Patrick hires new agent...might want oit

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

@ruxpin

@OccamsRazor

 

These are good posts.

I don't find much merit in the "fire behind his eyes" stuff though.

 You guys would have a better opinion of him if he would appear more animated when the TV cameras find him randomly on the bench?

 

I thought the kid was on the come at the end of 19/20, then the migraine business happened.

 

He was objectively bad this year, on a team that underperformed in a spectacular manner. 

 

You both do a good job explaining where you are with him, I appreciate that.

 

Writing a person off at 22/23 never seems wise to me. That is 100% the reason for my reticence for cutting him loose.

Sometimes it's necessary though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hear what you're saying about writing off a kid. It's quite valid and it does make me pause. I've just reached that point, you know?  But I completely get where you are. 

 

I think I should explain the fire thing. It's not about him smiling or something on the bench.   It's great that Allison is smiling on the bench and having a good time, but it's brand new for him. And we're not all wired like that anyway. 

 

It's actually on the ice and it's really difficult to describe in typing.  But the majority of the time on the ice like when there's a pause in play or something, there's a completely vacant, absent look. And it's a look that concerns me because it seems the same whether he'd just had the best chocolate ever or was just told his entire family just died in a meat market accident. 

 

It's real. Enough that in his defense I've really considered whether it could be attributed to either his condition or his medicine.  My one close relative is an incredible artist. But she also had tremendous anxiety so was prescribed medicine. It made her completely unable to draw or paint and was creativity-suppressing.  And there was this noticeable vacant, empty look.  It went away when she came off it. 

 

But this is what I see in Patrick. It made me wonder if the migraine treatment does that. I don't know if it's that or if it's nature.  Either way, I feel like a jerk even pointing it out.  But if it's nature, it's going to defeat his ability to play hockey. If it's the meds, maybe they can be tweaked, or he may need to consider fire vs health, you know? 

 

It's not the driving complaint, mojo, but it's kind of an, "oh, and there's also this...."  

 

A lot of stuff that are not his fault. I actually feel bad for the kid on a human level.   From a business, heartless point of view, I just think move on and get what you can. And for him, change it scenery could do wonders. 

 

Could. 

[flyercanuck]

I really don't see the need to "get rid of" Nolan Patrick. He makes under a million a year. I'm not sure what his value is on the trade market but it can't be high. And for whatever pick/prospect you're going to get for him, I highly doubt they will have the upside that he holds. Health is clearly his issue. Yes he played very apprehensive, and I know all the guys wanting to run him out of town would be going balls to the wall if they were recovering from the conditions he is and playing pro hockey . 

 

 Meanwhile you've got guys making almost 10X what he is, signed for way longer, healthy, and giving basically the same effort. That's a hell of a lot more cause for concern than a guy making a bit over league minimum IMO. I'd prefer to see how he performs with a healthy start, a full camp, and some renewed confidence.  

[SCFlyguy]

I would rather have Patrick on the roster than Hayes.  The former you could send down to LV or healthy scratch and it won't matter, the latter is going to be a stone weight on the neck of this franchise at $7M+ per year for a billion years.

[OccamsRazor]

56 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

You guys would have a better opinion of him if he would appear more animated when the TV cameras find him randomly on the bench?

 

I don't give two sh its about that I want to see it on the ice hustle and piss and vinegar once in a while. As I said some motivation to show he should have been the 1st overall...something anything resembling passion for the game and the want for the puck.

 

I have NEVER seen that with him.

 

58 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I hought the kid was on the come at the end of 19/20, then the migraine business happened.

 

I mean sure he looked better than this past year but still nothing about him showed me he wants the puck more than the other team. He isn't Jake bad going through the motions when he skates but man he isn't real far off.

 

Hey if he is a Flyer in 2021-22 I hope he proved me wrong. But till he does I am trying to move him if a team is wanting him.

 

Depending on the return is what will make me pull the trigger or not.

 

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

the latter is going to be a stone weight on the neck of this franchise at $7M+ per year for a billion years.

