Wild off-season 2021

[Alexandron]

8 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

He's a decent player and if he can win 50%+ of his draws its already an important win on a cheap 2-year deal.  I've watched him with the Predators and the Admirals.  He plays hard each shift, he has decent speed and is a good forechecker.  He's bottom 6 forward that knows he's a bottom 6 forward.  

LIG, I would prefer to see tryouts in Gaudreau's place Rossi; Dewar; Giroux; Boldy; Beckman; Lodnia; Khovanov; Guskov; Firstov; Nesterenko and etc. who are presenting much more interest. Personally for me, it does not matter how cheap is this 2-year deal. He took someone place and playing time. Now we will have 2 undrafted players in the 4th line - Sturm and Gaudreau. Hope they will be good, but still some GM decisions discouraging me more and more. Goligoski contract is one of them too. 36 y.o. Suter was replaced on 36 y.o. Goligoski for such a high contract. I am not sure if he is better than Suter. Probably not.

But I am sure if we had Lemaire as a coach; he will try all of current prospects including former prospects Sokolov and Mayhew as soon as possible despite of owner; AHL coach or GM strange requests/decisions. He was the most bravest coach I have seen experimenting with every possible presenting an interest material. We do not have this anymore. Some fans are talking about 4 years before the team will be as a Cup contender. This term is too optimistic from my observation. Probably, it will take another 20 years.

[Jimtown guy]

I deleted a post that was about Kaprizov signing with khl. After further review the guy who posted it on Twitter appears to be a troll. He better be 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Jimtown guy

[Icechipper]

Kaprisov Ek Zuccarello

Greenway Rask Foligno

Boldy Bjugstad Fiala

Sturm Hartman Geudreau

 

Brodin Dumba

Goligoski Spurgeon

Kulikov Merrill

 

Talbot

Kahkonen

 

Rossi will start in Iowa

Addison in Iowa

 

Rau Duhaime Lizzote scratches

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Icechipper
Add goalies

[EmptyShelf]

23 hours ago, Icechipper said:

Kaprisov Ek Zuccarello

Greenway Rask Foligno

Boldy Bjugstad Fiala

Sturm Hartman Geudreau

 

Brodin Dumba

Goligoski Spurgeon

Kulikov MerrillI

 

Talbot

Kahkonen

 

Rossi will start in Iowa

Addison in Iowaa 

 

Rau Duhaime Lizzote scratches

 

 

I see where you are coming from, but I want Rossi up now.  I also would like to see them break camp with Addison up.  It is time to quit blocking the talent we have, as the Wild don't move people up enough for my liking, and I don't want them languishing in IA until after the New Year (unless we are trying to tank).  If we are going to take some 'lumps', I would rather do it this year with the young guys, before we have a huge pinch on the budget from the 'Millstone Contract Fallout'.  IF Rossi is truly a hard worker and has been skating all summer, I expect that he will be ready to go., and I think Addison is too.  Rask simply cannot be a Top 2 Center for us to have a reasonable season, and for Boldy to develop.  I am also not sure that they will be breaking up the EEK, Green, Ferrigno line, so I would like to see a better option than Rask, Bjug, or Hartman centering one of our Top 2 lines (with his history, I don't see Bjug playing more than 50% of the games either).  Gaudreau and Merrill should not be in a regular rotation, or we are tanking intentionally IMHO.

[Hockey-78]

23 hours ago, Icechipper said:

Kaprisov Ek Zuccarello

Greenway Rask Foligno

Boldy Bjugstad Fiala

Sturm Hartman Geudreau

 

Brodin Dumba

Goligoski Spurgeon

Kulikov Merrill

 

Talbot

Kahkonen

 

Rossi will start in Iowa

Addison in Iowa

 

Rau Duhaime Lizzote scratches

 

 

That is not a contender unless Suter and Parise were even bigger cancers than everyone believes.

[Alexandron]

6 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

I see where you are coming from, but I want Rossi up now.  I also would like to see them break camp with Addison up.  It is time to quit blocking the talent we have, as the Wild don't move people up enough for my liking, and I don't want them languishing in IA until after the New Year (unless we are trying to tank).  If we are going to take some 'lumps', I would rather do it this year with the young guys, before we have a huge pinch on the budget from the 'Millstone Contract Fallout'.  IF Rossi is truly a hard worker and has been skating all summer, I expect that he will be ready to go., and I think Addison is too.  Rask simply cannot be a Top 2 Center for us to have a reasonable season, and for Boldy to develop.  I am also not sure that they will be breaking up the EEK, Green, Ferrigno line, so I would like to see a better option than Rask, Bjug, or Hartman centering one of our Top 2 lines (with his history, I don't see Bjug playing more than 50% of the games either).  Gaudreau and Merrill should not be in a regular rotation, or we are tanking intentionally IMHO.

