Gostisbehere Traded To Arizona

[jammer2]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

The scary part is that Ghost, who had 2 years at 4.5 million cost us a #2 and  7 to get rid of. So to dump Jake at 3 years and 8.5 million is gonna cost at least a first round pick, probably more. So if we cannot dump Jake, JVR or Hayes, we will not be able to re-sign G, which is probably a good thing. We also have to prepare for Coots wanting 8 million a year. If we could get a couple of really good young players , maybe we have to trade Coots since we are stuck with three big contracts.

It really does seem helpless, huh? Quite a pickle we are in...and we are not the worst off by a long shot. In this kind of environment, if teams that have a ton of cap space dont come out contenders, its gross mismanagement. 

  Seems like Arizona and the NYI set the going rate, a few years of an underproducing, often injured Andrew Ladd at 5 mill+ was 2nd rounders...just wow. My estimates getting rid of Jake...are  1st, 2nd and Frost...or something very close. Much more if your dealing with the tight purse strings in Krackenville. 

 

Best I can see for Giroux is a 1 year deal at 2.5-3 mill. If that is not sufficient, bye. M

[flyercanuck]

12 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

It really does seem helpless, huh? Quite a pickle we are in...and we are not the worst off by a long shot. In this kind of environment, if teams that have a ton of cap space dont come out contenders, its gross mismanagement. 

  Seems like Arizona and the NYI set the going rate, a few years of an underproducing, often injured Andrew Ladd at 5 mill+ was 2nd rounders...just wow. My estimates getting rid of Jake...are  1st, 2nd and Frost...or something very close. Much more if your dealing with the tight purse strings in Krackenville. 

 

 

 

 Ok, one team lost to the cup champs in game 7 of the conference final and traded a 35 year old who rarely played for the last 3 years with 2 years on a 5.5 mil contract for capspace....that makes sense to me. They think they're a tweak away from another shot...take it!

 

 The other team played the most uninspired hockey I've seen in a long time and traded a 4.5 mil 28 year old who scored 20 points in 41 games for capspace to....go for it? Another Hayes-like contract perhaps? Yay. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by flyercanuck

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

Name a significant waiver claim from those made on "a weekly basis".

 

I'll wait.

 

Lets clarify first. You stated GMs don't make waiver claims. Then, you moved the bar tossing in the word "significant"...much like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown ....

 

A list of waiver wire claims in the last few months of the regular season...Sami Vatanen, a fine top 4 d man, Victor Mete, young budding star for the Sens, Anton Forberg...some compare him to a young Hasek...

 

Your wait is over fine Sir!!

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/hockey-player-news/

Edited July 23, 2021 by jammer2

[jammer2]

27 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Ok, one team lost to the cup champs in game 7 of the conference final and traded a 35 year old who rarely played for the last 3 years with 2 years on a 5.5 mil contract for capspace....that makes sense to me. They think they're a tweak away from another shot...take it!

 

 The other team played the most uninspired hockey I've seen in a long time and traded a 4.5 mil 28 year old who scored 20 points in 41 games for capspace to....go for it? Another Hayes-like contract perhaps? Yay. 

Circumstances are different, but the teams holding the cards, or in this case cap space are not gonna care about extenuating circumstances ....the price is the price, which is the point I was making. Agreed though, Flyers are not one or two moves away. Perhaps the smart play was to keep Ghost, hope he plays well enough you can get a real return, or at least not get raped and pillaged....lol. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Circumstances are different, but the teams holding the cards, or in this case cap space are not gonna care about extenuating circumstances ....the price is the price, which is the point I was making. Agreed though, Flyers are not one or two moves away. Perhaps the smart play was to keep Ghost, hope he plays well enough you can get a real return, or at least not get raped and pillaged....lol. 

 

What is amazing no one wanted Ghost with two year at 4.5 per year.

 

But Seattle chose to give Oleksiak 5 year for 4.6 mill per year...they must be already smoking that good Seattle mean green to ink that deal.

 

All that for a 5th or 6th D man at best. Just unreal.

[OccamsRazor]

The most embarrassing part is Braun cost a 2nd and 3rd.

 

And it almost cost more than that to move Ghost....that stings.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

I think it was a knee-jerk reaction trade by Fletcher.  Ghost had more value and could’ve brought back a player or pick(s) from a different team.  Stupid move.

We’ll see what Fletcher does next with the cap space.  I may be pessimistic, but I think he will NOT get the player he is looking for with the cap space.  

[CoachX]

12 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

I am laughing at every mfer on this board 

Good for you. How 'bout you find a mirror. There should be enough there to keep you busy

[mojo1917]

Ghost is going to go to the desert and he'll play top 4 minutes. He'll be what he is a sometimes dynamic offensive-minded defensman who can change momentum with his play. He'll contribute to whatever that team does. He's a solid citizen and pretty good hockey player. I hope he does well, when he was here and healthy he was fun to watch. 

