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Patrick hires new agent...might want oit


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So do i. But i agree with the points many have made. He's cheap and could have upside. Keeping him as your 4th line center is a risk worth taking. Maybe he turns it up, knowing he has something to prove of he wants to get paid. If not, you loe what value you had in him to get a better return, but who knows what that was. The only real loss would be him, and that isnt much

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I really don't see the need to "get rid of" Nolan Patrick. He makes under a million a year. I'm not sure what his value is on the trade market but it can't be high. And for whatever pick/prospect you're going to get for him, I highly doubt they will have the upside that he holds. Health is clearly his issue. Yes he played very apprehensive, and I know all the guys wanting to run him out of town would be going balls to the wall if they were recovering from the conditions he is and playing pro hoc

Yes, actually, they can.   Look, I'm not on the "he'll some day be JVR" wagon but I also don't think that one season of -30 coming off serious injury and playing on a team that had the motivation level of a tranquilized sloth is necessarily demonstrative of his total game.   It's low risk more than anything.   Who's he "blocking"?   Give me a viable alternative - something beyond a noun a verb and "-30" - and I'm willing to listen.    

this is where I am. To me it makes little sense to trade the guy now when he's worthless, it doesn't help the team, & represents a huge asset lost. The #2 overall pick should yield something in return. Right now what would a fair return be?  Nothing, and that's being charitable.  So offer a little more $ "we have faith in you" and see what a regular-ish offseason and camp and season do for his game. Try not to create a situation where the kid is resentful toward the team.

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15 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

For the right return i tell him to pack his bags.

 

 So what's the right package? His value isn't high. Neither is his paycheck. So why not see if his game comes back. I doubt you're getting a 1st for him at this point. The odds of whatever you get for him having his upside are miniscule. 

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17 hours ago, CoachX said:

I doubt the reporter woke up and decided he had nothing better to do than make up BS about Patrick.

 

 

 

 :skeptic:

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5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

So what's the right package?

 

Give me a 2022 2nd round pick and he's yours. You asked. So we got a deal. I'll drive him.

 

:beer:

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So new reporting has come out...

 

When asked about the situation, a spokesman on behalf of Patrick said he has no comment. Normally I would expect something like, I like it here, its a business, I love my teammates, hopefully something gets done. But not commenting makes me think there is something behind the reports he wants out.

 

It was also reported that he was quoted as saying he was playing timid early on, due to concerns about the injury. I don't recall seeing that timidness ever leaving

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17 minutes ago, CoachX said:

It was also reported that he was quoted as saying he was playing timid early on, due to concerns about the injury.

 

I say just keep him. Maybe a good offseason program and camp will get him into a better groove.

 

I don't think any GM will give me what i want for him any way....who know maybe he has a Matthew Barzal like season and then we can talk about it all again next offseason.

 

In reality Nolan Patrick in juniors did produce along the lines of Barzal.

 

In fact he produced very much the same numbers as him but injury was an issue his last year of juniors.

 

Now before some kleon comes along and twist my words and say i said he is as good as Barzal that is NOT what i am saying just that production wise he put up similar numbers slightly.

 

Barzal

 

1st year 54 points in 59 games

2nd year 57 points in 47 games

3rd year 88 points in 58 games

4th year 79 points in 41 games

 

Patrick

 

1st year 56 points in 55 games

2nd year 102 points in 72 games

3rd year 46 points in 33 games this was an injury year.

 

So Nolan never got the chance to play his 4th season. Blame that on Ron Hextall.

 

So we never know what may have been but who knows maybe just maybe he returns to this type of form. Stranger things have happened.

 

We'll find out what Chuckles has planned.

 

 

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you know what, I agree, KEEP HIM! Let's see what happens.

 

Now that that is out of the way, our only issue is whether he will actually try, or if he really wants out, will he be a petulant little child...ala Jake

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5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Give me a 2022 2nd round pick and he's yours. You asked. So we got a deal. I'll drive him.