I want them (Rossi,Boldy and Addison) ASAP too. Undrafted players(Sturm and Gaudreau) and 6th round;#156 overall pick (Spurgeon , he even a captain now) found the place here , but somehow 1st;2nd;3rd;4th round picks always struggle to find their own place here even at least for a nice tryout for the last 12 seasons in a row. Not acceptable way with a last 4 coaches and 3 GM. They should take an example from Lemaire how we should look for a better player out of our own drafts instead of looking for an average players do not presenting a lot of interest.

Still not sure if Fiala and Kaprizov will accept their offers too. Otherwise the Wild team will look as a typical mediocre team this season, IMO.

 

[lynxrattle]

It's getting very frustrating waiting for those deals. I haven't even heard anything about Fiala's situation. The worst case scenario would be being forced to start shopping both of them. On the other hand, who knows? Maybe they would bring something more valuable.

[Alexandron]

What even makes me more sad in this discussion when Russo asked Guerin if we will be able to see Boldy, Rossi and Addison in the big club. And Guerin answered- it depends how they will do during the training summer camp. What? 1st round picks Boldy and Rossi; and 2nd round pick smartest defenseman Addison who proved well already his play during the regular season(3 games) and during playoffs (3 games) last season in the Wild team need to prove something, but freshly signed undrafted Gaudreau; Goligoski; Merill and Kulikov do not need on proving anything and to take spot; playing time; money out of our prospects! Such a waste! Wow. Who makes the main crucial decisions for this club now? GM Guerin; Wild Head Coach Evason; stubborn AHL coach Army who is not able to bring/to prepare any real talent from Iowa to Minnesota or the owner? 

I am already thinking if Guerin will not be able to sign for any term Kaprizov and Fiala, then he will have a chance to lose his job.

 I even not talking what he did sign in Iowa this season and last season.

Only 2 things which I am happy so far out of Guerin this off season:

he was able to sign EEK and to pick a 1st round goalie draft. And the rest are huge questions.

 

 

[Alexandron]

35 minutes ago, lynxrattle said:

It's getting very frustrating waiting for those deals. I haven't even heard anything about Fiala's situation. The worst case scenario would be being forced to start shopping both of them. On the other hand, who knows? Maybe they would bring something more valuable.

I am not sure with all behind the curtain games going on. Guerin is capable to lose his job if he is not as flexible as he should be. It is like an art. Any player has his own key for opening his soul and heart. If you are not able to find it then you are not as good in this position. Stubborn character is not a helper. So far it does not look very good for the Wild image do not able to sign 2 (TWO) valuable crucial team players Kaprizov and Fiala. 

[lynxrattle]

They might be team players, but if they want to be Minnesota Wild team players they need to realise the cap situation.

[CreaseAndAssist]

Fiala didn't file for arbitration.  I just wrote about that in another thread. 

 

IMO, Gaudreau will be a center on the 4th line.  

 

I think they want Rossi to get Top 6 minutes.  They will want him to develop, season and have the opportunity in Iowa.  Same with O'Rourke, which is why they seem to want to send him back to major junior.  They want him getting those all situations play where they feel he can further develop his game instead of being a 3rd pairing player in the AHL.  

 

Boldy, I think he'll get a long look, but there is a fair shot he could start in Iowa too.  Addison is another guy they'll want to use him in all situations in Iowa and see if he does well again.  Remember, the AHL was watered down because of teams' need to have taxi squads last year.    

 

Duhaime seems to be the guy they like and feel is close to being NHL ready.  If not, why give him a one-way contract in the 2nd year of his deal?  

 

If for whatever reason, Rossi, Boldy, Duhaime, Addison start in Iowa I think they will get at least stints with the big club if not a longer look if their play warrants it.  

[Bear]

Wild filed for arbitration with Fiala

[EmptyShelf]

11 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Fiala didn't file for arbitration.  I just wrote about that in another thread. 

 

IMO, Gaudreau will be a center on the 4th line.  

 

I think they want Rossi to get Top 6 minutes.  They will want him to develop, season and have the opportunity in Iowa.  Same with O'Rourke, which is why they seem to want to send him back to major junior.  They want him getting those all situations play where they feel he can further develop his game instead of being a 3rd pairing player in the AHL.  

 

Boldy, I think he'll get a long look, but there is a fair shot he could start in Iowa too.  Addison is another guy they'll want to use him in all situations in Iowa and see if he does well again.  Remember, the AHL was watered down because of teams' need to have taxi squads last year.    

