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The Thrill: Wild vs Kaprizov... Who Flinches First?


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3 hours ago, McMahon 6 said:

Personally, I'd even be OK with a 4 year deal, though longer would be better.

This is where I am too. Lock him up for as long as possible but if 4 is all you can get I think you have to do it. He might be open to an extension later and after 4 years the cap issues are gone. If he makes it clear to the brass that he isn’t going to resign, trade him in year 3. If he performs like he did this past year, he might be one of the biggest trade pieces you will ever have. You’d get quite the haul.

 

Do you think this is all about years and dollars or is Kaprisov potentially dragging this out some to see how we address the center position to help him??

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I don't think he wants less $$, he just wants less term.  I think Minnesota is a good place to play, but if you want to be marketed in a high-profile manner (and I think that's what he wants) he will want to take his game to an even more prominent market (Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Vegas, Tampa Bay, Chicago).  He knows the bidding war in 3 years when he becomes a UFA will be crazy and he'll make a mint.     Minnesota doesn't want to let it come to that, so its going

Hell if that's what he wants he should come to Ontario....10,000 lakes...chicken feed. We have 400,000 lakes and rivers. And Northern Ontario is about as close to a Siberian climate as you can get. We don't even have roads in northern Ontario...how Siberian is that?!? 

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1 hour ago, TallyTigerShark said:

Do you think this is all about years and dollars or is Kaprisov potentially dragging this out some to see how we address the center position to help him??

 

If it's dollars that Kaprisov wants, he would've jumped at the Wild's 8 year offer. I think you hit it right on the head by thinking that Kap is waiting to see what the team looks like in a few years before deciding to commit long term. A decent center would go a long way in this regard. So would some toughness to put the fear of God into opponents who declare open season on the Granlunds, Zuckers and Kaprisovs of the world.

 

Kap's enthusiastic demeanor on the ice and on the bench gives me the impression that he likes it here a lot. If Guerin can keep it that way, a contract extension down the road could be a relatively easy sell. And as you suggest, if things don't end up going south, the Wild could shop him early and get enough assets in trade to have a fast rebuild on their hands.

 

So far, Guerin appears to be making good, sensible decisions: a refreshing change from previous GMs here. I'm more optimistic about the Wild's future than I have been in several years, and I'm also optimistic about Kaprisov wearing #97 with us for a long time. Many pro athletes don't want to come to Minnesota because it's perceived as small market flyover country. But once they get here, more often than not, they don't want to leave (and if they do finish their careers elsewhere, they end up coming back and buying a home in MN to raise their family, with the original McMahon 6 and several former North Stars being cases in point)

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7 hours ago, McMahon 6 said:

 

If it's dollars that Kaprisov wants, he would've jumped at the Wild's 8 year offer. I think you hit it right on the head by thinking that Kap is waiting to see what the team looks like in a few years before deciding to commit long term. A decent center would go a long way in this regard. So would some toughness to put the fear of God into opponents who declare open season on the Granlunds, Zuckers and Kaprisovs of the world.

 

Kap's enthusiastic demeanor on the ice and on the bench gives me the impression that he likes it here a lot. If Guerin can keep it that way, a contract extension down the road could be a relatively easy sell. And as you suggest, if things don't end up going south, the Wild could shop him early and get enough assets in trade to have a fast rebuild on their hands.

 

So far, Guerin appears to be making good, sensible decisions: a refreshing change from previous GMs here. I'm more optimistic about the Wild's future than I have been in several years, and I'm also optimistic about Kaprisov wearing #97 with us for a long time. Many pro athletes don't want to come to Minnesota because it's perceived as small market flyover country. But once they get here, more often than not, they don't want to leave (and if they do finish their careers elsewhere, they end up coming back and buying a home in MN to raise their family, with the original McMahon 6 and several former North Stars being cases in point)

 

I think Kaprizov would like it just about anywhere.  He's easy to like and he seems to have a good time wherever he goes by what I can see.  The only question is would he have the patience to wait 4 years to be good because that's probably going to be the situation given the dead money the club now has because of the buyout.  

 

I don't think making a move for Eichel is the way to do it.  I would agree with you on Bill Guerin so far.  He certainly has taken control of the team's cultural direction and has gutted the roster of the country club.  I still think you have to get #97 to at least commit to a 5-year deal.  That gives you the time to then show him how you are going to build around him.  Also, your youngsters like Rossi, Boldy and others have had the chance to mature and you can see more of the true potential of the club.  IMO, we won't be there in 3 years and that seems to be the deal #97 are holding firm on so far.  

