Patrick hires new agent...might want oit

[CoachX]

1 minute ago, FD19372 said:

Basically, wasting money on a player that might play 10 games a season for them, at meh production. That's my point. Maybe they would, I don't know. I just know I wouldn't. He hasn't come close to living up to the second pick in the draft, hype.

good points. but if they can get a former No#2, and think he hasn't reached his ceiling with the Flyers, for 874K, they might be willing to roll the dice. It gives them more money to work with when selecting other players. Who else from the Flyers would look that valuable to them?

[OccamsRazor]

47 minutes ago, CoachX said:

again. This is my point and question. At his current salary, would Seattle be inclined to choose him. Future negotiations don't prohibit them from selecting a player

 

I would rather not expose him.

 

I'd rather they take Jake or JVR.

 

Try and trade Patrick somewhere else.

 

My cents.

[FD19372]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Try and trade Patrick somewhere else.

 

My cents.

I agree....especially now that Patrick wants a raise. I don't think that he would be a wise expansion team investment.

Edited May 15, 2021 by FD19372

[CoachX]

20 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I agree....especially now that Patrick wants a raise. I don't think that he would be a wise expansion team investment.

Patrick, with a raise, is still cheaper then Jv-Jake or JVR.

 

That said, Im totally in agreement with protecting him to force Seattle to pick from the rotten batch of apples

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Fixed.

Only if he makes it through the expansion draft.  He's perfect to leave exposed.  Though my preference is they take JVR

[CoachX]

I know JVR has that huge contract, but is he more tradeable?

 

If I had to keep a guy for another year, its Patrick. I don't care what  he says he wants. He is under contract. Play 4th line next season and earn it. If you do, we will pay you, or trade you. If you don't, walk!

 

Flyers seems to have all leverage here

[mojo1917]

Is Nolan an RFA or a UFA? 

I would offer him this year at 900k see what he does.

Essentially kick the can down the road. 

Make the definitive decision after a year where he has a regular off season, camp and season.

That may be too fair for some but the contract doesn't harm the team and still gives him an opportunity to earn a real raise.

If he digs in...he can fuxk all the way off though. 

I feel petty certain the "played all the games" is an attempt to gain some negotiating leverage.

His production hurts that position. He effectively has zero leverage. 

I would still want my agent to fight for me though.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by mojo1917

[Samifan]

Hey Patrick, if you’re not happy feel free to

 

[CoachX]

42 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Is Nolan an RFA or a UFA? 

I would offer him this year at 900k see what he does.

Essentially kick the can down the road. 

Make the definitive decision after a year where he has a regular off season, camp and season.

That may be too fair for some but the contract doesn't harm the team and still gives him an opportunity to earn a real raise.

If he digs in...he can fuxk all the way off though. 

I feel petty certain the "played all the games" is an attempt to gain some negotiating leverage.

His production hurts that position. He effectively has zero leverage. 

I would still want my agent to fight for me though.

 

Why give him anything?I would tell his agent, we arent in the business of handing out participation awards. if your client wants more money, play better

Edited May 15, 2021 by CoachX

[mojo1917]

5 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Why give him anything?I would tell his agent, we arent in the business of handing out participation awards. if your client wants more money, play better

A question I have that I don't know if there is an answer for is were there goals set for NP this year?

Was playing the full schedule an "incentive "?

There may be some back from injury benchmarks we don't know are in play.

[CoachX]

8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

A question I have that I don't know if there is an answer for is were there goals set for NP this year?

Was playing the full schedule an "incentive "?

There may be some back from injury benchmarks we don't know are in play.

ok. if so, then he should get what he earned. But I doubt anthing like that exists. Otherwise we wouldn't be reading a report about how he hired his third agent and is asking for a payraise, and for a trade

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Was playing the full schedule an "incentive "?

 

You can only have those on the entry level contract.

 

He is past that and signed a one year deal.

 

He's fcuked he doesn't have arbitration rights.

 

It is a take it or leave type deal.

 

I would certainly make the phone calls around the league to see what you could get in return. But he doesn't have much value at this point.

 

I think he would be best served in a package to somewhere out West.

 

Like Patrick, TK and Ghost to  ___________.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[OccamsRazor]

I'm going to give the kid  break.

