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Realizing while watching Cale Makar tonight..


Brett

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On 5/30/2021 at 9:39 PM, Brett said:

..that selecting Nolan Patrick with the #2 pick in 2017 was a franchise-altering mistake.


That is all.

 

 

Apparently Flyers scouts informed Hextall NOT to pick Patrick and that any of Makar, EP, or Heiskanen were better picks.  Hextall ignored their advice and chose Patrick.

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23 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

Apparently Flyers scouts informed Hextall NOT to pick Patrick and that any of Makar, EP, or Heiskanen were better picks.  Hextall ignored their advice and chose Patrick.

 

that is a very interesting theory ......  do you have anything concrete that backs up that premise?  Would love to read it.

 

By the way ... Welcome to the Forum!

:welcome:

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24 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

the fact you have to be physically built to win in the playoffs.

 

Yes. And they seen this last year getting bounced early and it was addressed.

 

They added Staal (6-4) Perry (6-3) Edmundson (6-4). And a solid backup goalie in Allen.

 

But as someone us mentioned @ruxpinto the biggest key element all of those guys have rings.

 

Now it isn't imperative to have a ring but it will help a lot to help guide the team along.

 

And i hate Montreal....but you have to respect what they have built.

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27 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

Hextall ignored their advice and chose Patrick.

 

Well maybe he just picked him since he too was a former Wheat King....you never know Roseman for the Eagles has been noted to favor guys from the University of Florida since that too was his alma mater....it has happened in sports before not just in these events.

 

:BrownBag:

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22 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

that is a very interesting theory ......  do you have anything concrete that backs up that premise?  Would love to read it.

 

By the way ... Welcome to the Forum!

:welcome:

 

https://twitter.com/JoyOnBroad/status/1400863328789057544?s=20

 

"Imagine having Cale Makar on the board, telling your scouts the organizational dept on the blue line was fine, and drafting Nolan Patrick. #Hexy"

 

For some reason can't direct paste a tweet here.  Oh well

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45 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

https://twitter.com/JoyOnBroad/status/1400863328789057544?s=20

 

"Imagine having Cale Makar on the board, telling your scouts the organizational dept on the blue line was fine, and drafting Nolan Patrick. #Hexy"

 

For some reason can't direct paste a tweet here.  Oh well

 

thanks ......  again very interesting .....

(no worries I took care of your other post ... all is good)

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23 hours ago, hmc687 said:

 

Apparently Flyers scouts informed Hextall NOT to pick Patrick and that any of Makar, EP, or Heiskanen were better picks.  Hextall ignored their advice and chose Patrick.

This sounds so similar to the Washington Football Team and Dwayne Haskins. Numerous scouts, the director of player personnel, the assistant GM and the head coach told Bruce Allen not to take Haskins.  Allen ignored all of them and takes Haskins. We all saw how that worked out. 

 

Honestly, if the plan is to move Patrick this offseason,  I'm wondering how receptive Vegas would be to part with Cody Glass.  It looks like DeBoer won't give him a fair chance and could use a change of scenery. 

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3 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Honestly, if the plan is to move Patrick this offseason,  I'm wondering how receptive Vegas would be to part with Cody Glass.  It looks like DeBoer won't give him a fair chance and could use a change of scenery. 

Get it done.

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4 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I would gladly drive/fly him from Vegas to Philly ......

 

It was all part of his plan, so when eventually he took command of the hated Penguins the Flyers would be a hot mess and he could rebuild quickly and steal all of their good players left...well part of it has went to plan...

 

:beer:

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On 6/19/2021 at 11:14 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes i would rather have the big power forward they signed who tied it and then won it for them.

 

Josh Anderson....a key signing by Bergevin....the same guy the Blue Jackets lost William Karlsson to Vegas by chosing to protect him instead. 6-4 225 winger.

In fairness,  the Flyers do have Wade Allison and Tyson Foerster looks like he'll add much needed size to the wing. And Isaac Ratcliffe should be ready to take a big jump this year. So the size is coming, but worth size comes patience as it takes longer to develop. 