 

Dream shot would be to somehow get Alexander Barkov but I heard the Panthers are working hard to try to extend him.  However, I think the best bet is probably drafting one rather than trying to trade or pick one up via free agency.  Even Guerin said teams don't deal away top line centers.  

 

 

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If its just a 4 year deal.  All you can do is just tell him what you're going to do.  If you can get him to accept a 5-year deal you can actually let him see and experience what you're going to do to build the team into a perennial contender.  

 

I think the marketing campaign is going to happen whether they sign him to a 3-year deal or an 8-year one.  With the fossils gone, he's the clear cut face of the franchise at this point.  

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7 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

If its just a 4 year deal.  All you can do is just tell him what you're going to do.  If you can get him to accept a 5-year deal you can actually let him see and experience what you're going to do to build the team into a perennial contender.  

 

I think the marketing campaign is going to happen whether they sign him to a 3-year deal or an 8-year one.  With the fossils gone, he's the clear cut face of the franchise at this point.  

 

Totally agree that a 5 year deal would be the sweet spot for the very reason you mention: it'd give the Wild a chance to say "OK, Kaps, our boat anchors are finally off the books and we have salary cap freedom. Here comes your supporting cast, and they're all NHL ready right now!" Any pieces we can add between now and then from Iowa or elsewhere would be gravy.

 

If the Kaprisov camp refuses to go longer than 3 years, then the Wild might be best served to go the sign and shop route. At any rate, Guerin has hopefully pulled the 8 year deal off the table, in the unlikely chance that #97 turns out to be a 55 game flash in the pan. I can almost see it now:

 

Kaprisov camp: "Don't read too much into the second season stats: everyone gets the sophomore jinx. Everything will be fine. By the way, that 8 year deal sounds good after all: where do we sign?"

 

Guerin: "You had your chance to be set for life after 55 games, and ya blew it. Let's wait another season to see if that jinx goes away before we talk more money."

 

Personally, I think Kaprisov is the real deal, but ya never know from one abbreviated season: if he does get an 8 year deal and turns into another Brian Lawton or Dave Archibald, we'll all be screaming "Didn't the Wild learn anything from Suter and Parise about the risk of long term deals?!"

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I think 97 turning down the 8 year deal is a blessing in disguise.

Too many players look great initially and get a bad injury that changes their game completely.

Also this will giv BG time to educate Kirill about the wisdom of taking less to make winnig easier.

 

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Sincerely, I do not remember when player turn down 8 year long superb offer in the Wild history. I think it happened for the 1st time and it happened with a 1st Calder trophy winner for the Wild club. I also do not remember, that Calder trophy winner (who had 99 out of 100 voters) turned his play bad after the trophy in the professional hockey. Kaprizov is not Parise and Suter, he is a completely different player and has a completely different character. We should sign him for the term he wants, because we will not lose anything but will develop a huge interest to the team from the world media. We should think only positive to have him for any time in our team. This situation it happens once in a life time. Any madness around him is not acceptable, because he is a world class player.

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IMO, if he wants to go to the KHL that's on him.  The Wild have been more than fair in their offers.  He's a player who was just under a point per game and he's wanting McDavid / Matthews money.   

 

I doubt the KHL deal is McDavid / Matthews money either.  However if he thinks that's going to raise his stock with NHL clubs, it won't.  It won't make his offers in 3 years from now any better.  It won't make his game any better biding his time there and perhaps trying to sharpen his NHL teeth some more in the Olympics.  

 

If I'm Guerin, I'd hold firm at $8-$9 million / 8 years...and only reluctantly move down to 5 years at the same amount.  Anything less than 5 years doesn't make sense given the team's cap situation.  He's not a $10 million+ player yet, he could be...but he's got to show he can be that IMO before you give it to him.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

If he even hints he wants the play elsewhere, the Wild are screwed, be it his attitude now or three years from now. Gaborik 2.0. And should he "tweaks" his groin, it will be deja Vu again🦵

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9 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

If he even hints he wants the play elsewhere, the Wild are screwed, be it his attitude now or three years from now. Gaborik 2.0. And should he "tweaks" his groin, it will be deja Vu again🦵

 

For now, its either the Wild or play in Europe.  IMO, I'd say enjoy Europe if he's not going to budge.  The Wild save cap space while he waits.  If he wants a big payday, he has to play in the NHL to make teams want to give him one.  And for now, that can only be with the Wild.  

