Cam York, thoughts?

[mojo1917]

The season was a perfect **** storm where nearly everything that could go poorly did. 

If I wasn't hoping for more, it would have been comical. Like Mr Bean, Jerry Lewis comedy of errors funny, not Robot Chicken funny. 

 

I don't think Provorov can carry a pair.

He doesn't have "it". Cam York has "it", nothing flusters that guy in 3 NHL games. 

I know there were small stakes in the games he played, but he still played NHL players and looked comfortable. I can't remember any of our defensemen keeping pucks in the zone the way he did this season, Ghost was okay at it, York knew where the clear was going, and he would get there. When Bratt tried to go wide on him and had a step, he somehow tied him up enough to push him past the cage.

Seems to me like he's only going to get better and more confident from here. 

It was fun to watch him play.

Also fun to watch play were Allison and Farabee. 

 

[SCFlyguy]

33 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He doesn't have "it". Cam York has "it", nothing flusters that guy in 3 NHL games. 

This is the funniest thing I've ever read.

 

We should probably just give him 3 Norris Trophies and couple of Stanley Cups, too.

[mojo1917]

Just now, SCFlyguy said:

This is the funniest thing I've ever read.

 

We should probably just give him 3 Norris Trophies and couple of Stanley Cups, too.

 

This is a thread where the term veegeencepholitis was coined... which is hilarious.

So this leads me to believe you must not read very much or need to find some more funny friends

 

I would be fine if Cam wound up winning some hardware, how about you?

 

To elaborate on my point a little though, some people have star quality/ability and some people don't. 

I don't ever remember seeing Provorov slow the game down and control it the way I saw York do it in college and in his first 3 games in the NHL. One would think a rookie would come into the league and want to fit in and this guy looks like he wants to make the game his bitch. 

I've watched Provorov for years in the NHL. He doesn't have the "thing" that York does when it comes to being calm with the puck. 

Ivan has loads of skill and physical gifts, he doesn't have the mentality make the game come to him.

that's what I'm saying.

 

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

I think we've overrated Provorov for years - and I like Provorov a lot.

 

I'm just laughing that you are able to make these determinations after 3 NHL games.

 

Did you think the same thing about Luca Sbisa?

[mojo1917]

8 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

I think we've overrated Provorov for years - and I like Provorov a lot.

 

I'm just laughing that you are able to make these determinations after 3 NHL games.

 

Did you think the same thing about Luca Sbisa?

No. I didn't see Sbisa play other than the NHL. 

I have seen some of York's play in world juniors and @ Michigan. 

I'm not basing my opinion on just 3 NHL games.

I didn't think I would see him be the player that controlled the games for the gold medal winning US national team in the NHL for a few years.

I'm surprised by it. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

veegeencephalitis simplex 2893.

 

 

FIFY

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

 

I don't think Provorov can carry a pair.

He doesn't have "it". Cam York has "it", nothing flusters that guy in 3 NHL games. 

I know there were small stakes in the games he played, but he still played NHL players and looked comfortable. I can't remember any of our defensemen keeping pucks in the zone the way he did this season, Ghost was okay at it, York knew where the clear was going, and he would get there. When Bratt tried to go wide on him and had a step, he somehow tied him up enough to push him past the cage.

Seems to me like he's only going to get better and more confident from here. 

It was fun to watch him play.

Also fun to watch play were Allison and Farabee. 

 

 

 So just to be clear...Ivan Provorov, who tied for the  league lead in goals for a dman (tied) a couple seasons ago and scored 13 last year, while playing solid defence doesn't have it? But Cam York of zero points in 3 games does? 

 

 I'm not knocking York because he's a talented player who put up 20 points this season in the NCAA. When Provorov was Yorks age, he put up 30 points...in the NHL. 

 

 This season doesn't "make" any of these guys career.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

This is the funniest thing I've ever read.

 

We should probably just give him 3 Norris Trophies and couple of Stanley Cups, too.

 

Only if we're pro-rating.

[ruxpin]

50 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

FIFY

 

 

 

 

Thank you.   I saw the typo right before seeing this (based on mojo's quote).   I'm irritated with it and can't edit.