 

The best thing the Flyers can do I think is hope he has very good offseason to actually get stronger and work on his game and come in and has great and go from there.

 

I know that flies in the face of what I have been saying but his stock is down and maybe he can improve it.

 

Other GMs have to see his 2nd worst in the entire NHL -30 and hang the phone up.

 

Call again Chuckles summer of 2022.

[CoachX]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I'm going to give the kid  break.

 

The best thing the Flyers can do I think is hope he has very good offseason to actually get stronger and work on his game and come in and has great and go from there.

 

I know that flies in the face of what I have been saying but his stock is down and maybe he can improve it.

 

Other GMs have to see his 2nd worst in the entire NHL -30 and hang the phone up.

 

Call again Chuckles summer of 2022.

I think this story be floated at this time is a ploy to see what value is there. It most likely comes from Patrick's agent, trying to see if he can generate interest in his client. I don't see what the Flyers would gain from releasing this.

 

I imagine the agent will have some talks and Chuck will get some calls. But in the end, you may be right, the best thing is to stand pat

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, CoachX said:

But in the end, you may be right, the best thing is to stand pat

 

But don't get me wrong for the right return I move him just to be over this type of drama and I don't mean no ill will towards the kid I wish him well.

 

A change of scenery might do him some good fragile players just don't do well in the pressure cooker known as Philly.

 

See Carson Wentz...once they sense you're soft they will turn on you quicker than a 27 pound turkey with a broke leg.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by OccamsRazor
And if you don't get the turkey reference ask me...

[CoachX]

Im not sure patrick is tough enough to be called soft

[mojo1917]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I'm going to give the kid  break.

 

The best thing the Flyers can do I think is hope he has very good offseason to actually get stronger and work on his game and come in and has great and go from there.

 

I know that flies in the face of what I have been saying but his stock is down and maybe he can improve it.

 

Other GMs have to see his 2nd worst in the entire NHL -30 and hang the phone up.

 

Call again Chuckles summer of 2022.

this is where I am.

To me it makes little sense to trade the guy now when he's worthless, it doesn't help the team, & represents a huge asset lost. The #2 overall pick should yield something in return. Right now what would a fair return be?  Nothing, and that's being charitable. 

So offer a little more $ "we have faith in you" and see what a regular-ish offseason and camp and season do for his game.

Try not to create a situation where the kid is resentful toward the team.

His salary isn't/won't be an issue when it comes to actually improving the team.

 

The level of vitriol the I see directed at this kid is pretty crazy,  twitter is far worse than this forum, but folks act like he's stealing their money and is an entitled brat. I don't hear him saying boo to a bee about anything, so it baffles me other than his terrible luck why so many fans want to run him out of town on a rail rather than see him actually become a good player for the team. 

 

 

[RonJeremy]

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

I thought you were gonna stop insulting me?

LOL, good one... you know I was insulting Patrick. if anything Patrick deserves a pay cut. He's value is so low it would be in the Flyers best interest to give him a half a season to see if he is gonna come anywhere near his potential or at least if he plays better it would increase his value. He's such  a wuss he won't even compete for a job. The only center that he couldn't beat out is Coots, so he would be competing with Hayes for second/ third line center. He's a typical millennial ****. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Im not sure patrick is tough enough to be called soft

 

Hard to believe the guy the Knights claimed in the last expansion draft, Bellemare who is 36 by the way scored as many goals as Voracek this past season....at a fraction of the price...

 

...maybe it can be like a 6 degrees of Jake....convincing them to take Jakob and just give Patrick a chance at Jake spot. I would do that.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by OccamsRazor
bourbon isn't working

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Im not sure patrick is tough enough to be called soft

 

Well remember he isn't an Murican so that doesn't help...

 

[OccamsRazor]

Farewell to these Flyers? Five players that may have played their last game as a Flyer

https://phillyhockeynow.com/2021/05/14/philadelphia-flyers-nolan-patrick-rumors-report-fresh-start-chuck-fletcher-frank-seravalli/

 

Guess which ones.

[OccamsRazor]

Could the draft be the spot the ball gets rolling????