 

We'll see. He has a NMC that comes off after this upcoming season.

 

He put up 23 goals (Jake hasn't scored that many since 2013-14 and put up 3 less goals this year than Hayes) the year before and well if we are supposed to belive Patrick will magically be better next year why should we not think Hollywood will rebound?

 

They have bigger issues at hand with the fixing the defense right now and recovering the good Carter Hart.

 

Let's remove JVR and Jake and go from there.

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

 

These are good posts.

I don't find much merit in the "fire behind his eyes" stuff though.

 You guys would have a better opinion of him if he would appear more animated when the TV cameras find him randomly on the bench?

 

I thought the kid was on the come at the end of 19/20,

Sorry, i dont find any merit in this 

 

Patrick scored 1 goal and had 5 assists from the beginning of March, through the end of the season

 

I agree with Rux and OR, I have seen nothing from him on ice that shiws he's engaged, or wants to be there. So Im interested what you saw, that is counter to that

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Sorry, i dont find any merit in this 

 

Patrick scored 1 goal and had 5 assists from the beginning of March, through the end of the season

 

I agree with Rux and OR, I have seen nothing from him on ice that shiws he's engaged, or wants to be there. So Im interested what you saw, that is counter to that

 

 It's not so much what I see.  I've watched the same team that all of you have.

I do believe that I said the young man has struggled this year,  that his play has not been good and he really has 0 leverage. 

I find the idea that someone can know a person's level of motivation simply by watching on television dubious. 

 There's a portion of this that reminds me of the criticism of Jeff Carter.  Who was thought of as a floater because he didn't make a face when he skated. Never mind he was faster than nearly everybody on the ice all the time and was a pretty decent defensive player to boot.

 The kid is cheap it doesn't hurt anything to keep him on the roster for another year I don't feel like we have seen the best he has to offer and would prefer to see that be realised in a flyers uniform than someone else's.

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by mojo1917

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I really don't see the need to "get rid of" Nolan Patrick. He makes under a million a year. I'm not sure what his value is on the trade market but it can't be high. And for whatever pick/prospect you're going to get for him, I highly doubt they will have the upside that he holds. Health is clearly his issue. Yes he played very apprehensive, and I know all the guys wanting to run him out of town would be going balls to the wall if they were recovering from the conditions he is and playing pro hockey . 

 

 Meanwhile you've got guys making almost 10X what he is, signed for way longer, healthy, and giving basically the same effort. That's a hell of a lot more cause for concern than a guy making a bit over league minimum IMO. I'd prefer to see how he performs with a healthy start, a full camp, and some renewed confidence.  

Yeah. 

 

I mean, for me it's about getting *something* for the asset before it's too late.  But I agree, there are much bigger fish to fry. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by ruxpin

[LegionOfDoom]

Some of these posts can really piss off, I mean Stupid Azz Serivalli(with all due respect Frank) the same dipshit that said he knew a friend of a friend that said that Hayes only came here reluctantly because he wanted to get paid(common locker room talk no biggy) and made it into a Philyy Phiasco.

 

And to see this regurgitated now, "Because Effin Patrick wants a raise!?"

I would want a dam raise as well from my last azz backwards deal I got, where I lost money on that terrible deal, and I would GTFO FIRE the previous agent that screwed me into putting a high incentive deal, with high risk, then a steady income deal, with some higher leverage to get paid.

 

Patrick did right to get rid of the bum.

Patrick did right(if he stated) to state as a fact he played all his full season, to squash the stupid TwatterVerse, from the dumbazz comments, who just the thought of twatter is a joke, Got Bots?(Got Milk ads) to even give that trash app any levity.

Robot001@twatter says, GTFO to (insert sucker)

 

Seriously, don't fall for stupid hearsay articles about Patrick, yes he at times looks like FU to the public, but that's his personality, he's cool to his true friends and family.

And doesn't put stock too much in others.

 

He can be a smart ass at times to the media, and should be a little more respectful then say, I ate two sandwiches today and was able to score more.