 

:beer:

 

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I say just keep him. Maybe a good offseason program and camp will get him into a better groove.

 

 

 

 

 :huh:

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16 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

 

 :huh:

 

Because no one in going to give up a 2nd for him.

 

So might as well keep him. 

 

I am not going to trade him just for the sake of trading him.

 

There is a small chance he comes back next year and at least put up a better season than his first two.

 

A 50 point season from him I think I would call progress.

 

18 goals and 30 assist would be my expectations.

 

Guess we'll ride it out.

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On 5/15/2021 at 1:44 PM, CoachX said:

Why give him anything?

 

On 5/15/2021 at 2:23 PM, OccamsRazor said:

He's fcuked he doesn't have arbitration rights.

 

It is a take it or leave type deal.

 

On 5/17/2021 at 9:54 AM, Digityman said:

Patrick getting 1-1.25m in a full, prove-it or else season is the right choice to me.

 

His qualifying offer is $917K
https://www.capfriendly.com/qualifying-offer-calculator/nolan-patrick


I don't see the value in dumping him for peanuts at this point.

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11 minutes ago, radoran said:

  

 

 

 

His qualifying offer is $917K
https://www.capfriendly.com/qualifying-offer-calculator/nolan-patrick


I don't see the value in dumping him for peanuts at this point.

 

I get this.   And others.

 

For me, it's not about the $917K.

 

I think I'm further down the "given up on him" road than some.  But at this point forget about cap hit and all that and it's not MY money, but at -30 he's actually a hinderance.   Zero in return than what he brings, which is a negative.

 

Now, some want to talk about "potential."     That's great.  That and a nickel and I have to borrow money for a phone call.   Not you, YOU didn't use the word potential, but for those in the back of the room:   WHAT POTENTIAL ARE WE REALLY TALKING ABOUT???

 

-25?

5 goals?

15 min/game of ice time?    I mean, this dude was MINUS 30 in only 13+ minutes ATOI.   That's some pretty high skill right there.  Good thing he has "potential," because he doesn't have a damn thing else.

 

You dump him for peanuts if you can get it because if he continues as is there is no chance there will be anyone left operating under the "but he's got potential" delusion.   You won't get a single peanut.

 

You gave up a #2 overall for him.  I know we want to keep him in the unfailing hope he can get to the place where "okay, it's not #2 but there's value" or enough that someone else thinks he's worth at least a 4th rounder to take a shot.    But I'm saying take the 6th rounder, cut your losses, open the roster spot to one of the kids coming up next year BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE WORSE and move on while it's a 6th from another GM and not a laugh and a dial tone.

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Okay, I'm being wishy-washy. After Rux' s last post I'm back on the "FCK him" bandwagon

 

UGH! My brain can't handle this pressure :bonkingheadonwall:

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50 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

You gave up a #2 overall for him.  I know we want to keep him in the unfailing hope he can get to the place where "okay, it's not #2 but there's value" or enough that someone else thinks he's worth at least a 4th rounder to take a shot.    But I'm saying take the 6th rounder, cut your losses, open the roster spot to one of the kids coming up next year BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE WORSE and move on while it's a 6th from another GM and not a laugh and a dial tone.

It's weird. 50% of me says this is the route.  The other possibility is a lowball two-year offer on the assumption he does turn it around. Then you might have a bargain or a chip for trade down the road.  If he stinks, the cost of waiver is low.  I agree that roster space is the intangible and important thing to consider.  It is pretty messy.  I wish we knew more about the long-term prognosis of his migraine (even under control) and linkage to concussion.  That linkage makes him vulnerable down the road.  

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 You won't get a single peanut.

 

I totally understand and this is where i was coming from so you get him for a cheap 925K one year deal.

 

Then if he comes out and sh its the bed again after next year you will not get even a peanut you'd be lucky to just get a empty shell. 

 

So it seems you just roll the dice on the one year deal and if he has another bad year i think he would have arbitration rights and then what???

 

You just walk away empty handed??