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Just now, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

In fairness,  the Flyers do have Wade Allison and Tyson Foerster looks like he'll add much needed size to the wing. And Isaac Ratcliffe should be ready to take a big jump this year. So the size is coming, but worth size comes patience as it takes longer to develop. 

 

Sure but none of those guys are going to be challenging the puck carriers who will be skating down into the Flyer's D zone uncontested...who is going to challenge them??

 

I don't see anyone doing it much on the current Flyer's blueline not named Ivan Provorov.

 

I think you have guys like Hagg and Braun but their lack of foot speed usually only gets them out of position trying to challenge guys and then leads them to chasing and therefor getting out of position out front and the top of the crease is a free for all.

 

They need guys who are going to try and stand guys up or at least successfully seperate the puck carriers from the puck or foce them to pass it. This is where Sanheim and Myers should be excelling at doing...but all Travis ever wants to do is stick check guys and most times not even getting a stick on anyone just skated right around once they attempt to reach.

 

Myers was suppose to be the guy i thought that liked the physical part of the game and he had the size and mobility to put a body on the puck carriers separate them and maybe let Travis clean it up but man he has not displayed that much at all. I think some injuries have set him back but he lacks the confidence to do what he needs to do to make him the D man we want to see from him.

 

They need that vet guy to help work on the Charmin Twins to get them to reach their potential.

 

A Colton Parayko i think can do this and show them how to use their size and wheels to their advantage.

 

So Chuckles need to make a play for a guy like that. And well he may have to make a decision or trading one of the Charmin Twins for Parayko....now sure i would prefer to hold onto both of them and have them in Philly but how can they do this before the expansion draft???

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33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure but none of those guys are going to be challenging the puck carriers who will be skating down into the Flyer's D zone uncontested...who is going to challenge them??

 

I don't see anyone doing it much on the current Flyer's blueline not named Ivan Provorov.

 

I think you have guys like Hagg and Braun but their lack of foot speed usually only gets them out of position trying to challenge guys and then leads them to chasing and therefor getting out of position out front and the top of the crease is a free for all.

 

They need guys who are going to try and stand guys up or at least successfully seperate the puck carriers from the puck or foce them to pass it. This is where Sanheim and Myers should be excelling at doing...but all Travis ever wants to do is stick check guys and most times not even getting a stick on anyone just skated right around once they attempt to reach.

 

Myers was suppose to be the guy i thought that liked the physical part of the game and he had the size and mobility to put a body on the puck carriers separate them and maybe let Travis clean it up but man he has not displayed that much at all. I think some injuries have set him back but he lacks the confidence to do what he needs to do to make him the D man we want to see from him.

 

They need that vet guy to help work on the Charmin Twins to get them to reach their potential.

 

A Colton Parayko i think can do this and show them how to use their size and wheels to their advantage.

 

So Chuckles need to make a play for a guy like that. And well he may have to make a decision or trading one of the Charmin Twins for Parayko....now sure i would prefer to hold onto both of them and have them in Philly but how can they do this before the expansion draft???

 

Our defense is soft because they're being coached that way. That's on Yeo. I'm sure if Therrien were coach, he'd expect everyone to be able to lower the boom. This is why I really believe that none of the coaches are in the same page.  How does the defense regress do badly and why does everyone look like they're completely out of sync? It's coaching and if I'm Vigneault,  I make it CRYSTAL clear to the rest of the staff as to who the boss is and how things are to be done. Maybe Vigneault needs to start throwing coaches under the bus as well.....

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3 hours ago, hmc687 said:

 

https://twitter.com/JoyOnBroad/status/1400863328789057544?s=20

 

"Imagine having Cale Makar on the board, telling your scouts the organizational dept on the blue line was fine, and drafting Nolan Patrick. #Hexy"

 

For some reason can't direct paste a tweet here.  Oh well

 

Ok, but that's a quote from a sports betting editor....not a scout. I have no clue who this guy is, is he credible?

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34 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ok, but that's a quote from a sports betting editor....not a scout. I have no clue who this guy is, is he credible?

 

I was thinking similar.