 

And no don't put him up to be exposed to KrackAgain, If he can be included in a major defensive player trade(#1 Dman) I can see pulling that trigger.

Maybe trading him for Johnny Hockey to not loose a stupid amount if we acquire him, to play maybe with Hollywood Haysee would be interesting.

 

1. Patrick got low balled on his previous incentive high deal, that was too risky for him, I can see why he got rid of that agent.

2. If that statement IS TRUE about playing a Full season, than I would state that too, for consideration of a more fair raise to my employer when the time came when your interviewing for an increase in pay.(That was an initial major concern is that he couldn't stay healthy for a year and was made of glass[untrue:])

3, This year has too many curveballs in it to put much stock on many things.

Some people can handle adversity like a champ, others fall and get hurt and learn from it and try to be better prepared, allot of our youth are still kids mentally, just because they have a paycheck doesn't change the fact that they're mentally not mature yet and can't properly handle our upside down society with all the depression hitting, social access loneliness, these youth are in, (CIP: Hart)

Patrick knows he doesn't have much leverage, and would do him well to buckle up, put in the summer work, get stronger and more explosive and build up his stamina.

He should be getting a NHL/NHLPA agreed upon pay raise per year. I doubt he'll be asking for 3M a year. but a modest 1.5 or so per year on a 2yr contract maybe?

 

I'm not his biggest fan by any means, but I'll defend him when pile on Shat starts going his way, undeservedly.

I liked the pick from the start, and saw him as the better fit of the two when we drafted him. Here's hoping he does break out next year. 

[RonJeremy]

On 5/15/2021 at 12:55 PM, CoachX said:

I know JVR has that huge contract, but is he more tradeable?

 

If I had to keep a guy for another year, its Patrick. I don't care what  he says he wants. He is under contract. Play 4th line next season and earn it. If you do, we will pay you, or trade you. If you don't, walk!

 

Flyers seems to have all leverage here

I would definitely try and trade JVR , keep Patrick for now, he can always be released or traded for future considerations.  By doing this it increases the odds for Seattle to take Jake, but I figure they will take Ghost.

[Lonkkis]

Can we tempt you guys with Parise? He's good value! Promise! 

 

... I'll see myself out.

[CoachX]

20 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

 

 It's not so much what I see.  I've watched the same team that all of you have.

I do believe that I said the young man has struggled this year,  that his play has not been good and he really has 0 leverage. 

I find the idea that someone can know a person's level of motivation simply by watching on television dubious. 

 There's a portion of this that reminds me of the criticism of Jeff Carter.  Who was thought of as a floater because he didn't make a face when he skated. Never mind he was faster than nearly everybody on the ice all the time and was a pretty decent defensive player to boot.

 The kid is cheap it doesn't hurt anything to keep him on the roster for another year I don't feel like we have seen the best he has to offer and would prefer to see that be realised in a flyers uniform than someone else's.

 

I think you can tell motivation. You can even see it at lower, insignificant levels like beer league. You can see when someone is engaged, skating hard or putting in effort. Its not measured in goals and points alone, which may have been your point

 

Initially i was thinking he's struggling with the reality that he hasnt played at a high level to secure his future financially, and that he was worried he was one or two hits from being done. This would make a guy timid

 

After hearing about agent 3, wanting a raise or a trade, im thinking a little different, and definitely more negative

[mojo1917]

24 minutes ago, Lonkkis said:

Can we tempt you guys with Parise? He's good value! Promise! 

 

... I'll see myself out.

**** off, and I mean that in the best way possible.

thanks for a great laugh.

[mojo1917]

@CoachX

 

Perhaps you've gathered more information about the situation than  I have.

 

I tend to look at Frank Severalli's reporting about the Flyers skeptically based on a perception I have from his time covering the team.

I don't recall seeing any direct quotes from the player and felt as though there were many speculative statements in the  article that has us all talking.

Frank has been a "many people are saying" person in the past. 

 

I don't know what Patrick is thinking, I don't think I've heard him say one negative thing about the organization though. 

