as Captain

In my post I said, "I hope we havent anointed Farabee or Allison the next captain". As you can see that was not directed specifically at you. As for my "grandma" story, it was meant as a joke. Considering how you like to boast about how you aren't sensitive or easily offended, I find it interesting that you seem to be bugged by the joke. Why else would you bring it up?

 

As for the insults, no thanks! I choose not to engage in childish behavior. If in your word that means I have "no balls", so be it. In my world it just means you lack respect and common courtesy (unless directed at Leaf or Pens fans). So, you do you. Fine by me

 

It is an interesting POV when you say my "judgement" is clouded by players I don't like. I thought I was giving opinions. Nothing I type has any effect on what the franchise does, so I don't need "judgement". And to this point, I also find it interesting that you are passing off your opinions as "truthful". I'm sure they are, I doubt you are posting lies about the things you feel. But one persons opinion is no more truthful than another's, and facts exist to help shape those. So you can relax, no one is getting banned or fact checked. This is a hockey forum, not CNN vs FOX News

 

 

 

[RonJeremy]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

In my post I said, "I hope we havent anointed Farabee or Allison the next captain". As you can see that was not directed specifically at you. As for my "grandma" story, it was meant as a joke. Considering how you like to boast about how you aren't sensitive or easily offended, I find it interesting that you seem to be bugged by the joke. Why else would you bring it up?

 

As for the insults, no thanks! I choose not to engage in childish behavior. If in your word that means I have "no balls", so be it. In my world it just means you lack respect and common courtesy (unless directed at Leaf or Pens fans). So, you do you. Fine by me

 

It is an interesting POV when you say my "judgement" is clouded by players I don't like. I thought I was giving opinions. Nothing I type has any effect on what the franchise does, so I don't need "judgement". And to this point, I also find it interesting that you are passing off your opinions as "truthful". I'm sure they are, I doubt you are posting lies about the things you feel. But one persons opinion is no more truthful than another's, and facts exist to help shape those. So you can relax, no one is getting banned or fact checked. This is a hockey forum, not CNN vs FOX News

 

 

 

It was the bowing at my genius comment that got me, the grandma comment was fine , but after this one , you have to admit you do make condescending remarks...and P.S. Fox is not part of the cancel culture , that’s strictly a left wing policy. Have a splendid day.