 

I see @SCFlyguy cackling about how he's so smart and all the players suck and maybe some other obnoxious takes too.  I hope he's enjoying stopped clock day. It took a global pandemic coupled with an economic crisis but he's right Ghost didn't have value. Certainly not the value I thought he would have.

 

I view this trade as gaining some space so the team can sign Hart, Sanheim and add a back up goaltender. It gives Chuck more leverage dealing with other GMs in other trade scenarios because he's not strapped over the barrel of not being able to ice a team with actual NHL players. 

 

I hope some more fun style Ellis stuff happens. Ron Francis angling for Connor Bedard was a bad look Wednesday night. And definitely deflated the enthusiasm I had for the off season. 

 I hate to see Brandon Tanev wasted on a team that will lose 3-1 45 times this coming year.  I don't know where the goals will come from- anyone have an idea?

[Podein25]

56 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

I think it was a knee-jerk reaction trade by Fletcher.  Ghost had more value and could’ve brought back a player or pick(s) from a different team.  Stupid move.

We’ll see what Fletcher does next with the cap space.  I may be pessimistic, but I think he will NOT get the player he is looking for with the cap space.  

 

I agree, but you and I are in the minority it appears. People keep raising the point that he was put on waivers and people passed, but that's a different context in which teams often have very limited room to maneuver. The truth is Ghost has a unique set of hockey skills that have intrinsic value. What the market, at any given point, values is a different thing. And it's what matters sadly.  

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Podein25

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

 

I've been saying this for a while. 

You've been saying everything for awhile. As smart as you are,  I find it interesting that you allow yourself to communicate with peasants like us. You're clearly a legend. If one doesn't believe it, all we have to do is ask you

 

I'm anxiously waiting for the Flyers to hire you as GM. I cannot belive they havent done it before now

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

I think it was a knee-jerk reaction trade by Fletcher.  Ghost had more value and could’ve brought back a player or pick(s) from a different team.  Stupid move.

 

You're assuming this but we have no proof.

 

And sure the knee jerk reaction was maybe that he called around and found out other teams wanted York or the 13th pick so yeah he doubled back and took the best offer he could find which was the Yotes offer.

 

Sure i'm not ecstatic with it i get that, but if he wanted to move on from (which he has tried for free and no one wanted him) he took the best roster at the time.

 

He wanted to free up 4.5 mill to use elsewhere. Well Ghost had to go to the best bid.

 

Could he have waited it out who knows maybe....but maybe he felt if he didn't move when he did then he could be stuck again and maybe even picking up salary to move on from him then.

 

Now they have 13.8 mill to spend.

 

Giroux - Coots - Konecny

Farabee - Hayes - Allison

JVR - Laughton - Voracek

Lindblom - Frost - NAK

 

Provorov - Ellis

Sanheim - ??????

Hagg - Braun

Morin

 

Hart

?????

 

At this point that isn't a huge improvement but there is work to be done.

 

But i know Chuckles isn't done. With 13.8 mill to resign two RFAs and #4 and a backup goalie.

 

Guess we'll see how the draft goes first. In Chuckles we trust.

 

[Podein25]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

Provorov - Ellis

Sanheim - ??????

Hagg - Braun

Morin

 

This, um, needs some work.

[CoachX]

Speaking of Ghosts value, it was ZERO here in Philly. There was no place for him, so they had to get SOMETHING. That appears to be the rub. We think he was worth more. The rest of the GMs in the league disagreed, hence him be passed over on waivers. The return for him, assuming any players were offered, was obviously less in value than the cap space.  Personally, I think there is a plan for that space, and a bigger need for the team. 

 

Considering the young players pushing, and the possibility of another signing, AND the need to re-sign existing players,  this was a necessary move 

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

 

This, um, needs some work.

 

Sure Captain obvious just laying out where they are is all. And well that is what you're looking as we speak.

 

I mean honestly Morin doesn't have a contract so i am hoping he is resigned. But yes we have seen Hagg and Braun together for more games than we like so we know the brass isn't happy with this.

 

However this is a fluid situation right now and we know Chuckles has it still in the shop reworking it.

 

But as of right now he has a draft to conduct first maybe. I seen a mock draft that has the Flyers maybe landing Cole Sillinger and well that is great news if that goes down. We needs some good news.

[CoachX]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

We needs some good news

Since you asked, I'm going to the lake again next week. Jetskis are a good time

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

Personally, I think there is a plan for that space, and a bigger need for the team. 

 

Yes that #4 hole on the second pair is a good start and i am sure priority #1 for him right now.

 

The brass has come around to realizing how important defensemen are to the success of their team.

 

Build from the net out. So to me the net is in good shape with Hart check- so now build around him and protect him and the rest will be a easier task i think - find forwards who are willling to back check and fore check.

 

That is what made Tampa so successful.

 

Everyone was skating and doing what needed to be done regardless of rank or salary. The is no magic recipe. But i give Chuckles props by identifying the issues and calling it out - Jake Voracek - is part of the problem and he is doing what he can to remove him. It's all we can ask right now.