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 So just to be clear...Ivan Provorov, who tied for the  league lead in goals for a dman (tied) a couple seasons ago and scored 13 last year, while playing solid defence doesn't have it? But Cam York of zero points in 3 games does? 

 

 I'm not knocking York because he's a talented player who put up 20 points this season in the NCAA. When Provorov was Yorks age, he put up 30 points...in the NHL. 

 

 This season doesn't "make" any of these guys career.

Exactly,  **** that guy.

 

More seriously read what I'm saying.

Provorov is one of my favorite players.

However,  He doesn't control the game in the same way that a true top pairing player does...Am I wrong?

 

Hedman, Josi, Weber,  Keith and Drew m-fing Doughty and now Adam Fox,  have the game on their sticks when they're on the ice. 

York has more of that feel than Provorov already,  regardless of how many goals Ivan scores.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

  He doesn't control the game in the same way that a true top pairing player does...Am I wrong?

 

He hasn't lately or better this year.

 

But it is in him we just don't get to see that side of him much. Not sure why.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He doesn't control the game in the same way that a true top pairing player does...Am I wrong?

 

The last time i remember seeing this from him but no denying kid has some skill not what i will take to see it more often.

 

 

Man if i could do something like this you would have a harder time trying to get me to stop.

 

But that's just me....

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The last time i remember seeing this from him but no denying kid has some skill not what i will take to see it more often.

 

 

Man if i could do something like this you would have a harder time trying to get me to stop.

 

But that's just me....

My favorite goal of his to date. 

Great awareness of who is in front of him and an awesome move.

 

[radoran]

4 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Ivan has loads of skill and physical gifts, he doesn't have the mentality make the game come to him.

that's what I'm saying.

 

Yeah I don't think his thing is playing with the puck.

 

He's a top pair but not neceasadily #1/PP guy. That's where Niskanen really helped.

 

If he turns out to have something like an Ekholm career with upside I think that's around where he is. With upside.

 

The interesting thing is the way no one in the media really even brings his name up. Shows how many bigger concerns the organization* has.

[CoachX]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 So just to be clear...Ivan Provorov, who tied for the  league lead in goals for a dman (tied) a couple seasons ago and scored 13 last year, while playing solid defence doesn't have it? But Cam York of zero points in 3 games does? 

 

 I'm not knocking York because he's a talented player who put up 20 points this season in the NCAA. When Provorov was Yorks age, he put up 30 points...in the NHL. 

 

 This season doesn't "make" any of these guys career.

I was about to respond in a similar fashion. York skates 3 games and now he is better than Provy? The same "PROVOCOP" that was hailed as one of the Flyers best homegrown defensive players EVER! The guy many saw as a next captain candidate.

 

I think the word im thinking of is "fickle"

 

 

[flyercanuck]

9 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Exactly,  **** that guy.

 

More seriously read what I'm saying.

Provorov is one of my favorite players.

However,  He doesn't control the game in the same way that a true top pairing player does...Am I wrong?

 

Hedman, Josi, Weber,  Keith and Drew m-fing Doughty and now Adam Fox,  have the game on their sticks when they're on the ice. 

York has more of that feel than Provorov already,  regardless of how many goals Ivan scores.

 

 

 

 Al Hill scored 2 goals and 3 assists in his first ever NHL game for the Flyers. Ghost looked like he was going to be one of the games top offensive dmen. The first guy is who? and the second guy might be gone. Provorov, along with every other player not named Farabee had the season from hell this year. 

 

 York has talent, no doubt. But lets let the guy play some games. 

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Al Hill scored 2 goals and 3 assists in his first ever NHL game for the Flyers. Ghost looked like he was going to be one of the games top offensive dmen. The first guy is who? and the second guy might be gone. Provorov, along with every other player not named Farabee had the season from hell this year. 

 

 York has talent, no doubt. But lets let the guy play some games. 

 

Alright Pissy McPissypants,

I get your point.  It's a good one, and I agree in big picture.

 

But give us 10 minutes to be excited about a kid, would'ya?  Mine isn't because of the 3 games, though it was brief confirmation of what I saw in WCJ and college.   It's because of WCJ & college  I know, it's college. It's not the Bumbfk Bears in the WHL or something.   But he really stood out in the WCJ tourney.    And in Michigan.   So give us 10 minutes.