Just because some "thinks he knows" tweets about it, doesn't mean it's true.

Plus, we all know hindsight, 20/20 and all that.
If I recall, back when Patrick was drafted, the Flyers were on the verge of jettisoning the aged defensemen they had as they passed the reigns to young guys like Provorov, Morin, Sanheim, plus Ghostisbehere was still considered a viable defenseman for them as well.

Not hard to see why Hextall would have thought the defense was "fine", if indeed, he did say that.
Really not hard to see why a guy like Nolan Patrick would look enticing to the Flyers' GM (or any other GM for that matter), when the defense seemed to be in order with regards to years down the road from the time of the 2017 draft.

Obviously, Heiskanen, Makar, etc are fantastic players, but did the Flyers, again AT THE TIME, think they needed to draft another defenseman, then wait on his development, when they could draft a very good forward, whose development cycle traditionally is faster?

And who is to say the Flyers WON'T do well when all is said n done with the players they have and some tweaks and perhaps an unloading of a big salary or two?
Not like their young defense core is bust and its not like their young forwards are completely hopeless.

IMO, the Flyers are suffering from the same thing the Wild did some years ago (with the very same Chuck Fletcher at the helm...yikes), and that is, picking the WRONG vets to give big contracts to, to supplement the young guys.
Fletcher did those one after the other in Minnesota, and appears to be doing the same in Philly......and I am sure big contract guys before he got there like Voracek, who are not playing up to their contracts, isn't helping matters either.
 

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1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Maybe Vigneault needs to start throwing coaches under the bus as well.....

 

I know not all great players make great coaches but one of the two I would love to see on the bench if we're going straight nepotism is Kimmo.

 

He embodied what it meant to be a warrior Flyer skating amongst Giants.

 

Ragnar from Kuopio!!!

:5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

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2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I know not all great players make great coaches but one of the two I would love to see on the bench if we're going straight nepotism is Kimmo.

 

He embodied what it meant to be a warrior Flyer skating amongst Giants.

 

Ragnar from Kuopio!!!

:5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

Yeah I'd love for Kimmo to be a defense coach in Philadelphia. I think he could be the one guy to get through to this group. 

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On 6/19/2021 at 11:29 AM, hmc687 said:

 

Apparently Flyers scouts informed Hextall NOT to pick Patrick and that any of Makar, EP, or Heiskanen were better picks.  Hextall ignored their advice and chose Patrick.

Well Patrick did play for the Brandon Wheat Kings which was junior team that Hextall played for. There's a lot of decisions that Hextall made that were head scratchers.

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2 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Well Patrick did play for the Brandon Wheat Kings which was junior team that Hextall played for. There's a lot of decisions that Hextall made that were head scratchers.

 

yeah.

 

Overall, I liked most of his moves and wonder what he could have done with more freedom and without being saddled by cap.  I can't really blame him for Patrick in that draft--though, in retrospect!--but wish we had the do-over.  And there were certainly other instances, as well.

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Hextall took Patrick because he was the no-brainer pick to go either 1st or 2nd overall. Ya, it sucks what's happened to him, but everyone on here was fine with the pick when it happened. People can say they wanted Makar or whoever, but they sure didn't say it when it happened.

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51 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Hextall took Patrick because he was the no-brainer pick to go either 1st or 2nd overall. Ya, it sucks what's happened to him, but everyone on here was fine with the pick when it happened. People can say they wanted Makar or whoever, but they sure didn't say it when it happened.

 

 

Hey FC ....ask and you shall receive.  Here is a whole thread stating the concern with Patrick's injury history ...

 

 

Some selected quotes from that thread .....