 

Duhaime seems to be the guy they like and feel is close to being NHL ready.  If not, why give him a one-way contract in the 2nd year of his deal?  

 

If for whatever reason, Rossi, Boldy, Duhaime, Addison start in Iowa I think they will get at least stints with the big club if not a longer look if their play warrants it.  

I am NOT a fan of this approach.  We are coming up on some very LEAN years due to the Boat Anchor Buyouts, and I don't want Rossi, Boldi, and Addison getting their 'feet wet' further in those years after a 'cup of coffee' this year.  I also do NOT think you develop further by playing more minutes and in PP/PK situations at inferior levels against inferior talent.  When I played (and when my sons played), playing down a level to gain 'experience' in man advantage/disadvantage situations only slowed down the 'decision clock,' as inferior players (and inferior speed or Hockey IQ) does NOT develop the speed and vision necessary at the higher level.  In fact, it exacerbates lax play and passes because you can get away with more when speed, strength and mental processing capabilities are unchallenging to the better player.  This is an 'old style' losing philosophy in my opinion.  It takes Wild top drafted players far too long to be given Top Minutes early in their careers.  As evidence of this fact, look how long it took us to replace the '$hitshow' powerless play and OT line-up (see Country Club) with the Granlunds of the world?!?  Please don't mention Kap, as he was likely the Best Player in the World that was not in the NHL (Calder validates this), and in the second best league as a pro for 6-7 years (so he effectively does not count), and neither does Fiala, having spent some years in Nash.  Lastly, Suitless was STILL on the PP late this year, while Brodin (occasional PP#2) and Dumba (occasional PP#1) scrounged for PP minutes over MANY years.  This is a STUPID trend that needs to end, as the ONLY way they (Rossi, Boldy, Addison) will be brought up is due to injury, a COVID issue, or utterly BRUTAL play by a vet (see Rask, Parise, etal).  Boldy should have been brought up for the playoffs, and it is a fricken waste of time to start him at IA again this year for a stiff like Duhaime or Gaudreau.  You have a Cap Issue that you need to straighten out now, and you have taken some solid steps.  So, unless you want to tank for a supposedly deep and talented draft next year, don't waste your time with the 1 year contract trash, when you could get your top talent the experience they need to begin to hit their stride in the Lean Cap years......

[CreaseAndAssist]

I disagree.  If you're trying to get Rossi to be a Top 6 player, you're not just going to keep him here and have him play a bottom 6 role.  Its completely different.  Rossi hasn't played any meaningful hockey in a year; plus had to sit out for months letting myocarditis subside.  To expect him to be NHL ready because he's skated through cones for a few months is crazy.  

 

Let him start in the AHL.  If he just dominates then he gives you a good reason to call him up.  But if he goes there and the pace of play is pretty fast and he's overwhelmed, then you keep him there until he gets up to speed.  He'd only be even more overwhelmed if you were to start him here right away.  

 

Boldy IMO has the best chance of the bunch to make the big squad right away because he has a little bit of AHL experience.  But I'd like to see him prove he can do it again and perhaps you keep a shorter leash on him because of it.  

 

The others...they'll get a chance eventually but I think the moves we made demonstrate they do not just want to give the kids the keys to the family car right away.  They're going to make them show they deserve to have that responsibility first.  With the cap situation as it is, they can afford to take that approach.  After that, yes...necessity will probably prompt them to give the kids more opportunities but its stupid to rush them right now.  

[Alexandron]

7 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

I am NOT a fan of this approach.  We are coming up on some very LEAN years due to the Boat Anchor Buyouts, and I don't want Rossi, Boldi, and Addison getting their 'feet wet' further in those years after a 'cup of coffee' this year.  I also do NOT think you develop further by playing more minutes and in PP/PK situations at inferior levels against inferior talent.  When I played (and when my sons played), playing down a level to gain 'experience' in man advantage/disadvantage situations only slowed down the 'decision clock,' as inferior players (and inferior speed or Hockey IQ) does NOT develop the speed and vision necessary at the higher level.  In fact, it exacerbates lax play and passes because you can get away with more when speed, strength and mental processing capabilities are unchallenging to the better player.  This is an 'old style' losing philosophy in my opinion.  It takes Wild top drafted players far too long to be given Top Minutes early in their careers.  As evidence of this fact, look how long it took us to replace the '$hitshow' powerless play and OT line-up (see Country Club) with the Granlunds of the world?!?  Please don't mention Kap, as he was likely the Best Player in the World that was not in the NHL (Calder validates this), and in the second best league as a pro for 6-7 years (so he effectively does not count), and neither does Fiala, having spent some years in Nash.  Lastly, Suitless was STILL on the PP late this year, while Brodin (occasional PP#2) and Dumba (occasional PP#1) scrounged for PP minutes over MANY years.  This is a STUPID trend that needs to end, as the ONLY way they (Rossi, Boldy, Addison) will be brought up is due to injury, a COVID issue, or utterly BRUTAL play by a vet (see Rask, Parise, etal).  Boldy should have been brought up for the playoffs, and it is a fricken waste of time to start him at IA again this year for a stiff like Duhaime or Gaudreau.  You have a Cap Issue that you need to straighten out now, and you have taken some solid steps.  So, unless you want to tank for a supposedly deep and talented draft next year, don't waste your time with the 1 year contract trash, when you could get your top talent the experience they need to begin to hit their stride in the Lean Cap years......