 

I'm with the Wild and Russo on this one.  Kaprizov will find he'll burn a lot of bridges if he turns this into a holdout.  There is no way to construe the Wild's offer as unfair or cheap.  If anything, I think you can argue they've been very generous.  

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The longer this goes on, the more I get nervous about Kaprizov's character. Is it a Me, Myself and I personality hidden back in there? "I'll play ball, but only with my exact terms and in a team molded around me"? The offer made by the Wild is big enough already.

 

The Wild can't give in. Otherwise it could become a Kaprizov country club following the Parise/Suter country club. We should get some really nice picks/prospects for him, if he is a rotten apple.

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They offered him more term and money than I would have off the bat.. but if the length is the only thing keeping this from getting done.. Throw a fair 4-5 year deal at him and call it good. If he takes it he takes it.. if not that's on him. The Wild have been more than fair in their original offer. Just make sure you set the contract up so his next pay day comes when the buyouts are coming off the books a few years down the road so you can make that big next offer too.

 

Would he get paid more from the KHL? nah. Would he get paid more with under the table deals to play in the KHL? possibly... we hear about that type of thing all the time.. but I can't personally prove it happens. If he wants to play in the NHL there's only one route atm. If he doesn't want to play in the NHL.. sadly, there really isn't anything the Wild can do.

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I don't buy him wanting to go back to the KHL thing at all.  It won't help him earn a big NHL payday at all.  I think they've been more than fair.  I said this on Twitter, but I'd say 7 or 8 years at $9.5 million and take off $2 million for every year he wants less than that.  To give him the 3 year (or less) deal at $9.5 million is absolutely ridiculous.  You can't give in on term but still pay him a premium.  You only pay the premium if the term is longer.  

 

Fiala being taken to arbitration by Minnesota means it will be either a 1-year or 2-year deal depending on what Fiala chooses.  The Wild obviously have prioritized signing Kaprizov and offered him more $$ than Fiala so he might be a little annoyed at the team.  

 

I think Fiala is worth about $6 million per season, but I don't think he'll sign a long-term deal either because then he couldn't get a no trade clause.  

 

I think Kaprizov is a team-centered guy, he blocked shots, played defense and did his share of tough work on shifts.  IMO, that's not the way some prima-dona / diva plays the game.  However, I do think his agent sees Panarin 2.0 and so he's trying to do the same thing for Kaprizov that he did for him.  That might be the agent, but still...Kaprizov is no naive kid.  He's 24, he has to be ok with what his agent is doing, at least so far.  The longer this goes, the more fans will turn on him for that.  Same thing happened when Gaborik held out.  

 

I never forgave Gaborik for that and if Kaprizov holds out, neither should Wild fans.  The team has been more than fair with its offers so far; but now is the time to start tightening up the offers.  I think Guerin will do that, but who knows.  Kaprizov is a special talent and if the team didn't agree they wouldn'tve already offered him Brayden Point money (i.e. $9.5 million) but they have by my understanding.  

Edited by CreaseAndAssist
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Russo has reported this for a while now.  Yet, as I said on Twitter and in my article.  This doesn't happen unless Kaprizov is ok with it.  If Kaprizov wants lesser term, then the team should pay him less per season.  I'd make it incremental.  For every year less than 7-8 years, I'd drop at least $1.5-$2 million off per season.  He shouldn't get paid a premium AND the term he's seeking.  He's got to choose one or the other.  

 

Russo seems to think Kaprizov has one foot out of the door already.  If so, if you have him agree to any deal 3-years or less, then you have to say its 1 year less than whatever he agrees to.  So 3 years is 2 years...and 2 years is 1 year.  And if its just a 1-year deal you more or less are compelled to trade him right now.  

 

Its just about the same with Fiala.  Sounds like there is a fair chance they could lose both of them.  

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10 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Its just about the same with Fiala.  Sounds like there is a fair chance they could lose both of them.  

Sounds possible to me as well. Fiala on arbitration and Kap with still no deal. First you spend 10 years waiting for first rate skills and then you spend your time worrying about their staying...

