The Thrill: Wild vs Kaprizov... Who Flinches First?

[CreaseAndAssist]

You are 60 years old?  

 

Anyways...

 

Lodnia has to prove he can stay healthy.  

 

Sokolov has been given his chance, that ship has sailed and he's no longer with the organization in any capacity.  Everyone else, that's really what you have prospect camp for.  Do those players have the $$$ to make the trip over from Russia and attend prospect camp?  

[Math]

Terribly disappointing, considering Kaprizov was the most exciting player the Wild has had for a long time and could have been the team's engine. Seems he used the Wild as a launching pad for his career: Case 1 - Failure > maybe go for a bridge deal and try again; Case 2 - Success > Go back to Russia and sign the blockbuster contract. He got the Calder, so it is what it is...

[Alexandron]

3 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

You are 60 years old?  

 

Anyways...

 

Lodnia has to prove he can stay healthy.  

 

Sokolov has been given his chance, that ship has sailed and he's no longer with the organization in any capacity.  Everyone else, that's really what you have prospect camp for.  Do those players have the $$$ to make the trip over from Russia and attend prospect camp?  

Yes.Tomorrow. How old are you? Probably younger.

Anyways...

Not only Lodnia, but Khusnutdinov have to prove he can stay healthy. It seems Khusnutdinov prone to injuries.

Sokolov did not have a chance to play in any games in NHL after playing 315 games in 6 seasons in North America(3 OHL seasons and 3 AHL seasons) where he had 279 points(164 goals; 115 assists). 

Here are his records:

1. (OHL) 2015-2016; Sudbury Wolves; 62 games - 52 points(30 goals; 22 assists);

              2016-2017; Sudbury Wolves; 64 games - 72 points (48 goals;24 assists);

              2017-2018; Sudbury Wolves "A"; 35 games - 38 points (20 goals; 18 assists);

                                  Barrie Colts; 29 games - 58 points (30 goals; 28 assists).

             Total in that 2017-2018 season he had 96 points( 50 goals and 46 assists).

2. (AHL) by playing in the 4th line; 2016-2017; Iowa Wild; 2 games - 1 point(1 goal; 0 assists);

                                                         2018-2019; Iowa Wild; 60 games - 30 points(16 goals;14 assists)

                                                          2019-2020; Iowa Wild; 41 games- 22 points(15 goals;7 assists);

                                                          2020-2021; Iowa Wild; 14 games - 4 points(3 goals;1 assist).

I do not know any other Wild prospect in the Wild history who had 279 points in 315 played games in 6 seasons.  That was a stupid mistake do not give him a chance to play one single game in NHL. Those stupid coaches were Boudreau; his coach assistant in Washington and Minnesota Evason (current head coach) and Iowa Wild coach Army. Because of those coaches same situation happened in our organization with our best AHL;KHL defenseman-prospect Menell and the best AHL forward Mayhew who did not received at all nice tryouts here. And because of those coaches we did not see a tryout of Boldy last season in NHL and in playoffs. I am not sure if Boldy and Rossi will find their place in the big club soon because of this dormant strategy.

 

You asked Do those players have the $$$ to make the trip over from Russia and attend prospect camp? $$$ is not a question at all. For this specific organization, probably, they have no interest to buy tickets because most of them do not see any future here. Anyway some of them are living in US and Canada and I am still not sure if they will come this season. 

                                        

[Gnarkill]

I'd love to come in here once and not have to read a huge wall of text from the same poster in every single thread repeating the same opinions over and over about AHL kids. Holy crap. Let a thread be about something else for once.

 

 

Back on topic I'm really still hoping a deal gets done that's in the 4-5 year range for KK. I feel like getting him locked down until the harshest years of the buyout penalties are past is the most important thing atm if they can.

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Gnarkill

[radoran]

27 minutes ago, Gnarkill said:

AHL kids.

 

Find one in every fanbase...

[Alexandron]

Here is another interesting article to read about Wild - Kaprizov negotiations:

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/wild/why-isnt-kirill-kaprizov-taking-minnesotas-money/

[lynxrattle]

Interesting article. I would not compare Kap to the rookie seasons of Alex Ovechkin, Teemu Selanne, Eric Lindros, Joe Nieuwendyk, Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille and Mario Lemieux. Kap was a lot older as a rookie than those players and he had played on the KHL for years which is not at all comparable to for example Selanne's lack of experience (playing in the Finnish league). Still Selanne was able to win the scoring title as well.

 

I get the reasons Abbott stated though. I think we should move on from Kap. It's been so difficult with him, that giving him the money he would need to sign, could end up in a Parise/Suter situation again. The Wild being held hostage by its stars, ruining the room, and the deal turning pretty sour once the underperforming begins.

