Confirmed: Ellis traded to Flyers for Myers / Patrick

[Cheesesteak]

NOOOOOOOOOO.....ANOTHER GINGER! 

 

This just crystallizes the fact that Voracek is a goner...this dude is his clone, can't have too many. haha 

[jammer2]

11 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

I forgot about this fact. Cheers buddy, hope your summer is going well.

Ryans slapper is upper tier, but it used to be approx 10% harder. He broke his hand in his 2nd year with the Spits and never recovered that full zing he once had. Lots of times the goalies did not move on his bombs from the point. Didn't affect his point totals though, he had 101 pts in his last year, sick total, even for a back to back Championship team. 

[jammer2]

6 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Ryans slapper is upper tier, but it used to be approx 10% harder. He broke his hand in his 2nd year with the Spits and never recovered that full zing he once had. Lots of times the goalies did not move on his bombs from the point. Didn't affect his point totals though, he had 101 pts in his last year, sick total, even for a back to back Championship team. 

 Summer is going great, thanks for asking. Great to read you guys again, gone for to long!!

 

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, Samifan said:

If Francis/Hakstol don’t take him, I fear we will be seeing another season of the lazy, turnover prone, bad attitude having, homeless looking f**k. 
 

I just can’t see any team trading for him and his horrible contract. 

If your coffee is too bitter, add some sweetener

 

Jake is rancid, so it may take alot of sugar to make it palletable

[CoachX]

5 hours ago, ruxpin said:

From sitting on them, right?  (NTTAWWT)

Eat $hit! 

[OccamsRazor]

51 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

but it used to be approx 10% harder.

 

You know they make a pill for that. It's ok. You're not alone it happens to more men than you think.

 

Ask @CoachX it's why he is always so cranky....not really he is regardless.

 

 

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

If Patrick dies

 

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

Well NAK still has life. 

 

Hockey is life and death for me, too!

[LegionOfDoom]

So I wonder what Ellis' Jersey number will be now that he's a Flyer?

And will he get an A on it.

[CoachX]

It will be 44.... its Kimo 2.0

[Howie58]

Last week, Bill Guerin erased some of Fletcher's handiwork.  Yesterday, Fletcher undid some of his predecessors' messes.  We wouldn't have needed this trade if our picks panned out as we hoped.  Now we have to undue some overly long contracts from the past.

 

BTW, Ghost as buyout isn't bad.  I have to think that possibility is in the future if he isn't picked up or traded.  Just one man's thought.

[Zzeke]

In the next few days - 

 

What are the pros and cons of this proposed trade deal between GMs Fletcher and Francis - 

 

Flyers get:
  - Seattle's committment to select Voracek (8.25M Cap Relief for Flyers)
  - Veteran Goaltender selected by Seattle in Expansion (see list below**) 
      (a Flyers #2 Goalie to mentor Hart and who is a good part-time back-up)
  
Seattle gets:
   - Ghost (4M Cap Relief for Flyers)
  -  Prospect off Flyers provided list (see list below*)

 

*Seattle selects one young player from this list:

Carsen Twarynski
Isaac Ratcliffe 
Connor Bunnaman
German Rubtsov 
Maksim Sushko
David Kase

 

Goaltenders - Seattle will perhaps select these 3 for their organization:

Ben Bishop
Vitek Vanecek
Kaapo Kahkanen

 

**Might Fletcher want Seattle to also select one of these to then send to our Flyers? 

(Yes, contract status and Cap Hit are important considerations in addition to being a mentor to Hart and a good part-time back-up.)

 

Jaroslav Halak (G)
Tuukka Rask (G)
Carter Hutton (G)
Devan Dubnyk (G)
Jonathan Bernier (G)
Mike Smith (G)
Jonathan Quick (G)
Pekka Rinne (G)
Cory Schneider (G)
Braden Holtby (G)
Craig Anderson (G)

 

With the 12.25M Cap Space gained + the current 9.3M Cap Space (total 21.5M), Fletcher can sign:

- Hart (RFA)
- Sanheim (RFA)
- Morin (UFA)
- Goaltender #2 
- a UFA 2nd pair RH defencman from this list:

 

- Adam Larsson, age 28, 6'-3", 208, RH/RD, UFA, currently 2nd pairing, probable Cap Hit 4.5M
- David Savard, age 30, 6'-2", 233, RH/RD, UFA, probable Cap Hit 5.5M, strong in D-zone, tough, 2nd pairing
- Cody Ceci, age 27, 6'-2", 210, RH/RD, UFA, currently 2nd pairing, probable Cap Hit 6M
- Brandon Montour, age 27, 6'-0", 194, RH/RD, UFA, current Cap Hit 3.85M, shot-blocker, slick puck-mover, depth defenceman
 
This trade - What don't you like? What do you like? How would you tweak it?