 

On the other hand, I do think what you're saying is valid particularly as it relates to the Provy comparisons.   Because Provy did show that poise when he first came up.  Two years ago, that disappeared.  It was back to a great extent last year and now this past year has disappeared again.   Largely, I think, due to sober, competent veteran help next to him.    But also due to basic group psychology -- something York has not yet been exposed to over a span of a season or even 5 games.    The way this season progressed for the Flyers had to be soul crushing.   It's hard to say which came first the chicken or the egg (it's always the egg, btw), but even early on things were off.  As they won, but the message even among themselves was "yeah, but..." the sticks get gripped tighter, you start trying to get rid of the puck quickly, you react without thought and in ways that are self-destructive, etc.   And this builds on itself.  Add to that the sheer exhaustion that this season's schedule produced, add in COVID, and the mindset and growing sense of group panic and almost depression exploded into the utter **** show that was the second half of the season.    Where any adversity became an insurmountable assault on the psyche and any success was fleeting and -- subconsciously if not overtly--considered almost accidental and undeserved.

 

So, York--probably better than average in terms of hockey sense and confidence, etc.--came in with a healthy outlook and his positives were accentuated next to his zombiefied teammates.   So, it exaggerated some his positives.   Even a 60W bulb seems a crap ton brighter when it's suddenly lit in a room where you've been sitting in the dark for hours.      Similar with Allison, by the way.   His goofy, upbeat, "this is so fricken cool to be here!" attitude is probably him at heart, but it shown brighter next to the bodies strewn on the lawns of Jonestown.  

 

So, I don't think based on college and WCJ we anoint him better than Provy.   I don't think we necessarily say Provy is better, either.   I don't think we have reasonable data.  All we have is the anecdotal evidence of 3 games of watching a healthy kid walking around an ICU and saying, "oh my God, someone who walks and urinates on his own!"

Edited May 12, 2021 by ruxpin

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

But lets let the guy play some games. 

 

 

And......then we can trade him? 

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

But give us 10 minutes to be excited about a kid, would'ya?

 

No.

 

We are only allowing blow it the fcuk up talk for the next few months.

 

When you are allow to make cheerful positive hopeful outlooks you will be contact through mail....about your car's extended warranty...no seriously.

 

REPORTED!!!!

 

Good morning ready to start the new day.

 

Is Jake still a Flyer? Wut?

 

I'm going back to sleep...

 

[SCFlyguy]

It's pretty clear that Provorov is really a solid #2 with flashes, but not really a true #1.

 

This means he's one of the Flyers' best homegrown defensemen of all time.

 

Cam York is still using Medac for his pimples and we're all ready to predict his career.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

Alright Pissy McPissypants,

I get your point.  It's a good one, and I agree in big picture.

 

But give us 10 minutes to be excited about a kid, would'ya?  Mine isn't because of the 3 games, though it was brief confirmation of what I saw in WCJ and college.   It's because of WCJ & college  I know, it's college. It's not the Bumbfk Bears in the WHL or something.   But he really stood out in the WCJ tourney.    And in Michigan.   So give us 10 minutes.

 

On the other hand, I do think what you're saying is valid particularly as it relates to the Provy comparisons.   Because Provy did show that poise when he first came up.  Two years ago, that disappeared.  It was back to a great extent last year and now this past year has disappeared again.   Largely, I think, due to sober, competent veteran help next to him.    But also due to basic group psychology -- something York has not yet been exposed to over a span of a season or even 5 games.    The way this season progressed for the Flyers had to be soul crushing.   It's hard to say which came first the chicken or the egg (it's always the egg, btw), but even early on things were off.  As they won, but the message even among themselves was "yeah, but..." the sticks get gripped tighter, you start trying to get rid of the puck quickly, you react without thought and in ways that are self-destructive, etc.   And this builds on itself.  Add to that the sheer exhaustion that this season's schedule produced, add in COVID, and the mindset and growing sense of group panic and almost depression exploded into the utter **** show that was the second half of the season.    Where any adversity became an insurmountable assault on the psyche and any success was fleeting and -- subconsciously if not overtly--considered almost accidental and undeserved.