 

I guess all we can hope for in this all is him coming out next year and blowing us all away.

 

I don't want to think about what if he doesn't.......

 

:beer:

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I totally understand and this is where i was coming from so you get him for a cheap 925K one year deal.

 

Then if he comes out and sh its the bed again after next year you will not get even a peanut you'd be lucky to just get a empty shell. 

 

So it seems you just roll the dice on the one year deal and if he has another bad year i think he would have arbitration rights and then what???

 

You just walk away empty handed??

 

I guess all we can hope for in this all is him coming out next year and blowing us all away.

 

I don't want to think about what if he doesn't.......

 

:beer:

 

Well, I guess the argument is that if he doesn't, then you just don't offer him another year.   You let him go.   At that point you've lost really nothing other than a year of development of some kid blocked off and sitting in Lehigh because "he's going to miraculously do something he hasn't shown in 4 1/2+ years."   Oh, and if we're pro-rating, probably about 50 goals against for a -50.

 

I was not bullish on Couturier ever being an offensive presence, so keep my rant in perspective.    But even then, I was on the "but he's pretty damn good defensively" bandwagon.   The point to this being that this wouldn't be the first or last time I'm proven wrong.   But the other thing is that's where the Coots/Patrick comparison ends.   Because Coots did show other things, and a work ethic, etc.   Honestly, I've seen sporadic [extremely sporadic] flashes from Patrick.  For a shift or two.  And then nothing.   I know he's got something in there somewhere, but that doesn't mean he can or will put it together for any period of time.

 

Again, this isn't Patrick hate.  I don't even think it's his fault.   I mean, it's his career so he claims some responsibility, but we insanely forced a kid who missed most of his draft year due to injury to start in the NHL.   Rather than give him another year in juniors to get his feet wet and his conditioning back.   And then he got hurt.  Shocker.    And was ineffective.  Another shocker.    Then hurt again.  Then migraines, etc.

 

None of that is his fault.   This isn't me hating on Voracek.   I don't feel bad being negative about Voracek.  I consider that an enjoyable hobby.   But I feel bad about Patrick.  I wonder what could have been.   I also can't help wondering if the best possible thing that could happen to him is to get the hell out of Philly and start fresh somewhere.    Because I'm convinced that his future has exactly zero potential in Philly.   I don't know how much the chances go up elsewhere, but I have a hard time believing they don't increase some.   I'm thinking there's a GM out there that believes similarly.   We'll NEVER get a first round for him.   But he could be included in something that brings someone or something worthwhile while giving him a new start as well.

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7 minutes ago, radoran said:

playing on a team that had the motivation level of a tranquilized sloth 

 

I don't care what your argument is; it's hard to disagree with you when you toss in a gem like that.  Lol  Like it.  Is it registered?

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8 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't care what your argument is; it's hard to disagree with you when you toss in a gem like that.  Lol  Like it.  Is it registered?

 

My wife adores sloths which explains her choice of husband.

 

Not registered.

 

If this team put as much effort and energy this season into playing hockey as they did coming up with "reasons" they were mediocre they might have actually been better.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, radoran said:

Give me a viable alternative - something beyond a noun a verb and "-30" - and I'm willing to listen

Well there's a finite number of roster spots, so by virtue of him taking one of them...

 

Pick a center or a left winger for starters.  Is he playing 3C and forcing Frost to 4C or wing?  I'd like Frost to get some wingers.  

4C?  I don't know.  Laczynski, Wisdom, Foerster, Rubstov, Andreoff.  Some of those I don't slot at center and some I'm not bullish on, but they're replacing someone doing literally nothing.

 

Do they move him to wing?  Then we're widening the list.   The point being that against what he's done for literally 4 1/2 years, none is a drop off.  My thing is if you can still get something, get it. Because guaranteed, this time next year you won't.  And at this point, the kid may have a chance to save his career if you do because as an organization and as a team I think it should be abundantly clear that one thing the flyers are perfectly incapable of is nurturing a player's growth.