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Zzeke

[flyercanuck]

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I seen reports that if Seattle doesn't take Tarasenko or Jake you can see these two teams trying to work out a trade hopefully to give Giroux a left hand sniper for the power play.

 

I would link it but I can't remember who said and I have been looking for it but I'm at work.

 

So we'll see. There is still hope and it was even said it could go down even if they take JVR or Ghost if Jake is left.

 

I think management has had enough and his media outburst annoyed a few of the brass.

 

If it's one for one, or we gotta throw in something minor, I'm in. But I hope we're not trading valuable assets for a guy whos' scored THREE more goals than Nolan Patrick did over the last two seasons, at 10 times the price tag, with Patrick not even playing a game one of those seasons. Voracek has scored 200% more goals than Tarasenko over the past 2 seasons, and he sucks as a goal scorer.

This isn't Stanley Cup Tarasenko, it's broken down Tarasenko. The only thing appealing to me is his contract ends after next season.

Edited July 19, 2021 by flyercanuck

[flyercanuck]

6 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Last week, Bill Guerin erased some of Fletcher's handiwork.  Yesterday, Fletcher undid some of his predecessors' messes.  We wouldn't have needed this trade if our picks panned out as we hoped.  Now we have to undue some overly long contracts from the past.

 

BTW, Ghost as buyout isn't bad.  I have to think that possibility is in the future if he isn't picked up or traded.  Just one man's thought.

 

Huge difference between having to buy out two horrible contracts that leave your franchise in cap hell for 4 years, and trading away two young players (one that came free as far as draft picks go) that could have easily brought back more picks/prospects. We got a good player...Minnesota got screwed.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

If it's one for one, or we gotta throw in something minor, I'm in. But I hope we're not trading valuable assets for a guy whos' scored THREE more goals than Nolan Patrick did over the last two seasons, at 10 times the price tag, with Patrick not even playing a game one of those seasons. Voracek has scored 200% more goals than Tarasenko over the past 2 seasons, and he sucks as a goal scorer.

This isn't Stanley Cup Tarasenko, it's broken down Tarasenko. The only thing appealing to me is his contract ends after next season.

 

From what I read it was one for one.

 

But as far as a comparison to Patrick we should be ok. A lot of the reason he wants to be traded he upset at the Blues and their medical guy who botched two of his previous shoulder surgeries causing him to need a third. Wait till he see the Flyers medical staff!!!

 

But if he can return to his form when they won the Cup 33 goals 68 points in the regular season and 11 goals 17 points in the post season I will take it.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

8 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Last week, Bill Guerin erased some of Fletcher's handiwork.  Yesterday, Fletcher undid some of his predecessors' messes.  We wouldn't have needed this trade if our picks panned out as we hoped.  Now we have to undue some overly long contracts from the past.

 

BTW, Ghost as buyout isn't bad.  I have to think that possibility is in the future if he isn't picked up or traded.  Just one man's thought.

 

I think I would rather pick up some of his salary than buy him out.

 

However I haven't looked at the numbers for a buy out to say for sure.

 

But seems to me once all the dust settles and lot of all the free agents have been signed it seems like Ghost will have some value to some team.

 

Maybe.

 

I expect Chuckles to do his due diligence on it.

[Howie58]

5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Huge difference between having to buy out two horrible contracts that leave your franchise in cap hell for 4 years, and trading away two young players (one that came free as far as draft picks go) that could have easily brought back more picks/prospects. We got a good player...Minnesota got screwed.

Dear FC:

 

I agree--my thinking is at the 30,000 foot level.  We've been hearing/discussing for the last half decade that our defense would be a cornerstone.  Yeah. One would have thought we'd have a first-class D at this juncture. Instead, we have to rebuild.  

 

As I've said here before, I agree with Ron Wilson's view that contracts over 5 years are a noose and should be avoided.  All GMs need to think what they are doing in that sphere.  

 

Peace,

H

[mojo1917]

11 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

We've been hearing/discussing for the last half decade that our defense would be a cornerstone.  Yeah. One would have thought we'd have a first-class D at this juncture. Instead, we have to rebuild.

Howie,

I don't buy the assessment that all the D-picks are busts, I see it very differently.