 

So, York--probably better than average in terms of hockey sense and confidence, etc.--came in with a healthy outlook and his positives were accentuated next to his zombiefied teammates.   So, it exaggerated some his positives.   Even a 60W bulb seems a crap ton brighter when it's suddenly lit in a room where you've been sitting in the dark for hours.      Similar with Allison, by the way.   His goofy, upbeat, "this is so fricken cool to be here!" attitude is probably him at heart, but it shown brighter next to the bodies strewn on the lawns of Jonestown.  

 

So, I don't think based on college and WCJ we anoint him better than Provy.   I don't think we necessarily say Provy is better, either.   I don't think we have reasonable data.  All we have is the anecdotal evidence of 3 games of watching a healthy kid walking around an ICU and saying, "oh my God, someone who walks and urinates on his own!"

has anyone ever told you you are a smart cookie?

 

Not that I'm saying that.....asking for a friend

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

We are only allowing blow it the fcuk up talk for the next few months.

[mojo1917]

5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Al Hill scored 2 goals and 3 assists in his first ever NHL game for the Flyers. Ghost looked like he was going to be one of the games top offensive dmen. The first guy is who? and the second guy might be gone. Provorov, along with every other player not named Farabee had the season from hell this year. 

 

 York has talent, no doubt. But lets let the guy play some games. 

 

 

Oh definitely, He hasn't had a year of big fast guys trying to kill him, so there's going to be an adjustment period. 

I have zero illusions that he's going to come in win the Norris after 10 games. I fully anticipate him having a trough where he struggles also. I won't be bashing him in year 3 because year 2 wasn't ZOMG perfect.

As I have said repeatedly in this very thread. When I've watched him, VS his peers he has stood out and looked like a true #1, wants the game on his stick every shift he's on the ice type guy. I don't remember that with Provorov, and if he had "it" he doesn't have "it" anymore.

There are now 2 straight years where Ivan has looked less like the man and more like a man.

So if that means he's not going to be Duncan Keith but more like Brent Seabrook with better scoring, I'm good with that, Brent was really good for a really long time.

York has looked like a version of Neidermayer or Keith to me when playing vs his peers. then immediately on his call up didn't look any different vs NHL players. 

So I won't give him the Norris today if you quit throwing a wet blanket on a potential bright spot. 

cool?

 

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

The way this season progressed for the Flyers had to be soul crushing.   It's hard to say which came first the chicken or the egg (it's always the egg, btw), but even early on things were off.  As they won, but the message even among themselves was "yeah, but..." the sticks get gripped tighter, you start trying to get rid of the puck quickly, you react without thought and in ways that are self-destructive, etc.   And this builds on itself.  Add to that the sheer exhaustion that this season's schedule produced, add in COVID, and the mindset and growing sense of group panic and almost depression exploded into the utter **** show that was the second half of the season.    Where any adversity became an insurmountable assault on the psyche and any success was fleeting and -- subconsciously if not overtly--considered almost accidental and undeserved

if only the leaders could some how have prevented this.

 

actually I think this is a great summation for what happened this year. You should have been at the end of year presser and lent your words to the management.

Edited May 12, 2021 by mojo1917

[GratefulFlyers]

23 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

It's pretty clear that Provorov is really a solid #2 with flashes, but not really a true #1.

 

I can't be as sure as that. This season...the less said the better. Just one thing - it was so below par for nearly everyone that for evaluation purposes I say throw it away.

 

I'd say Provorov's ceiling is undetermined. He's only 24 and he started in the NHL at 19 I believe. He could very well grow into the role of a "true #1 D-man." I don't think he's that far away now.

 

But my real concern is Chuckie Boy moves heaven and earth (overpays, in a word) to get that "true #1" and it's Tyson Barrie. Or Alex Goligoski. Nothing against those guys...but does Fletcher know what a #1 D-man is, or what Provorov needs? Niskanen retires and his answer was Gustafsson, a guy who played all of 24 games for the Flyers. Doesn't inspire much confidence.