As a rule you do want your agent to be the hard case so you can get the most from the negotiation. Let the weasel be the bad guy too.

 

I have seen a lot of  speculation and supposition which seem to be based more around the fact the young man has resting douche face than actual actions and statements. 

If he wants out of Philly he knows where the door is. ( I haven't seen any evidence this is true).

If he wants more money he can play better.

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by mojo1917

[Digityman]

On 5/16/2021 at 9:34 AM, flyercanuck said:

I really don't see the need to "get rid of" Nolan Patrick. He makes under a million a year. I'm not sure what his value is on the trade market but it can't be high. And for whatever pick/prospect you're going to get for him, I highly doubt they will have the upside that he holds. Health is clearly his issue. Yes he played very apprehensive, and I know all the guys wanting to run him out of town would be going balls to the wall if they were recovering from the conditions he is and playing pro hockey . 

 

^^^ This.   It comes down to a business decision.  Patrick's potential is greater than anything they would get in a trade.   Plain and simple.

 

I get the frustration with him obviously.  It's compounded by having (2) #2 picks being JVR and Patrick.   It's infuriating.  But that's not his fault, nor are his health issues.   Patrick actually has potential.  JVR?  Jake? Hayes?   We've seen their best and now they are on their way down.  

 

Also, a professional athlete (or their agent) asking for more money doesn't seem that strange to me.   In fact, I asked my boss for more money and do it every year.  Why is that strange/wrong?   It's a business, he's an employee.   I bet none of you have ever said, "boss, I don't think I deserve more money this year because I didn't do my best last year." 

 

Also also, this is coming from Serivalli....  So 50/50 it's true but even if it is, Patrick getting 1-1.25m in a full, prove-it or else season is the right choice to me.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

By doing this it increases the odds for Seattle to take Jake

 

I think they give them the choice of Jake or JVR and whomever they don't take then gets traded even if they have to pick up some salary.

 

I hope it goes down like that I am ready to move on from both and then deal with Giroux during the year and maybe even move him before the trade deadline next year if need be.

[flyer4ever]

If Patrick had a brain he would hire Giroux or Voracek or Hayes' agent. Look at the cushy deals they milked the Flyers for.

 

[Howie58]

He probably feels a change of scenery might help. Perhaps it would. Meanwhile, I smell a small increase and wonder if it would be for more than one year.  It is a sad case.  He has shown some high-end skill.  But that doesn't matter much if it is once every 15 games.  

[ruxpin]

11 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@CoachX

 

Perhaps you've gathered more information about the situation than  I have.

 

I tend to look at Frank Severalli's reporting about the Flyers skeptically based on a perception I have from his time covering the team.

I don't recall seeing any direct quotes from the player and felt as though there were many speculative statements in the  article that has us all talking.

Frank has been a "many people are saying" person in the past. 

 

I don't know what Patrick is thinking, I don't think I've heard him say one negative thing about the organization though. 

As a rule you do want your agent to be the hard case so you can get the most from the negotiation. Let the weasel be the bad guy too.

 

I have seen a lot of  speculation and supposition which seem to be based more around the fact the young man has resting douche face than actual actions and statements. 

If he wants out of Philly he knows where the door is. ( I haven't seen any evidence this is true).

If he wants more money he can play better.

 

I'll stand behind the resting bitch face, but I'm with you on the stuff about Severalli.  I don't think his suppositions have much merit.  You and others have suggested very plausible explanations and I think they or versions similar have merit.  I think the truth lies somewhere there. 

 

I can't blame him or anyone for trying to get what they can when they can... especially when they've gone through what he has and understands it all can oh so quickly be taken away. 

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

If Patrick had a brain he would hire Giroux or Voracek or Hayes' agent. Look at the cushy deals they milked the Flyers for.

 

Yeah, but not shocked to learn Hayes needs core muscle surgery. He shouldn't have been playing. 

[ruxpin]

11 hours ago, Digityman said:

 

^^^ This.   It comes down to a business decision.  Patrick's potential is greater than anything they would get in a trade.   Plain and simple.