[Icechipper]

I keep hearing the late B.B. King singing, "The Thrill is Gone."

 

And 97 should remember that Helmut Baldaris made this all possible....

[lynxrattle]

9 hours ago, Icechipper said:

I keep hearing the late B.B. King singing, "The Thrill is Gone."

 

And 97 should remember that Helmut Baldaris made this all possible....

Love the B.B. King association! Here's more on the same lines:

 

 

[Confrontational]

Yea, I think Kap and his agent are probably seeing sentiment starting to change with the fans...  And there's no way CSKA Moscow and Kap have an agreement in place - they've spent all their cap, or close to it already from what I've read...  It's a bluff to get the most value - and I think we're starting to see what holding out does whether he's a superstar or not...

 

Maybe the Wild should trade his rights to the Sabres and bring Eichel on over...  Let them deal with him...

[lynxrattle]

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/wild/the-minnesota-wild-are-better-off-pursuing-a-rebuild/

 

A thought - provoking article by Tony Abbott. Would we be better off trading Kap, getting the picks and prospects for him, develop the youngsters over the cap crunch years coming, and be competitive again by 2024 /2025? The thing with Kap is (like Russo stated) dealing with him has always been impossibly difficult. First it takes five years to get him in the NHL and then the dead end we are now at. Do we absolutely need a player this difficult, even if he is as good as Kap is?

[Icechipper]

The thing about this NHL Covid-19-contract-carousel, is that it gets me more pumped for NCAA hockey. Go Fighting Hawks, go Beavers!

[Alexandron]

11 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/wild/the-minnesota-wild-are-better-off-pursuing-a-rebuild/

 

A thought - provoking article by Tony Abbott. Would we be better off trading Kap, getting the picks and prospects for him, develop the youngsters over the cap crunch years coming, and be competitive again by 2024 /2025? The thing with Kap is (like Russo stated) dealing with him has always been impossibly difficult. First it takes five years to get him in the NHL and then the dead end we are now at. Do we absolutely need a player this difficult, even if he is as good as Kap is?

I agree, it is very difficult to sign an agreement with him for years. Still I think , and I said this before, we need to sign him for any term he wants 1-2-3 years. It seems so far he is not accepting even 4-5 years because he does not see nearest future for the Wild as a Cup contender. From my understanding, money is not matter for him - he can make good money everywhere even in KHL. For him term is matter the most. What are the benefits the team could have for signing him to a very short term? First, to improve a class level for the team when they learn his play and his chemistry. We did see that already last season. Second, we will be able to chose the best possible round 1 drafts and other most valuable players for the team during his trading. He has a superb value, and entire NHL league agree with that too. He could be a nice addition to any NHL team. No one can take his talent out of him and this is evident during his all professional career so far.

[Alexandron]

Michael Russo presented a video clip how Kaprizov is preparing for this coming season. At the top of video it was a note on Spanish, which was translated as

"Kirill Kaprizov continues in Moscow preparing for the next season, working hard at the academy with a personal trainer and bodybuilder Dmitry Yashankin,who is also ambassador of Reebok and Biotech in Russia."

 

[Alexandron]

Kind of an interesting news - it seems our Marcus Foligno is willing to fly to Russia and to grab Kaprizov back to the Wild according to his interview. Will see if that will happen.. Hopefully, the Wild organization still will be able to find any agreement with him and to sign him finally.

I started to look for the info regarding a triple gold club, because Kaprizov really wants to be a part of him during his career and I found an article presenting it:

https://www.iihf.com/en/static/5315/triple-gold-club

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Alexandron

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 8/11/2021 at 11:43 PM, lynxrattle said:

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/wild/the-minnesota-wild-are-better-off-pursuing-a-rebuild/

 

A thought - provoking article by Tony Abbott. Would we be better off trading Kap, getting the picks and prospects for him, develop the youngsters over the cap crunch years coming, and be competitive again by 2024 /2025? The thing with Kap is (like Russo stated) dealing with him has always been impossibly difficult. First it takes five years to get him in the NHL and then the dead end we are now at. Do we absolutely need a player this difficult, even if he is as good as Kap is?

 

I almost laughed when I saw Tony post it.  I had said more or less the same thing on Twitter a few weeks ago and people came out of the woodwork to tell me how stupid that was.  Tony told me the reaction to the article has been mixed.   

 

Its not a pleasant thought, but I heard Pat Micheletti say the same thing on KFAN.  Perhaps its time for Wild fans to embrace the suck and just be bad when you know you're already going to have all that dead money on the cap.  