 

"Here's the tihng with Patrick that concerns me - sports hernias don't take 6 to 8 months to clear up. There had to have been something incredibly wrong with him sitting out that length of time. That's not just a precaution. That's red flag number one. The second red flag had to do with being injured towards the end of the season and missing the playoffs. Something just doesn't add up with Nolan Patrick. Now, I know the Philadelphia medical staff leave a lot to be desired (well, Jim McCrossin does, but the staff also have a say on a player), but if they're saying that there's genuine concern with Patrick's health, that should be red flag number three. As I stated in another post, if Hischier goes first, then I certainly hope that Hextall shops the hell out of that pick"

 

"Honestly... If Nico goes number one I am still taking Patrick at number 2.  "

 

"If Patrick is there at #2, you take him.  If the injuries become a problem, then trade him.  If you don't take him and he turns into a star player, well, there is no excuse for that. "

 

"Unless NJ goes off the board and we have Nico as the pick I still go Patrick.   And I am not sure I take Nico over Patrick for that matter..."

 

"MAF is really good but I wouldn't give up a possible 15 years of a possible star forward to get him.  I'd have to come up with something else."

 

In another thread .....

 

"I still think we take one of Hischier/Patrick, whoever the Devils don't. If not we certainly should be trading down."

Glad we got Nolan ....so as I posted in the other thread ...was the article about Flyers concern about Nolan's health a smoke screen ...... ???? "

 

"Either a smokescreen, or just usual clickbait BS. Hextall was interviewed after the pick and flat out said they had no concerns after they had him in."

 

"I'm so happy we got Patrick. The future of this team is really looking bright...... Lindblom/Patrick/Konecny as a line might be fun"

 

"Very exciting season come up, youth movement in full effect.  Patrick, Ghost, Konecny, Provorov, Morin, Sanheim, Lindblom"

 

"Love it...   I have not been more excited as a Flyer fan in a long time.    Starting to see the future finally taking shape."

 

"BREAKING NEWS: Nolan Patrick sidelined for 8 weeks due to hernia surgery for an issue missed in the pre draft screening!!!"

 

"I'm still concerned about his injury history though. I don't think he's played an injury free season since he was 13 or 14."

 

"OMG this is freaking incredible!! How much time in getting the second overall pick might be shaved off for the building stages for this team. This is a thing of beauty Go Flyers!!! Draft Nolan Patrick PLEASE!!!"

 

image.thumb.png.76bb94668027cd8a7801aa7b154e8df7.png

 

"This reminds me of the JVR draft year...another year where we pick #2 and only one elite prospect....even when we are lucky we suck....lol. Nico is the only elite guy here, everyone else has question marks. 

 

 after some reading and watching, I would take Patrick over Nico. A way safer pick, and he can impose his will much more than Nico."

 

"if we get Patrick or Vilardi, awesome"

 

"Nico goes first, Patrick becomes a Flyer. He is SO well rounded, NHL ready he will not go back to junior....so where do you fit him into the line up...do you make him the 2nd line center...picking up buddy from the Bolts is now an albratross....a good problem though.

 

 "GOOD LORD, this ORG needed THIS!!!!""

 

"KISS your #1 C job goodbye Claude....MR.PP Specialist, you just got knocked down a peg!! "

 

"I can't believe the eventual 1c replacement for G just fell into the Flyers laps without having to trade any of their D/G assets away.  This is so huge for the organization as a whole. "

 

"I think Patrick could play in the NHL...Hischier, I'm not so sure. There's no rush anyway. One year without either isn't going to prevent a cup win"

 

 

Wow ....just going back and rereading some of the threads ...my how have the times changed ....(sigh)

 

 

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Going back and reading the threads ... no mention of Makar at all. If anything many wanted to take Cody Glass.  Vilardi was wildly popular also .....

 

Then there were some in the "trade the pick camp" because of all the Flyers needs ......

 

 

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27 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Going back and reading the threads ... no mention of Makar at all. If anything many wanted to take Cody Glass.  Vilardi was wildly popular also .....

 

Then there were some in the "trade the pick camp" because of all the Flyers needs ......

 

 

I was one of those who wanted Glass. One of the younger players in the draft and did everything that Patrick did and put up similar numbers. 

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1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I was one of those who wanted Glass. One of the younger players in the draft and did everything that Patrick did and put up similar numbers. 

Yup … totally saw that. Was trying not to call out posters . 
 

I remember reading up on Glass. I originally was in the Patrick camp but slowly changed my mind to other choices …. One Drafted I was in the “keep him in juniors one more year “ camp.

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