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The Thrill: Wild vs Kaprizov... Who Flinches First?


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16 hours ago, McMahon 6 said:

 

Yep, Guerin's actions make it pretty clear that he was willing to give Kap the keys to everything in the franchise minus the old country club membership. It'd be a crying shame if he ends up being a marquee player for another team.

 

Dream shot # 1 is that the parties work something out, and after the Wild reach salary cap freedom, Kaprisov will decide that his best chance at the Cup and a big payday is to re-up right here in Minnesota.

 

If that fails to materialize, dream shot #2 would be for Kap to turn into a flash in the pan bust shortly after we've traded him for a boatload of assets. I for one would gleefully watch him kick himself at the thought of passing up an 8 year deal when he had the chance.

 

That would be a facepalm moment right up there with Decca Records, who turned down a chance to cheaply sign The Beatles to a recording contract in January 1962 because (A) The Beatles didn't sound good enough to sell records in commercial quantities, and (B) even if they were good, guitar bands in general were a passing fad on the verge of going out of style. Can you imagine having that dude as a scout or GM on your favorite hockey team?

 

Well we had a guy as GM who traded away Brett Hull for crap in return once, and then later we drafted players because they had Size 15 skates, or they could skate backwards better than anyone!  

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I don't think he wants less $$, he just wants less term.  I think Minnesota is a good place to play, but if you want to be marketed in a high-profile manner (and I think that's what he wants) he will want to take his game to an even more prominent market (Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Vegas, Tampa Bay, Chicago).  He knows the bidding war in 3 years when he becomes a UFA will be crazy and he'll make a mint.     Minnesota doesn't want to let it come to that, so its going

Hell if that's what he wants he should come to Ontario....10,000 lakes...chicken feed. We have 400,000 lakes and rivers. And Northern Ontario is about as close to a Siberian climate as you can get. We don't even have roads in northern Ontario...how Siberian is that?!? 

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37 minutes ago, McMahon 6 said:

 

I hate to break it to ya, Chipper, but it looks like you have one of those cheap counterfeits made in China... if it had a nice, low serial number, you'd be sitting on a nice chunk of coin.

 

As far as the Kaprisov situation goes, for no good logical reason, I get the feeling that things will work out reasonably well in the end. Not sure why this is: maybe it's a dose of blind, stupid optimism that I just ingested (at least I think that's what the yellow barrel-shaped pills are for.. the street pharmacist neglected to label the bottle)

 

A not so illogical reason to be hopeful is the antics of Kap himself: as others have noted on this thread, he has made a pain in the ass of himself for quite some time now. If he continues doing so, other GMs are bound to notice, and #97 might not have the leverage he thinks he does if he decides to try his negotiation tactics elsewhere.

 

At least in MN, Kap would have a sure thing: an organization ready/willing/able to build around him on the ice, and rock star celebrity status off the ice. In a place like NY, he'd be just another blue shirt on the ice, and virtually unknown to most of the population off the ice ("Kapri-who? Never heard of him. Is he the new communist party boss or something?")  Hardly seems worth an extra mill or two a year.

 

I agree, he's a big fish in a small pond in Minnesota.  He'd just be another star player, in a big market who still cares far more about Football, Basketball and Baseball than hockey.  Oh well, Kaprizov can save this or he can screw it up himself.  If he choose the latter, I won't waste a minute thinking / worrying about him EVER again.  He'd be just a 'what if' piece of trivia and then moving on to more recent Wild drama instead.  

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Screw KK. You put the 7 year deal on the table and say take it or leave it. He is being paid after his camp made us wait for 5 years while he screwed around in the KHL. You want to go back there then go back. 

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34 minutes ago, TonyOday said:

Screw KK. You put the 7 year deal on the table and say take it or leave it. He is being paid after his camp made us wait for 5 years while he screwed around in the KHL. You want to go back there then go back. 

Yeah. $70 mil. isn't enough based on such a small sample size of games? 🙄

 

You've got to be [insert] kidding me.