I  am completely agree and I am NOT a fan of this approach too. Boldy should have been brought up not only for the playoffs but for the last 10 games of the regular 2020-2021 season. Exactly same way as Montreal did with Caufield who became a rookie star during playoffs last season. 1st round picks we should see as soon as possible in the big club because they are merit that tryout right away and because they are merit a valuable experience sooner as well too. No rush mentality diminish badly their mentality to play well, especially when they have seen the best players in AHL finally do not get this chance to play in the big Wild club and run away to other clubs to receive this opportunity. Interesting, that our best goalie prospect Lindberg understood this way before getting a chance to play in Iowa and signed the contract with a more advanced club Penguins for developing prospects. Unfortunately, I have seen that tendency since Yeo era in the Wild. I also do not want to see in the big club Duhaime, Gaudreau, Merrill, 36 y.o Goligoski. It just bring only a bitter sadness. I think Kulikov(round 1;#14 overall) is a special story (special character), which I still want to see here at the beginning.

[CreaseAndAssist]

I think its fruitless to sit there and second guess the choice to keep Boldy playing in Iowa instead of with Minnesota in the playoffs.  

 

[EmptyShelf]

18 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

I disagree.  If you're trying to get Rossi to be a Top 6 player, you're not just going to keep him here and have him play a bottom 6 role.  Its completely different.  Rossi hasn't played any meaningful hockey in a year; plus had to sit out for months letting myocarditis subside.  To expect him to be NHL ready because he's skated through cones for a few months is crazy.  

 

Let him start in the AHL.  If he just dominates then he gives you a good reason to call him up.  But if he goes there and the pace of play is pretty fast and he's overwhelmed, then you keep him there until he gets up to speed.  He'd only be even more overwhelmed if you were to start him here right away.  

 

Boldy IMO has the best chance of the bunch to make the big squad right away because he has a little bit of AHL experience.  But I'd like to see him prove he can do it again and perhaps you keep a shorter leash on him because of it.  

 

The others...they'll get a chance eventually but I think the moves we made demonstrate they do not just want to give the kids the keys to the family car right away.  They're going to make them show they deserve to have that responsibility first.  With the cap situation as it is, they can afford to take that approach.  After that, yes...necessity will probably prompt them to give the kids more opportunities but its stupid to rush them right now.  

Stupid/crazy according to whose logic?  Yours?  This organization does NOT bring up players quickly enough for many years and regimes now.  They let them languish (the short Kunin stint notwithstanding).  I am not advocating bottom 6 minutes for Rossi, but rather second line in this transition year (until he proves he cannot handle it) before Cap causes lean funds in the next two years when you need him to be a big contributor.  {BTW:  The Wild Don't really have a designated Line 1 and Line 2 either}.  You also did not invalidate my point.  They do not have time to have him acclimate in a Lean Cap year or two, while some stiff eats up minutes on Line 2 this year (Rask, whom should be centering Line 4), or alternatively, the other scrub added this year (or Bjug).  If you are advocating that the Wild should be bottom dwellers with Rossi/Boldy/Addison acclimating in lean Cap years (versus this year), at least Evason (and perhaps BG) may not even survive those years, and you will have eaten 2-3 years of the Kap/Fiala/EEK/Brodin contract years in their prime.  To me, that is ignorant and not very pragmatic in the world of 'what have you done for me lately', wherein the owner is trying to make a buck or two after a year of profit destruction.