 

I get the frustration with him obviously.  It's compounded by having (2) #2 picks being JVR and Patrick.   It's infuriating.  But that's not his fault, nor are his health issues.   Patrick actually has potential.  JVR?  Jake? Hayes?   We've seen their best and now they are on their way down.  

 

Also, a professional athlete (or their agent) asking for more money doesn't seem that strange to me.   In fact, I asked my boss for more money and do it every year.  Why is that strange/wrong?   It's a business, he's an employee.   I bet none of you have ever said, "boss, I don't think I deserve more money this year because I didn't do my best last year." 

 

Also also, this is coming from Serivalli....  So 50/50 it's true but even if it is, Patrick getting 1-1.25m in a full, prove-it or else season is the right choice to me.

My potential is greater than his. And equally imaginary. 

 

I'm personally not interested in the return being equal to his imaginary potential. If I can sucker a GM into trading me 50%  of that potential we will NEVER see, it'll be at least 200% more than what we actually have in him. 

 

Honestly, it's not his fault, but that's also not relevant. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by ruxpin

[CoachX]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:50 AM, mojo1917 said:

 

Perhaps you've gathered more information about the situation than  I have

No, I haven't.  You and i are both discussing from opinion based on our observations

 

On 5/17/2021 at 7:50 AM, mojo1917 said:

tend to look at Frank Severalli's reporting about the Flyers skeptically based on a perception I have from his time covering the team.

I don't recall seeing any direct quotes from the player and felt as though there were many speculative statements in the  article that has us all talking.

This is the case with all reports. I tend to look at these things from a "between the lines" approach. The player didnt give a "direct quote", and we all know he never will. Players cant do that. But i look atit as,  the player didnt say anything to contradict the report either. So it has as much chance to be vaild, as it does speculation

 

I also look at the peripheral fact of timing. This report seems to come out at time when it makes Patrick relevant in the news, with an expansion draft coming up. I doubt the reporter woke up and decided he had nothing better to do than make up BS about Patrick.

 

Carson Wentz comes to mind. He never said a thing about all the reports oit against him, and in the end, it looked true. He wanted out, and got out

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Carson Wentz comes to mind. He never said a thing about all the reports oit against him, and in the end, it looked true. He wanted out, and got out

 

Great example.

 

I was a huge Wentz support and thought he was wrongfully accused of a lot of stuff and blame for to much of what was going on sure he was part of the problem but not the sole reason for the whole team issues.

 

And week after week we were hearing stuff about him and his unhappiness and things he might have said and we never knew what was true and not once instance was put out of him ever saying a word about any of it.

 

But the part that bothered me is he also never came out and addressed any of it to deny any of it or to even tell his side of it. He just left it like it was. So that always pissed me off and left me with yes just wanting to move on from all this drama.

 

And we may never know. So yes i agree sometimes it helps to come out and dispel it all.

 

But all we are left with is just crickets....it could all be lies or it could all be true. Only he knows.

[CoachX]

9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And we may never know. So yes i agree sometimes it helps to come out and dispel it all.

 

But all we are left with is just crickets....it could all be lies or it could all be true. Only he knows.

In the absence of any contradictory statements,  fans are left to draw their own conclusions. So viewing sports as whole, and factoring the behavior of a lot of athletes in similar situations, it seems more plausible than not ( to me), the Patrick thinks he is owed a raise, and wants out. Seriously, why would he want to stay on this sinking ship?

 

Im now reading other reporters talking about trades between Phi and Det, involving Patrick. He is reporting the same things as Seravalli

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, CoachX said:

In the absence of any contradictory statements,  fans are left to draw their own conclusions. So viewing sports as whole, and factoring the behavior of a lot of athletes in similar situations, it seems more plausible than not ( to me), the Patrick thinks he is owed a raise, and wants out. Seriously, why would he want to stay on this sinking ship?

 

Im now reading other reporters talking about trades between Phi and Det, involving Patrick. He is reporting the same things as Seravalli

 

For the right return i tell him to pack his bags.