 

How the Wild is always able to draft and acquire these money-grubbers is beyond belief...

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This is not going to be a popular take but here goes......

 

I say sign Kaprizov regardless of cost, but preferably a 4 year deal rather than 3. The more years the better his trade value. This team isn’t winning a cup going forward because of the cap restrictions. Let’s get him signed and give it our best shot next year before the cap hits. After next season, I say we do a quick tear down and rebuild this thing around Rossi, Boldy, Addison, Kappo, etc. Trade Kaprizov for a haul. Move Dumba for young talent. Trade Spurgeon and Brodin if you have takers. If we rebuild around youth the cap isn’t as big a factor. You could afford to keep Greenway if you like at that point. I just think that with the cap issues you can’t win a cup. What good is Kaprizov for 3-4 years if he really wants to play somewhere else. Let’s move him and use him to rebuild.

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23 minutes ago, TallyTigerShark said:

This is not going to be a popular take but here goes......

 

I say sign Kaprizov regardless of cost, but preferably a 4 year deal rather than 3. The more years the better his trade value. This team isn’t winning a cup going forward because of the cap restrictions. Let’s get him signed and give it our best shot next year before the cap hits. After next season, I say we do a quick tear down and rebuild this thing around Rossi, Boldy, Addison, Kappo, etc. Trade Kaprizov for a haul. Move Dumba for young talent. Trade Spurgeon and Brodin if you have takers. If we rebuild around youth the cap isn’t as big a factor. You could afford to keep Greenway if you like at that point. I just think that with the cap issues you can’t win a cup. What good is Kaprizov for 3-4 years if he really wants to play somewhere else. Let’s move him and use him to rebuild.

 

That's actually not a bad take.
I was thinking the Wild should trade Kirill as well...but BEFORE things got this late in the off season.
Fiala too while they were at it if other teams were high enough on him to send back a nice package of picks and prospects.

I too don't believe the Wild will be winning anything over the course of the next 3 or 4 seasons, so they may as well go on with their young players, vets willing to stick around and go from there.

All that said, it really is difficult to WANT to trade a talented and exciting player like Kaprizov, and I do understand that part of it.
And if Guerin did do such a thing, he would be betting that all his moves thereafter would pay off....otherwise......... he gets brained and fired for "being that GM that let Kirill get away".
 

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  • TropicalFruitGirl26 changed the title to The Thrill: Wild vs Kaprizov... Who Flinches First?
12 hours ago, TallyTigerShark said:

This is not going to be a popular take but here goes......

 

I say sign Kaprizov regardless of cost, but preferably a 4 year deal rather than 3. The more years the better his trade value. This team isn’t winning a cup going forward because of the cap restrictions. Let’s get him signed and give it our best shot next year before the cap hits. After next season, I say we do a quick tear down and rebuild this thing around Rossi, Boldy, Addison, Kappo, etc. Trade Kaprizov for a haul. Move Dumba for young talent. Trade Spurgeon and Brodin if you have takers. If we rebuild around youth the cap isn’t as big a factor. You could afford to keep Greenway if you like at that point. I just think that with the cap issues you can’t win a cup. What good is Kaprizov for 3-4 years if he really wants to play somewhere else. Let’s move him and use him to rebuild.

 

No.  IMO, if you're signing him to less than 4 years what's the point with the dead money part that is the reality of the next 4 seasons?  Kaprizov can rot, and so can his value.  If he wants to bet on himself, he has to do so for a minimum of 5 more seasons in Minnesota otherwise its a waste of our time let alone cap space.    

 

Dumba isn't going to help get the Wild anything.  Teams have been offering the Wild crap for him for nearly two years.  They know the Wild has to move him, so the return will be paltry.  

 

Spurgeon and Brodin both have NMC's.  They control their destiny and I don't think they'll just waive it to do the team a favor.  Also, if you get rid of #46, #25 and #24?  How horrible will this Wild blueline be?  The Wild have Addison, O'Rourke, Lambos...as possible replacements but to the level that you had before?  I think that's a bit of a reach and a giant risk.  