 

You also seem to have a very pessimistic attitude about rookies.  You think Boldy has a solid shot this year to make the team in place of the broken down nag that was Parise yet you would prefer to see him in the AHL for more seasoning?  It we are tanking - I agree.  If not, it is idiotic.  We have seen enough in his last year of college and limited time in the AHL to know that he is more capable than any other scrub on a one-year deal they signed to eat up space (but Boldy should be on the 'second' line versus an alternative, with some alternative on the 'second line' now down a line in terms of TOI).  Did you feel the same about Cole Caulfield drafted after Boldy (e.g. more AHL time for 'seasoning')?  Was his playoff performance just a mirage?  Take a look at the 2018 draft and review the Top 15 players taken in the draft and show me how many of them have even approached 50 games in the AHL (or exceeded 50) - I counted one player, ONE, and many have been very successful in moving straight to the NHL post Jrs. or a lower-level Euro league.  50 games in the AHL would be a certainty for both Boldy and Rossi with the Wild approach of delayed advancement of rookies over many regimes and seasons.  {I would remind you that you also scoffed when I said that Kap would be at or near a Kuznetsov or Kucherov type player.  I said I expected him to be 'between the two in year one' prior to last year (I believe I said 50-55 pts in a full 82 game year); and I explained why based upon respective performance in the KHL between those two, Kap, and Panarin.  I was right, and it wasn't luck.  I based this opinion upon facts and analysis: his KHL results, capabilities, and their respective transfer-ability to the NHL were evident within the 3 games I saw him play prior to NHL.  The one surprise for me was his innate passing vision - it did not appear in the limited viewing I had versus his debut NHL season}. 

 

Rossi is a tremendous two-way Center whom was also one of the highest scoring players in his Jr league in the past several years - and most of his contemporaries in that category go directly to the NHL with success (though there are a few exceptions, and they tend to have obvious warts).  He is no different, and should not have been available when the Wild selected him.  As far as his missing last year post his tournament play with a bum shoulder, and then a COVID related scare and heart anomaly (that may have been rightfully handled with an abundance of caution at the time, but has since tested 100% or he wouldn't be skating), I don't think it will have as significant an effect upon him many months later as you state.  He is professed to be a tremendously hard worker, whom completely re-tooled his skating prior to and after the draft of his own volition (cones-only notwithstanding this summer).  I suspect that he will rise to the challenge in camp and make the team if given a fair shot - which you do not seem open to even considering.  Boldy has proven to be plenty ready for the challenge as well.  Again, if this team showed any progressiveness in moving someone up in the first few months due to performance, I might consider it.  It simply does not happen with any regularity, and I don't see BG or Evason being that progressive (I see a trade deadline call-up at earliest).  More often than not, other teams certainly appear to be aggressive with their Top rookies (see 2018 draft), and it often pays  off, while the Wild scratch their a$$ and wait for them to 'pay their dues' while scrubs labor away.  Meanwhile, we waste a year of the Rossi/Boldy ELCs and prime years of Kap/Fiala/EEK/Brodin - how do you justify THAT?  That is the business side of hockey, and it matters a great deal.

 

Lastly, my comment pertaining to lax play when spending too much time at inferior levels is REAL.  I know many active and retired players and coaches at various levels and two agents that have confirmed the same over the years.  Top players do NOT typically continue an upward trajectory via this approach.  They actually plateau.  The players whom do typically benefit from this approach are those much less skilled and capable; wherein 'seasoning' is much more beneficial (see low first round and below). 

 

The Stutzle's and Caulfield's of the world are recent examples of accelerating success via continuous challenge - they are not McDavid or MacKinnon level talents, but they are in line with Rossi and Boldy, whom I think need to be continuously challenged at or above their skill level - not beneath it with more worthless minutes in an inferior league.  I take from your 'others' reference, that you believe Addison should spend another year in the AHL.  I ask you - what the he77 for?  To prove he 'can do it again' when you have scrubs under contract on the BIG team who cannot 'do it' at the NHL level?  Personally, I am not enamored with another mini-mite D on the Wild, but lord knows Addison won't gain much of anything out of another year in the AHL.  So, I think that only a line-up construction problem keeps him down, as it certainly shouldn't be skill or capability at this point or a 'need for more seasoning.' 

 

I am guessing we will agree to disagree, and time will tell...  

[EmptyShelf]

5 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

I think its fruitless to sit there and second guess the choice to keep Boldy playing in Iowa instead of with Minnesota in the playoffs.  