 

In one year even after signing a second defensive player, 2/3s of the defense will be home grown. 

When has that happened before?

Added value; the parts we thought would be middle tier guys actually went towards acquiring some top tier guys. (Myers for Ellis) & if it comes to fruition Hagg as a part of a deal to bring Tarasenko to town. 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by mojo1917

[CoachX]

I'm reading that jake and a pick ( 2nd round prolly) to Seattle, after they take tarasenko. Then Seattle will pick hagg from expansion list.

 

Not sure why they would take hagg over Ghost, but "ok"

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

5 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I'm reading that jake and a pick ( 2nd round prolly) to Seattle, after they take tarasenko. Then Seattle will pick hagg from expansion list.

 

Not sure why they would take hagg over Ghost, but "ok"

Welcome to the forum!  Always good to see new posters around here! 

 

This topic is being discussed in 2 other threads already!

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I'm reading that jake and a pick ( 2nd round prolly) to Seattle, after they take tarasenko. Then Seattle will pick hagg from expansion list.

 

Not sure why they would take hagg over Ghost, but "ok"

 

Hak and Ghost did not see eye to eye.

 

I know he said the right things in the media about Hak but Hak and Ghost were not on good terms.

 

Hak was always pissed it seemed when Ghost would pinch and the forwards wouldn't rotate back to cover his spot.

 

Like that I'd Ghost's fault I mean sure sometimes Ghost picked ill advised times to pinch and many D men do but he was still young and IMHO was the one who started getting in Ghost's head for that.

 

He basically neutered him, sure some want agree with that but he hasn't been the same since always seems to second guess himself.

 

So yes I can see Hagg instead of Ghost.

 

 

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't buy the assessment that all the D-picks are busts

 

Provorov is certainly looking like a 7th overall pick.

 

They've opted to protect Sanheim, who was a 17th overall.

 

Morin was a reach, but has had injury issues and has looked serviceable.

 

Hagg (2nd) has played 236 NHL games.

 

Then there's Gotstobehere (3rd).

 

Those are the top 3 round picks (along with Friedman) for defence for the Flyers from 2012-2017. I don't think we can reasonably call any of them "busts" (Friedman might be an exception but he's no longer here).

 

Myers was undrafted and just returned Ellis.

 

I don't know if there's another team in the league with that sort of drafting and development record in that time period.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

I don't know if there's another team in the league with that sort of drafting and development record in that time period.

 

I think the Canes have done well.

 

Not sure how you're measuring it.

 

Hanifin

Fleury

Bean

Pesce

Slavin

 

At least give them a run for their money.

 

I would love to have Pesce and Slavin for sure.

 

I'd take Hanifin over Hagg.

 

Just off the top of my head but I would call the Flyer D busts at all.

 

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor @radoran @Howie58

 

Busts is a too harsh a term. 

 

I found Howie's assessment of the defense harsh and not entirely accurate.

[GratefulFlyers]

Sorry if I'm echoing everyone (or no one) but I skipped reading most of the thread.

 

I don't like this trade at all. Ryan Ellis is tough and experienced but he's 30 years old and he has what ... 6 more years at $6.25 mil per. That alone should've been a hard pass. Not the $ the 6 years. Ellis, from what I've seen of him, can play the game, no question he's a good D-man. But to gain a 30-year old and give up a 24-year old...considering where the Flyers are now in the timeline toward winning the Cup...this was a stupid move.

 

Giving up Myers should've been a hard no. So the guy had a crappy year name a Flyer who didn't. Joel Farrabee, period. Myers is 24, big and strong, skates very well and he can shoot the puck. The rest can be taught and drilled.

 

The last place Fletcher should've looked for tradable assets was the young D men. Who's next Sanheim with Frost and who-know-who-else PLUS a 1R for Seth Jones?

 

It just kills me trading away a 24-year old D-man with so much promise. It's just like the Flyers too, trade away a young guy who had a bad season for a proven veteran who is soon to be out of gas.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

Dear FC:

 

I agree--my thinking is at the 30,000 foot level.  We've been hearing/discussing for the last half decade that our defense would be a cornerstone.  Yeah. One would have thought we'd have a first-class D at this juncture. Instead, we have to rebuild.  

 

As I've said here before, I agree with Ron Wilson's view that contracts over 5 years are a noose and should be avoided.  All GMs need to think what they are doing in that sphere.  

 

Peace,

H

 

 To your first point Howie, I think the D needs (needed?) a tweak, not rebuilt. 

 

 To your second, totally agree.