 

Kaapo isn't who you are building around, its Jesper Wallstedt.  

 

I have zero problem with trading Kaprizov.  I think teams would give up a lot for him, far more than Dumba.  But I think I'd let him wait.  I'd drop my offer down too.  He wants less term, ok...then he's going to get less $$$ per year too.  Don't give him the top dollar term if he's not willing to budge on a short-term deal.  Then he can truly bet on himself or go to the KHL and kill his own 'big payday.'  

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I'm no scout, but I know scouts. There's a reason NHL general managers passed on this kid 134 times before Wild selected him in the draft. He's 24 and has already played on three KHL teams and a shortened season in the NHL. Not saying he's a good or bad dude, nor blaming this on agents. Just seems that the scouting community likely labeled him as a headache in some fashion.

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4 hours ago, Icechipper said:

I'm no scout, but I know scouts. There's a reason NHL general managers passed on this kid 134 times before Wild selected him in the draft. He's 24 and has already played on three KHL teams and a shortened season in the NHL. Not saying he's a good or bad dude, nor blaming this on agents. Just seems that the scouting community likely labeled him as a headache in some fashion.

 

I don't think many teams knew about him.  He was in playing in Siberia, but I think at first we kind of felt it was the Wild who didn't make the effort to see him.  It was simply the other way around.  

 

I think he's a good player and I do think he gives it his all for whatever team he's playing for.  However, that doesn't mean he wants to stay and play in Minnesota or that fits what his goals are for himself.  

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I hear the Russian style of negotiating is about you winning and the other guy losing, a win-win style of approach being strange for them. The way things are going it certainly looks to go towards somebody losing.

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8 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

I hear the Russian style of negotiating is about you winning and the other guy losing, a win-win style of approach being strange for them. The way things are going it certainly looks to go towards somebody losing.

 

That's an interesting observation.  So does he and his agent see this as a clash of egos?  An American actually came up with the win-win philosophy of business, a guy by the name of Mr. Demming.  His idea was where you treat your employees well, with respect, ask them for their input etc, and in turn the employers buy in and do what's best for the company because they feel a reason to do so because they want what's best for the company because that's what's best for them.  Thus a win-win.  

 

I don't see why #97 making less than $9 million a season is a loss for him.  In fact, I think Guerin kind of took the more modern philosophy you see more and more.  You post a fair price and its not really up to a lot of haggling.  I think with 55 games as the sample size, the Wild are being rather generous in their offer.  Certainly far more generous than they were with Fiala. 

 

The Reddit folks make it sound like they're asking Kaprizov to mortgage his future earnings by taking an 7-or-8 year deal on the idea that the cap will go up and that $9 million will be a bargain.  But is that really true?  While the cap may crawl up a little, I don't think teams are going to be tossing out $15 million season contracts.  The league just doesn't generate the revenue for that, especially now with the uncertainty over where the pandemic is headed.  

 

I see other fans wanting to give him $10 million or more per season already?  That's insane.  IMO, if Fiala has to 'have another big year' to prove it.  Then so should Kaprizov and he should be paid much the same if its going to be a fairly short deal.  Like I said earlier, if he wants to bet on himself, then let him truly bet on himself.  But giving him $8+ million on a short term deal doesn't force him to really do that.  

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It wouldn't be the Wild message board without someone posting a "Wild fans think _______ is Jesus" meme. I wonder which player will be next since Kirill has been done now.

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1 hour ago, Gnarkill said:

It wouldn't be the Wild message board without someone posting a "Wild fans think _______ is Jesus" meme. I wonder which player will be next since Kirill has been done now.

 

70AA4860-DBCB-4051-AB6B-208C15A756B2.jpeg

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I do agree there. All we know for sure is that Kap was marvelous in a truncated mini-season, a little bit invisible in the playoffs, and that the season was not played against all of the teams. We just don't know if he could be worth the money he was offered. It's really a gamble giving him all he wants. We might end up losing the room, cap space and Kap himself in the style of Bobrovsky/Panarin.