 

I think the lack of Wild scoring spark and advancing past the second round, coupled with the success of other rookies like Caulfield, actually proves that the Wild erred in NOT bringing him up in the last game or two.  If you don't agree that they were actually entertaining it (the right choice), then what the hell did they have him dress for in pre-skate?  Let me guess, the old antiquated hockey jedi mind games?  If so, this is a loser franchise mentality that will NOT serve them well going forward with present day players.  Keep in mind that these decisions are similar to those that led to the Boat Anchor contracts, continuing to play the Country Club on higher lines and PP well past their 'Sell By' dates, playing 'chicken' with Kap and his contract, making the dual cancers A's, etc, etc.....They have a LONG history of stupidity across years and regimes - I was hoping to see a silver lining in another letdown playoff run, but alas, I now have to hope they do the right thing in training camp and keep Rossi/Boldy/Addison and quit pandering to these trash veteran additions (how did you like Johansson, Bonino, etc?  I thought they were a waste of valuable TOI).

[lynxrattle]

I agree on the prospects needing to face challenge to keep on developing. If it looks like they are not having difficulties when playing in camp or Iowa, they should be put in the Wild lineup. No development without challenge.

 

But it really should not be this complicated. I guess it's the personnel politics (deals, personalities, hierarchies, etc) that makes it difficult. In the end I do think that if you're good enough, you force the organisation to give you the chance. We just haven't had good enough prospects. We'll see if Judd Brackett is able to change that.

[IllaZilla]

I could be wrong here, but it seems to me not that long ago we were complaining that the Wild's #1 draft picks were just handed roster spots: Matt Dumba, Luke Kunin, Joel Eriksson-Ek, Jonas Brodin, Mikael Granlund, James Sheppard, etc. Now it seems the Wild are content to let these guys develop at their own pace, and now we are unhappy with that. 

 

We've seen what happens when the team rushes prospects. Why not see what happens when the team lets these guys develop at their own pace. 

[Alexandron]

10 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

I think the lack of Wild scoring spark and advancing past the second round, coupled with the success of other rookies like Caulfield, actually proves that the Wild erred in NOT bringing him up in the last game or two.  If you don't agree that they were actually entertaining it (the right choice), then what the hell did they have him dress for in pre-skate?  Let me guess, the old antiquated hockey jedi mind games?  If so, this is a loser franchise mentality that will NOT serve them well going forward with present day players.  Keep in mind that these decisions are similar to those that led to the Boat Anchor contracts, continuing to play the Country Club on higher lines and PP well past their 'Sell By' dates, playing 'chicken' with Kap and his contract, making the dual cancers A's, etc, etc.....They have a LONG history of stupidity across years and regimes - I was hoping to see a silver lining in another letdown playoff run, but alas, I now have to hope they do the right thing in training camp and keep Rossi/Boldy/Addison and quit pandering to these trash veteran additions (how did you like Johansson, Bonino, etc?  I thought they were a waste of valuable TOI).

Plus to that 1 year contracts do not build an important chemistry among the players of the team. The opposite example, a Tampa team, which is gradually built a solid chemistry at least in a last 4 years with the same players in each line.

[CreaseAndAssist]

14 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

Stupid/crazy according to whose logic?  Yours?  This organization does NOT bring up players quickly enough for many years and regimes now.  They let them languish (the short Kunin stint notwithstanding).  I am not advocating bottom 6 minutes for Rossi, but rather second line in this transition year (until he proves he cannot handle it) before Cap causes lean funds in the next two years when you need him to be a big contributor.  {BTW:  The Wild Don't really have a designated Line 1 and Line 2 either}.  You also did not invalidate my point.  They do not have time to have him acclimate in a Lean Cap year or two, while some stiff eats up minutes on Line 2 this year (Rask, whom should be centering Line 4), or alternatively, the other scrub added this year (or Bjug).  If you are advocating that the Wild should be bottom dwellers with Rossi/Boldy/Addison acclimating in lean Cap years (versus this year), at least Evason (and perhaps BG) may not even survive those years, and you will have eaten 2-3 years of the Kap/Fiala/EEK/Brodin contract years in their prime.  To me, that is ignorant and not very pragmatic in the world of 'what have you done for me lately', wherein the owner is trying to make a buck or two after a year of profit destruction.