 

The people that went after me on Twitter and probably went after Tony's article were the "we can't rebuild we have #97."  Well as Tony writes and as I said on Twitter...if we can't secure either #22 or #97 to long-term deals that go beyond the dead money years...perhaps the best thing to do is cut bait, trade them to get what value they can.  And build this back up over the course of a few seasons.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:33 PM, lynxrattle said:

Interesting article. I would not compare Kap to the rookie seasons of Alex Ovechkin, Teemu Selanne, Eric Lindros, Joe Nieuwendyk, Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille and Mario Lemieux. Kap was a lot older as a rookie than those players and he had played on the KHL for years which is not at all comparable to for example Selanne's lack of experience (playing in the Finnish league). Still Selanne was able to win the scoring title as well.

 

I get the reasons Abbott stated though. I think we should move on from Kap. It's been so difficult with him, that giving him the money he would need to sign, could end up in a Parise/Suter situation again. The Wild being held hostage by its stars, ruining the room, and the deal turning pretty sour once the underperforming begins.

 

I guess what annoys me about some of the arguments I'm seeing from some fans; especially the Reddit crowd.  Is how they're taking the side that #97 is simply trying to maximize his value and that he's indeed worthy of a $9 million deal.  Its as though they're projecting NHL seasons he never had, still basing it on the projections of last year's truncated strange season playing against just 7 teams in the league.  Almost trying to say we owe him for the years we never had?!?!  

 

That's crazy.  Why are we giving him credit for things he never did?  As Russo pointed out in his latest podcast, if he had wanted to be with the Wild earlier he certainly could have.  Instead he stalled...didn't meet with the team for 3 years after we drafted him.  Then finally they meet.  Another GM meets with him, and another.  He's made it a pain in the ass from the start.  I wouldn't budge one bit if I'm Guerin.  The team has been more than kind and more than patient with him.  

 

If he holds out, and I think that's a very realistic possibility.  If he does so, he's dead to me, just like Gaborik was after his hold out.    

[McMahon 6]

I'm seldom one to side with ownership or management in these types of situations. Especially after NHL owners killed the 2012 season in the name of "cost certainty" then wasted no time making a lie out of their own "cost certain" system by handing out Kovalchuk-sized contracts left and right.

 

6 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

I wouldn't budge one bit if I'm Guerin.  The team has been more than kind and more than patient with him.  

 

But I've gotta agree with ^this^ assessment: if offering a max length 8 year deal after a 55 game audition isn't being reasonable and generous, I don't know what is. I too hope that Guerin sticks to his guns.

 

The sad part is, fans like myself (and most others who wear Wild gear at the local watering holes I frequent) were finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel, and finally has reason to be optimistic about the Wild's future. The buyouts of (names redacted) made it clear that Guerin had finally convinced Leipold to clean house and start fresh. We were willing to embrace the suck for three dead cap space years, knowing that an instant supporting cast of NHL ready talent for #97 would quickly follow.

 

But if Kap decides to pull a Gaborik on the organization, he can pound sand IMO. If it does come to that, I just hope we get good value for him in trade -- probably easier said than done when other GMs see our leverage situation in the bargain. If we end up getting nothing for him like we did with Groinpull Gaborik, it's gonna be the Minnesota "No Stars" all over again: goodbye warming house, goodbye team of 18,000, and hello fan apathy with Met Center sized crowds.

 

Man, I really hope that something gets worked out: it'd be a helluva a lot of fun to watch a Wild team loaded for bear in 2025 with Kaprisov in his prime.

[CreaseAndAssist]

I would agree with most of that.  Although it was the Kovalchuk, Suter, Parise, DiPietro, Weber deals that prompted the 2012 lockout for cost certainty.  Then later, the decided to make it punitive for the clubs that made those deals and lucky us we had two of them.  

 

The argument the Kaprizov is just being smart in wanting a shorter term deal is that they feel if he locks in now to a long-term deal he may miss out on a possible bigger deal if the salary cap goes up.  They feel its only right that he wants to hedge his bet because he 'missed out' on earnings before that because he got off to a late start.  

 

Too bad, like I said earlier.  He could've come to North America sooner than he did.  He chose to stay, he chose to sign another KHL contract after we drafted him.  He delayed meeting with team management.  And for those that are wanting to put all of the blame on his agent for this.  He was evasive to this organization long before Paul Theofanous was representing him.  So is it really the agent as many Kaprizov apologists want you to believe, or is Kaprizov doing all he can to make his time in Minnesota short so he can go somewhere he actually wants to stay and play for and maybe make more money in the process?  