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23 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

I do agree there. All we know for sure is that Kap was marvelous in a truncated mini-season, a little bit invisible in the playoffs, and that the season was not played against all of the teams. We just don't know if he could be worth the money he was offered. It's really a gamble giving him all he wants. We might end up losing the room, cap space and Kap himself in the style of Bobrovsky/Panarin.

Or maybe not. Probably, this coming week is going to be the most important on making a final decision between the Wild and Kaprizov. 

Zuccarello called few times to Kaprizov during off-season and it seems he is going to play here. Kirill does not have other options beside the Wild and he is not planning to change NHL to KHL. Sorokin also talked to Kaprizov. And has same opinion regarding Kirill's plans. Let's be more optimistic and hockey Gods will hear us(fans) too. 

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On 8/20/2021 at 4:05 PM, Gnarkill said:

It wouldn't be the Wild message board without someone posting a "Wild fans think _______ is Jesus" meme. I wonder which player will be next since Kirill has been done now.

 

Honestly, its almost like Finnish Baby Jesus all over again!  Except its Russian Rasputin Jesus instead.  I really liked the meme, I might even use it in article if this contract stalemate continues.  I wonder if some Russian tabloid will pick up on it like the Finnish tabloid did when I posted that meme from the boards back in the day.  

 

The Wild.com message boards were meme master's even before they were given the name of memes.  

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6 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

If it's minimum five years, I'll be hopeful.

Me too, and even longer, but hockey Gods know this part better. Hopefully decision will be done, and hopefully Kaprizov will find a friend in Kulikov and will not feel alone here. Probably, Guerin was predicting this by signing Kulikov.

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On 8/20/2021 at 10:50 PM, lynxrattle said:

I do agree there. All we know for sure is that Kap was marvelous in a truncated mini-season, a little bit invisible in the playoffs, and that the season was not played against all of the teams. We just don't know if he could be worth the money he was offered. It's really a gamble giving him all he wants. We might end up losing the room, cap space and Kap himself in the style of Bobrovsky/Panarin.

 

Exactly why they shouldn't give him all he wants.  IMO, its setting an ugly precedent and whether we want to admit it or not.  We need Fiala too.  Kaprizov should want Fiala to be here too.  But this kind of double-standard treatment certainly makes it tough or rather difficult for Fiala to feel he's part of this team's plans when they seem to demand that he proves it while the other gets the keys to the castle, the team car, and anything else he wants and no demands that he prove anything.  

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On 8/22/2021 at 9:56 AM, CreaseAndAssist said:

But this kind of double-standard treatment certainly makes it tough or rather difficult for Fiala to feel he's part of this team's plans when they seem to demand that he proves it while the other gets the keys to the castle, the team car, and anything else he wants and no demands that he prove anything.  

 

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The good news: a deal with a potential franchise player very likely. The bad news: the franchise might not be the Wild after a couple of years. Let's hope for a sensible deal and long-term commitment. 

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Someone hasn't brought this up, but there is another 'deadline' of sorts here.  His work visa, which to my understanding he hasn't applied for yet.  It takes about a month to process things if all goes well.  As of tomorrow we're about a month before our first pre-season game.  

 

I am certainly not of the camp that wants to see the Wild cave and give into his demands.  Rather, I'd dig in and make him lose $$ for every day he wishes to make this a pain.  

 

I hope the Wild squeeze him, and shrink the offer down.  Consider it a real world lesson in negotiations.  

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Actually, Kaprizov had an interview when he have got a Calder Trophy. I didn't know about that.  Just found out. I also read some twits about his contract prediction that he , probably, will sign a contract for 5 years (for $45 mln.). Hopefully, that this prediction will be right.

 

Here is a link to his Calder Trophy interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQJa55tzZv0

 

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