 

You also seem to have a very pessimistic attitude about rookies.  You think Boldy has a solid shot this year to make the team in place of the broken down nag that was Parise yet you would prefer to see him in the AHL for more seasoning?  It we are tanking - I agree.  If not, it is idiotic.  We have seen enough in his last year of college and limited time in the AHL to know that he is more capable than any other scrub on a one-year deal they signed to eat up space (but Boldy should be on the 'second' line versus an alternative, with some alternative on the 'second line' now down a line in terms of TOI).  Did you feel the same about Cole Caulfield drafted after Boldy (e.g. more AHL time for 'seasoning')?  Was his playoff performance just a mirage?  Take a look at the 2018 draft and review the Top 15 players taken in the draft and show me how many of them have even approached 50 games in the AHL (or exceeded 50) - I counted one player, ONE, and many have been very successful in moving straight to the NHL post Jrs. or a lower-level Euro league.  50 games in the AHL would be a certainty for both Boldy and Rossi with the Wild approach of delayed advancement of rookies over many regimes and seasons.  {I would remind you that you also scoffed when I said that Kap would be at or near a Kuznetsov or Kucherov type player.  I said I expected him to be 'between the two in year one' prior to last year (I believe I said 50-55 pts in a full 82 game year); and I explained why based upon respective performance in the KHL between those two, Kap, and Panarin.  I was right, and it wasn't luck.  I based this opinion upon facts and analysis: his KHL results, capabilities, and their respective transfer-ability to the NHL were evident within the 3 games I saw him play prior to NHL.  The one surprise for me was his innate passing vision - it did not appear in the limited viewing I had versus his debut NHL season}. 

 

Rossi is a tremendous two-way Center whom was also one of the highest scoring players in his Jr league in the past several years - and most of his contemporaries in that category go directly to the NHL with success (though there are a few exceptions, and they tend to have obvious warts).  He is no different, and should not have been available when the Wild selected him.  As far as his missing last year post his tournament play with a bum shoulder, and then a COVID related scare and heart anomaly (that may have been rightfully handled with an abundance of caution at the time, but has since tested 100% or he wouldn't be skating), I don't think it will have as significant an effect upon him many months later as you state.  He is professed to be a tremendously hard worker, whom completely re-tooled his skating prior to and after the draft of his own volition (cones-only notwithstanding this summer).  I suspect that he will rise to the challenge in camp and make the team if given a fair shot - which you do not seem open to even considering.  Boldy has proven to be plenty ready for the challenge as well.  Again, if this team showed any progressiveness in moving someone up in the first few months due to performance, I might consider it.  It simply does not happen with any regularity, and I don't see BG or Evason being that progressive (I see a trade deadline call-up at earliest).  More often than not, other teams certainly appear to be aggressive with their Top rookies (see 2018 draft), and it often pays  off, while the Wild scratch their a$$ and wait for them to 'pay their dues' while scrubs labor away.  Meanwhile, we waste a year of the Rossi/Boldy ELCs and prime years of Kap/Fiala/EEK/Brodin - how do you justify THAT?  That is the business side of hockey, and it matters a great deal.

 

Lastly, my comment pertaining to lax play when spending too much time at inferior levels is REAL.  I know many active and retired players and coaches at various levels and two agents that have confirmed the same over the years.  Top players do NOT typically continue an upward trajectory via this approach.  They actually plateau.  The players whom do typically benefit from this approach are those much less skilled and capable; wherein 'seasoning' is much more beneficial (see low first round and below). 

 

The Stutzle's and Caulfield's of the world are recent examples of accelerating success via continuous challenge - they are not McDavid or MacKinnon level talents, but they are in line with Rossi and Boldy, whom I think need to be continuously challenged at or above their skill level - not beneath it with more worthless minutes in an inferior league.  I take from your 'others' reference, that you believe Addison should spend another year in the AHL.  I ask you - what the he77 for?  To prove he 'can do it again' when you have scrubs under contract on the BIG team who cannot 'do it' at the NHL level?  Personally, I am not enamored with another mini-mite D on the Wild, but lord knows Addison won't gain much of anything out of another year in the AHL.  So, I think that only a line-up construction problem keeps him down, as it certainly shouldn't be skill or capability at this point or a 'need for more seasoning.' 

 

I am guessing we will agree to disagree, and time will tell...  

 

We don't bring them up fast enough?!  We don't let them develop.  We draft them and think they need to be in the lineup within two years.  Tim Stutzle played last year.  Cole Caufield, played last year...the entire year.  He was also the Hobey Baker Award winner and put up 30 goals in 31 games in college.  Boldy was good, but he wasn't at that level. 

 

Marco Rossi had to wait and do nothing at all for months.  He couldn't do anything at all.  He couldn't even work out.  Sure, he's doing all he can to try to make up for that lost time, but he can skate through cones and work with a coach by himself all he wants however that's not the same as playing in games.  If he had played in the Swiss national league like he had planned to, I'd feel more bullish about his readiness.  As far as Boldy goes, he joined Iowa late in the season, played some games and was good but I wouldn't say he was dominating.  I watched those games, did you?  Or did you just check the stats sheet?  