 

I am for trading him if he won't sign for a deal longer than 4 years.  Not sure what the return would be knowing it's kind of a must-sell moment but I'd imagine the player would tempt clubs to offer certainly much more than the lame ones they gave for Dumba.  

 

However, one would think that #97 was probably central to Guerin's plan after he bought out #20 and #11.  And was hoping to build the club around Kaprizov.  What a shame...

[Alexandron]

From the Michael Russo twit 4 hours ago: "Guerin says "things are going well enough" with Kaprizov and "we continue to move forward." Says there has been constant communication with Kaprizov's agent. Said it will be a longer deal than Fiala. On KHL threat: "It's not my decision. Doesn't bother me at all."

[McMahon 6]

On 8/15/2021 at 9:09 AM, CreaseAndAssist said:

However, one would think that #97 was probably central to Guerin's plan after he bought out #20 and #11.  And was hoping to build the club around Kaprizov.  What a shame...

 

Yep, Guerin's actions make it pretty clear that he was willing to give Kap the keys to everything in the franchise minus the old country club membership. It'd be a crying shame if he ends up being a marquee player for another team.

 

Dream shot # 1 is that the parties work something out, and after the Wild reach salary cap freedom, Kaprisov will decide that his best chance at the Cup and a big payday is to re-up right here in Minnesota.

 

If that fails to materialize, dream shot #2 would be for Kap to turn into a flash in the pan bust shortly after we've traded him for a boatload of assets. I for one would gleefully watch him kick himself at the thought of passing up an 8 year deal when he had the chance.

 

That would be a facepalm moment right up there with Decca Records, who turned down a chance to cheaply sign The Beatles to a recording contract in January 1962 because (A) The Beatles didn't sound good enough to sell records in commercial quantities, and (B) even if they were good, guitar bands in general were a passing fad on the verge of going out of style. Can you imagine having that dude as a scout or GM on your favorite hockey team?

[Alexandron]

1 hour ago, McMahon 6 said:

 

Yep, Guerin's actions make it pretty clear that he was willing to give Kap the keys to everything in the franchise minus the old country club membership. It'd be a crying shame if he ends up being a marquee player for another team.

 

Dream shot # 1 is that the parties work something out, and after the Wild reach salary cap freedom, Kaprisov will decide that his best chance at the Cup and a big payday is to re-up right here in Minnesota.

 

If that fails to materialize, dream shot #2 would be for Kap to turn into a flash in the pan bust shortly after we've traded him for a boatload of assets. I for one would gleefully watch him kick himself at the thought of passing up an 8 year deal when he had the chance.

 

That would be a facepalm moment right up there with Decca Records, who turned down a chance to cheaply sign The Beatles to a recording contract in January 1962 because (A) The Beatles didn't sound good enough to sell records in commercial quantities, and (B) even if they were good, guitar bands in general were a passing fad on the verge of going out of style. Can you imagine having that dude as a scout or GM on your favorite hockey team?

Nice comparison. Kaprizov and The Beatles. Sounds amazingly great!

[Alexandron]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:13 PM, Icechipper said:

I keep hearing the late B.B. King singing, "The Thrill is Gone."

 

And 97 should remember that Helmut Baldaris made this all possible....

Here is more :

Ariana Grande with TY Dolla $ign (Safety Net).

 

 

[Icechipper]

Here's a picture of my "White Album"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty cool, eh!?

[McMahon 6]

7 hours ago, Icechipper said:

Here's a picture of my "White Album"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty cool, eh!?

 

I hate to break it to ya, Chipper, but it looks like you have one of those cheap counterfeits made in China... if it had a nice, low serial number, you'd be sitting on a nice chunk of coin.

 

As far as the Kaprisov situation goes, for no good logical reason, I get the feeling that things will work out reasonably well in the end. Not sure why this is: maybe it's a dose of blind, stupid optimism that I just ingested (at least I think that's what the yellow barrel-shaped pills are for.. the street pharmacist neglected to label the bottle)

 

A not so illogical reason to be hopeful is the antics of Kap himself: as others have noted on this thread, he has made a pain in the ass of himself for quite some time now. If he continues doing so, other GMs are bound to notice, and #97 might not have the leverage he thinks he does if he decides to try his negotiation tactics elsewhere.

 

At least in MN, Kap would have a sure thing: an organization ready/willing/able to build around him on the ice, and rock star celebrity status off the ice. In a place like NY, he'd be just another blue shirt on the ice, and virtually unknown to most of the population off the ice ("Kapri-who? Never heard of him. Is he the new communist party boss or something?")  Hardly seems worth an extra mill or two a year.