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[ruxpin]

12 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

The level of vitriol the I see directed at this kid is pretty crazy,  twitter is far worse than this forum, but folks act like he's stealing their money and is an entitled brat. I don't hear him saying boo to a bee about anything, so it baffles me other than his terrible luck why so many fans want to run him out of town on a rail rather than see him actually become a good player for the team. 

 

Twitter is a cess pool. 

 

For my part, I want to trade him now. By "now," I mean "before lunch."   I don't perceive this as vitriol. My dislike of Voracek is vitriol.  My issue is, I think, a different opinion on whether he is redeemable as a Flyer. 

 

I hold zero hope that he will improve next year. I do, however, think still hoping that is a legitimate position so as a matter of asset management, I want to take advantage of that misguided belief before Patrick proves it's misguided. 

 

We are not now and not ever going to get a return that justifies the the disaster of the second overall pick.  But it is still possible (and quite likely) to get even less.  I know by low, sell high, but in this case the only high anyone will get is from whatever they've imbibed to make them believe the value will go up. 

 

Sorry, I'm not angry about this. I'm not angry at Patrick or anyone who thinks keep him because he'll magically start showing something he has literally never shown since he was drafted. 

 

The other part to this is that he has now had more agents than he has had complete seasons.  And, I mean, congrats for the full season in which you did literally nothing, but I'm not giving you a couple hundred thousand because you made poopy in the potty all by yourself. 

 

It may be his condition or his medication so I want to allow for that, but he is often completely expressionless and his eyes vacant. I have ice cubes with more fire. 

 

I see exactly nothing in this kid and if some GM does, I'm gonna find out what they want to pay for whatever it is they think they're seeing

 

I wish him well. Maybe a change helps him and he becomes 25% of the player he was supposed to be.  But it ain't happening here and it never will. 

 

Trade him or expose him.  Package him to the Kraken in a "don't take someone good" deal, but move on while you get something. 

[OccamsRazor]

32 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

For my part, I want to trade him now. By "now," I mean "before lunch."   I don't perceive this as vitriol. My dislike of Voracek is vitriol.  My issue is, I think, a different opinion on whether he is redeemable as a Flyer. 

 

Very good post by the way I'm just going to piggyback on what you said.

 

It is nothing like I have for Jake and a lot of that for Jake stems from his on ice performance and then his arrogance in the press conferences, F**K that dude.

 

35 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I hold zero hope that he will improve next year. I do, however, think still hoping that is a legitimate position so as a matter of asset management, I want to take advantage of that misguided belief before Patrick proves it's misguided. 

 

Exactly. I have very lite hope his stock will improve. It will only slide south. IMHO.

 

36 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Sorry, I'm not angry about this. I'm not angry at Patrick or anyone who thinks keep him because he'll magically start showing something he has literally never shown since he was drafted. 

 

Exactly.

 

When I watch him skate I just don't see any fire in his eyes, the want to prove he was snubbed and should have been the #1 overall. Nothing bro.

 

It's like maybe he even grew up hating the Flyers maybe and can't stand the crest on his chest maybe even. I don't know I can only go by what I see in the time he has played.

 

 

39 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I wish him well. Maybe a change helps him and he becomes 25% of the player he was supposed to be.  But it ain't happening here and it never will.

 

Yes this is what my gut is telling me.

 

So maybe a club who always has trouble finding forwards like the Preds would take a gamble on him. Why not they did on Duchene. Patrick will be a whole lot cheaper.

 

If not them maybe after the expansion you could even work something out with Seattle.

 

I just don't really want to expose him so there is hope they take some of our pricey trash.

 

Small hope.

[mojo1917]

@ruxpin

@OccamsRazor

 

These are good posts.

I don't find much merit in the "fire behind his eyes" stuff though.

 You guys would have a better opinion of him if he would appear more animated when the TV cameras find him randomly on the bench?

 

I thought the kid was on the come at the end of 19/20, then the migraine business happened.

 

He was objectively bad this year, on a team that underperformed in a spectacular manner. 

 

You both do a good job explaining where you are with him, I appreciate that.

 

Writing a person off at 22/23 never seems wise to me. That is 100% the reason for my reticence for cutting him loose.

Sometimes it's necessary though.