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If Fiala reaches arbitration it can only result in a 1-year or 2-year deal, his choice.  If he wants anything longer than that he's got to reach a deal before then.  IMO, the Wild would be wise to at least try to mend that fence and secure a longer deal with him.  

 

I think losing one of these two seemed probable from the start.  But losing both, I doubt that was part of Bill Guerin's plan when he bought out #20 and #11.  The only 'benefit' if you call it that that can come from not signing these two is that it will make it a lot easier to cheapen the roster without them.  And maybe that's the fallback all along.  Ok, if they won't play for X of $$$ at X amount of term, then at least we're not hit with this much of $$$ in the cap hits and we'll just fill it with younger, cheaper or shorter term deals instead and we don't have to cannibalize our lineup in other areas just to make it work.  

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34 minutes ago, Jimtown guy said:

I didn't like this either, but the farther along this goes, the more I'm learning to just accept the situation. If Kap's cap space is freed by not having him, the cap space is available for something else.

 

This might also mean the continuation of the Wild's now understandable risk aversion in drafting Russian players. The KHL option is too enticing to them.

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https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/kirill-kaprizov-has-a-tentative-one-year-deal-in-place-with-cska-moscow/

 

Eight figure deal, so at least 10 million. I'd say ten million is the max amount the Wild could play for anyone and that anyone would preferably have to be a 1C. I would need to see Kap scoring in the playoffs before I could even begin thinking about such a deal.

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4 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/kirill-kaprizov-has-a-tentative-one-year-deal-in-place-with-cska-moscow/

 

Eight figure deal, so at least 10 million. I'd say ten million is the max amount the Wild could play for anyone and that anyone would preferably have to be a 1C. I would need to see Kap scoring in the playoffs before I could even begin thinking about such a deal.

 

Anyone over this crap yet?  Not on the post, but just tired of the posturing on #97 and his agent's part.  To hell with him.  Negotiation is a two-way street...at this point I'm probably just going to shut the door.  

 

If he wants to go play for tax free rubles...to hell with him.  

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Just found that info from the Russo twit:

"Hearing Kirill Kaprizov has a tentative agreement in place with CSKA Moscow on a one-year, 8-figure deal ($USD) to begin on Sept. 1 - should a new contract not materialize with #mnwild. However, the Wild appear ready and willing to talk a medium-term length deal."

That means Wild organization still hoping to sign him at least to a medium term, but I do not think it will happen.  Probably, he even made a decision when he was playing in Minnesota. Something he really did not like here. Or coach Evason decisions  , or GM Guerin decisions. No one knows. I think he was feeling alone too and probably, feeling a hate to Russian players in this organization. 

I do not care at all how ready for NHL Khovanov; Guskov; Nesterenko; Firstov; Khusnutdinov; Gordeev; Falkovsky; Sokolov;  Lodnia. How we should know that without a try? We should bring them for a tryout to the Wild club immediately to see what are capable to do here. I know for many decades that Russian players always bring intrigue and an interest to any NHL team. Kaprizov was an example for our team last season. Why he did not show a lot of production during a playoffs? Because probably, something happen during that time in the locker room among players, some chemistry was broken. Another example, 2 consecutive years Stanley Cup winner Tampa team.

Life is too short for an idiotic wait. I do wait that for 20 years and I am 60 already. Like I said in other thread I do see some hate to Russian players at AHL Iowa team coming for years from a coach Tim Army, who should be fired just for that job. I do not care who makes decision to fire him or not.  He limited badly in play exclusively Russian players. Is that normal 4-5-7-14 games to play in AHL just only for Russian players, and the rest players are playing entire season. He is not capable to select and to develop any talent from Iowa. The best AHL and KHL players in that team will play in other clubs, because he is waiting. I think if the coach is an idiot then any player can show his character as well. Why our former Iowa and a Wild coach Torchetti was able to find a solid communication to Khovanov who was a star in his team, but a Russian KHL coach for Ak Bars Kazan team was not able to do that? Coach should be an artist in his work. And lots depending from the coach. Still Khovanov was the best player last season at VHL, which is a supreme hockey league there( 2nd after KHL). AHL staying close to VHL, but not equal.

Overall, it does not seem for me that the Wild organization is looking well (it is a bad imagination) when we see such a long period of time for  not signing 2 team's stars; 2 talented players to the Wild team Fiala and Kaprizov. And to take a court against a player it does not looking well for the club. I never heard this before. Probably, it will create a madness for Fiala too against Guerin.

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