 

Name an example. One.  (EDIT:  I'll give you Coots. Name another. Lol)

And certainly not one with as uphill a climb as Nolan.  Even for humanitarian decency reasons, move the kid away from the "it's not my fault he got cancer" inherited culture that is the Flyers.

 

But, I agree that for the most part the risk is only <$1M that isn't mine, a year, and any hope of getting anything vs. the possibility, albeit remote, that somehow his first summer healthy followed by possibly a "normal" season will be the difference. I mean, it's possible.  I won't hate it, but I think it's the wrong move.  I hope I'm wrong.  But if I'm Nolan, I want out and if I'm the Flyers I hate myself...er...I mean I oblige him.

 

 

I'm still laughing at sloth. Carry on.

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

Laczynski, Wisdom, Foerster, Rubstov, Andreoff.

 

Foerster I believe is back to juniors.

 

The other four strike me as deck chairs...

Bobs Burgers Straws GIF

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1 minute ago, radoran said:

The other four strike me as deck chairs

 

I really like Wisdom. I don't believe he's ready.  Probably deck chairs, but if I'm filling 4C, I'm just going for some faceoff wins and better than -30.

 

To others:  i know, #meta.

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1 hour ago, radoran said:

motivation level of a tranquilized sloth


lol…. A) you are spot on and B) you have to trademark that phrase…..

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3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

I really like Wisdom. I don't believe he's ready.  Probably deck chairs, but if I'm filling 4C, I'm just going for some faceoff wins and better than -30.

 

To others:  i know, #meta.

 

Well, exactly. I don't see rushing an 18 year old 4th rounder into the NHL as a necessity that precludes keeping a 22 year old 2nd overall.

 

Again, just saying that barring a deal worth making I don't see the harm in keeping Patrick for another year.

 

Let Wisdom develop and see what you've got at both levels.

 

Patrick should play like he has something to prove and if he doesn't the same peanuts are more than likely available.

 

But, honestly, he's not keeping Laczynski down, Rubustov had 11 points in 41 KHL games and Andreoff is 30 with 25 NHL points in 173 NHL games.

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9 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

 

Again, this isn't Patrick hate.  I don't even think it's his fault.   I mean, it's his career so he claims some responsibility, but we insanely forced a kid who missed most of his draft year due to injury to start in the NHL.   Rather than give him another year in juniors to get his feet wet and his conditioning back.   And then he got hurt.  Shocker.    And was ineffective.  Another shocker.    Then hurt again.  Then migraines, etc.

 

None of that is his fault.   This isn't me hating on Voracek.   I don't feel bad being negative about Voracek.  I consider that an enjoyable hobby.   But I feel bad about Patrick.  I wonder what could have been.   I also can't help wondering if the best possible thing that could happen to him is to get the hell out of Philly and start fresh somewhere.    Because I'm convinced that his future has exactly zero potential in Philly.   I don't know how much the chances go up elsewhere, but I have a hard time believing they don't increase some.   I'm thinking there's a GM out there that believes similarly.   We'll NEVER get a first round for him.   But he could be included in something that brings someone or something worthwhile while giving him a new start as well.

 

 This is the first "get rid of Patrick" post I've read on here that actually makes any sense to me. I still wouldn't trade him unless it was something of value (a 2nd or 3rd is NOT the value of Patrick if he gets going, which is what you're drafting for) but at least there's reasoning other than "He sucks, I don't care if his health was a huge factor and his entire team completely gave up, that's on him". 

 

 I don't know wtf is going on with the Flyers but some of the best young talent I've ever seen them have at one time is not developing. This isn't just Patrick. Hart looked like we FINALLY had the answer, then he completely regresses. Provorov who looked great and now looks mediocre. Konecny who looked great and now looks mediocre. Myers was really coming into his own. Now he's terrible.  Sanheim. Ghost (I know, injuries). Lindblom (same) NAK. I've never seen anything like it. All on the same team. 

 

 There should be a purge in this org. But I don't think it should be these talented young guys. 

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