 

We're not drafting McDavid or MacKinnon.  We're not willing to be horrible to be able to draft in the Top 3.  We draft in the late teens and early 20's.  You don't get ready-for-primetime players drafting at that spot.  

 

Brodin developed in Sweden, we had a more ready player because we let him learn by playing in the pro's in Sweden.  Its not a bad thing.  He stepped in right away, he didn't spend almost any time in the AHL, why are you whining about that now?  

 

Kevin Fiala never spent any time in the minors as a member of the Wild organization.  Why does that matter one bit?  He did put his time in the minors and even Dean Evason has mentioned how valuable that experience was for Fiala.  Did he still have learning to do once he got to the NHL, but it still got him closer to being NHL ready.  

 

Joel Eriksson Ek didn't spend too much time in the AHL, and when he did it was short.  He dominated and was called back up.  He too stayed in Sweden and then played very well in the WJC's.  He developed he got better and with more and more time he improved.  

 

@IllaZillais 100% right.  We know this team is going to have to be cheap and probably not that great.  This is the time to be patient and let them season and develop at their own pace.  If they're ready, they're ready but why rush it?  

 

The Wild need to be careful and I think they will be.  We rushed players in the past, like Granlund and others and then complained how they didn't live up to the hype.  Perhaps if we gave them a chance to develop and not expect them to instantly be NHL'ers and forcing it, maybe'd they live up to those expectations.  

 

Addison had a lot of points early on, but as the season went on he kind of plateaued.  While I think he was more solid defensively than perhaps we expected the team wants him to develop into a Top 4 defenseman.  I think we all know he's kind of the logical Matt Dumba long-term replacement.  But you develop those Top 4 skills by allowing him to have the ice time and opportunity to do so; and that can happen in Iowa.  They have players in those spots in Iowa.  So would you rather have him become Dumba / Spurgeon level with some development; or just another Brad Hunt while he's used on the 3rd pairing?    

 

They're signing players to 1-year contracts because of their cap situation, its not that tough to understand.  I think I'd like to see how Boldy and Rossi develop some chemistry in Iowa and then bring it to Minnesota either later in the season or the next year.  IMO, that could be time well spent.  

 

 

[Alexandron]

LIG, I understand that , but still it does not seemed right what I do see from the Wild organization regarding our prospects in developing for the NHL level. Junk pieces they bringing in right away in NHL and using them persistently, but they boiling badly well progressing AHL prospects for years without any real tryout in NHL. And our prospects understood this right away. Lindberg understood this even before getting to Iowa. They do not see any future here because this is a depressing method of selection for most of them. I am not talking about rush or not to rush way. I am talking about to give a nice tryout in NHL.  We discussed already multiple times at the old forum and at this forum we should give to promising prospects at least 50 NHL games divided for 2-3 seasons before to make  the right decision to keep or not to keep this player. And what I do see ? The best AHL and KHL defenseman Menell was kicked out in the butt for nothing who had only 4 NHL games here by playing 4 seasons in AHL for the Iowa team and 1 season in KHL. Is that the right "rush"? I do not need an explanation is easier or no easier to place goals or assists in AHL, OHL,NCAA. 4 NHL games only? The best AHL forward Gerald Mayhew  who progressed extremely well too received only 17 NHL games in 5 seasons here (who had in 228 played games in AHL 178 points(97 goals;81 assists)). He was kicked in the butt also out of the organization for nothing. It is not the right way of doing that. And other prospects Anas and Sokolov received zero games in NHL after playing plenty of games in Iowa. Who knows, maybe they will do well in the Wild team even better than in AHL? How we will know that without a tryout? 

[CreaseAndAssist]

Or maybe, some of them were not really NHL material.  Louie Belpedio put in a lot of time but did he really dominate?  You can do well at the AHL level and still not really be a fit for the NHL.  Mayhew is a good example of that.  As much of a go-to scoring machine as he was for Iowa, it wasn't the same at the NHL level.  Goaltenders are better and his ice in the scoring areas is a lot tougher to come by.  

 

But it doesn't mean we have to just throw Rossi, Boldy and Addison in the NHL and hope they swim.  They can be eased into it, they can develop chemistry with one another in the AHL and then bring that with them to the NHL.  

 

Iowa was a veteran dominated team, now more drafted players are getting spots on the team.  50-games to find out whether they work or not is a lot.  Yet with the cap crunch that might happen.  But still, developing in the minors is not a bad thing.  

[Icechipper]

Sheppard was rushed. Thought maybe he left his skate guards on but the fact was that the big galoot could not catch a pass at speed without tripping over his size 18 skates....big scorer in junior, not ready for prime time....

Edited August 5, 2021 by Icechipper