[CoachX]

[jammer2]

19 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Speaking of Ghosts value, it was ZERO here in Philly. There was no place for him, so they had to get SOMETHING. That appears to be the rub. We think he was worth more. The rest of the GMs in the league disagreed, hence him be passed over on waivers. The return for him, assuming any players were offered, was obviously less in value than the cap space.  Personally, I think there is a plan for that space, and a bigger need for the team. 

 

Considering the young players pushing, and the possibility of another signing, AND the need to re-sign existing players,  this was a necessary move 

Perfect summary of the context of this deal.

[radoran]

55 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Lets clarify first. You stated GMs don't make waiver claims. Then, you moved the bar tossing in the word "significant"...much like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown ....

 

My friend, the comparison was to someone taking a $4.5M player like Gotstobethere. That's where "significant" came from.

 

Sami Vantanen had six points in 30 games. Not 20 in 41. Not sixth in the league at his position in goals.

 

Look at the list your provided:

Sami Vantanen

Victor Mete

Drake Caggiula

Travis Boyd
Anton Forsberg
Jimmy Vesey
Alex Stalock
Jared Tinordi
Mark Friedman
Troy Grosenick (twice in a row)

Anton Forsberg (again)
Luca Sbisa (remember him?)
Eric Comrie (we had no interest in Comrie)

Rudolfs Balcers
Anton Forsberg (again)
Noah Juulsen
Gustav Forsling
Christian Djoos

 

That's the whole list from 2021. You probably recognize some of those names better than I, but that's a whole lot of not very much. Certainly not a 40-point defenceman, sixth in the league at his position in goals.

 

The Old Boys Club is alive and well in the NHL and you know it

 

Nobody took Gotstobethere "for nothing" because:

a) they didn't want the blowback from it

b) they didn't want to take the cap hit especially when

c) they knew they could get paid to take him

 

No goalposts moved. Goal scored.

[jammer2]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

My friend, the comparison was to someone taking a $4.5M player like Gotstobethere. That's where "significant" came from.

 

Sami Vantanen had six points in 30 games. Not 20 in 41. Not sixth in the league at his position in goals.

 

Look at the list your provided:

Sami Vantanen

Victor Mete

Drake Caggiula

Travis Boyd
Anton Forsberg
Jimmy Vesey
Alex Stalock
Jared Tinordi
Mark Friedman
Troy Grosenick (twice in a row)

Anton Forsberg (again)
Luca Sbisa (remember him?)
Eric Comrie (we had no interest in Comrie)

Rudolfs Balcers
Anton Forsberg (again)
Noah Juulsen
Gustav Forsling
Christian Djoos

 

That's the whole list from 2021. You probably recognize some of those names better than I, but that's a whole lot of not very much. Certainly not a 40-point defenceman, sixth in the league at his position in goals.

 

The Old Boys Club is alive and well in the NHL and you know it

 

Nobody took Gotstobethere "for nothing" because:

a) they didn't want the blowback from it

b) they didn't want to take the cap hit especially when

c) they knew they could get paid to take him

 

No goalposts moved. Goal scored.

Was actually expecting a much longer response...slipping in old age?? LOL...Dont think it had anything to do with blowback. Combo of injuries, lack of cap space and Ghosts propensity for ignoring the defensive zone ...all contributing factors in Ghost not getting claimed. We can agree to disagree...yes?

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Combo of injuries, lack of cap space and Ghosts propensity for ignoring the defensive zone ...all contributing factors in Ghost not getting claimed. We can agree to disagree...yes?

 

A longer response wasn't needed

 

And we don't really disagree - there were many factors in why Gotstobethere wasn't claimed and very little of it had to do with the lazy analysis of "nobody wanted him."

 

Players of his caliber (and, for the record, I'm not a Ghost fanboy) aren't put on waivers very often and they are claimed even more rarely.

 

I mean, he's no Anton Forsberg or Troy Grosenick.

 

I patiently await the use of the $4.5M in cap space and look forward to "competing for the Stanley Cup" next season.

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

6 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Was actually expecting a much longer response...slipping in old age?? LOL...Dont think it had anything to do with blowback. Combo of injuries, lack of cap space and Ghosts propensity for ignoring the defensive zone ...all contributing factors in Ghost not getting claimed. We can agree to disagree...yes?

This was the biggest factor, IMHO.  Most teams could not afford to make the waiver claim.  And no, I don’t have the ability to go back in time to check teams’ cap space.

[Podein25]

36 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Sure Captain obvious

 

Don't you go pissing me off, or I will go to your house and put that beer truck back on your head (empty of course).

[flyer4ever]

Flyers need to "Kucherov" Giroux and Voracek. Give them both phantom hip surgery in training camp. LTIR them until the trade deadline 3 years from now when the cap freeze is over. Mr Fletcher is in a serious pickle right now. Implosion is the only way out, 5 years ago.