CoachX Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 38 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: grabbed a cop's ass... When did this become a bad thing? Happens to me all the time, usually when I'm trying to get my head out 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Pivoting away from cop asses for a moment, who's seen Sam Carchidi and Claude's twitter "exchange" ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 51 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Pivoting away from cop asses for a moment, who's seen Sam Carchidi and Claude's twitter "exchange" ? saw it last night and thought it was fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I understand those criticisms but "hasn't produced" requires push back. I don't believe "hasn't produced" is in a post. I don't consider him a top 20 player in the league any more than Voracek is despite them both being in the top 20 of points on that list. To wit, he's 23rd in points per 60 minutes. He doesn't break Team Canada's top 12 when all players are available. We've plowed this ground before. I'm not here to **** on the player. We've covered the issues forced upon him by incompetent management who never got the supporting cast (I think he's a great "supporting cast" player more than a great, dominant superstar and c/should have been an effective playmaking wing with an A on a team that didn't get blown up in 2011). He just happens to be the face of the franchise for the worst decade in the team's history. I don't BLAME him solely for that, I am more than willing to give him "his shot" next year, and I expect them to re-sign him unless the squad completely ****'s the bed. But "he's been the best player on a terrible team" coupled with an egregious total collapse last season (I know the "reasons" for it) isn't maybe the winning argument for him being "one of the league's top players." Not sure many outside of the Flyers' fan base puts him in that company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 We can only hope G is traded at the deadline and we can get a decent return.. I really don't see how you can re-sign him, even if you wanted to. We have a number of older players with $5-8 million contracts, we also have to plan on Coots demanding $8 million next year and probably re-signing Ristoso . With the cap, it's hard enough already to try and improve the team going forward , so G has to go. If we are mediocre next year, I would certainly entertain offers for Coots too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 @radoran I quoted the "hasn't produced" portion from your post. I paraphrased it. The meaning is unchanged. You cited production as a reason you don't view him as a top guy. There are 858 points and hundreds of dudes who haven't scored that many during the same period of time that gouge a hole in that theory. Don't pee on my leg and tell me something else is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, mojo1917 said: @radoran I quoted the "hasn't produced" portion from your post. I paraphrased it. The meaning is unchanged. You cited production as a reason you don't view him as a top guy. There are 858 points and hundreds of dudes who haven't scored that many during the same period of time that gouge a hole in that theory. Don't pee on my leg and tell me something else is happening. Dany Heatly is #10 overall points and #18 in points per 60 minutes for the 2000s. Is Dany Heatley on your top 20 list of players in the 2000s? I'm not pissing on your leg. And ignoring the rest of my post doesn't speak well for your assertion. You think Giroux is an undoubted superstar. That's fine. I disagree. He still has the chance to prove it. I'm just inviting him to stop trying to dunk on Sam Carchidi on Twitter and go ahead and DO IT. Until then he has accomplished precious little in his tenure as captain of the Flyers. And that's not an opinion. That'd the cold hard truth. Edited July 26, 2021 by radoran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, radoran said: Is Dany Heatley on your top 20 list of players in the 2000s? The decade or century, because he was definitely a thing in the aughts? (00-10) not the century for sure. He also killed a guy so maybe his infamy added to his Q factor. 14 hours ago, radoran said: You think Giroux is an undoubted superstar. That's fine. I disagree. I don't, is this a case of semantics ? People don't come to the rink to see Giroux play like they did Mario or Gretzky. I don't know that there are superstars in the league right now that transcend the game. McDavid ? Crosby? MacKinnon? Kane ? I think the closest to an actual superstar would be Crosby because of the heel energy he creates. But I don't know that anyone is coming out to watch McDavid. Claude Giroux is a notch below those guys, but he's still a top player. He's been the best player on the Flyers for a long time and has only recently slid down the depth chart behind Couturier. I didn't ignore the rest of your post, there wasn't a need to comment on it, mostly because I agree with those thoughts. Giroux has scored lot of points, you said his production wasn't equal to the top players when it is. It's numbers, it's not winning, it's not leadership, it's tangible and even though these points were accrued on middling teams they still count. Edited July 26, 2021 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 7 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I think the closest to an actual superstar would be Crosby because of the heel energy he creates. But I don't know that anyone is coming out to watch McDavid. Claude Giroux is a notch below those guys, but he's still a top player. I don't know what "heel energy" is...typo? McDavid has passed Crosby as the best player in the league/planet. You don't know that anyones coming out to watch McDavid? Have you seen him play? The kid is electrifying. Crosby is/was a great player, but he wasn't anywhere near as exciting to watch. I'm not trying to take anything away from what he's accomplished, he just played a different style. McDavid plays at a gear higher than anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkscrewy Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 30 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I don't know what "heel energy" is...typo? McDavid has passed Crosby as the best player in the league/planet. You don't know that anyones coming out to watch McDavid? Have you seen him play? The kid is electrifying. Crosby is/was a great player, but he wasn't anywhere near as exciting to watch. I'm not trying to take anything away from what he's accomplished, he just played a different style. McDavid plays at a gear higher than anyone. you may need to watch more pro wrestling to understand "the heel" archetype. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 36 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I don't know what "heel energy" is...typo? Pro Wrestling reference: heel = bad guy, villain. Thank you Vince McMahon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: You don't know that anyones coming out to watch McDavid? Have you seen him play? The kid is electrifying. Crosby is/was a great player, but he wasn't anywhere near as exciting to watch. Alright put it this way, does McDavid sell anything, even the league in which he plays, in America? Crosby sold Reebok now sells adidas and gatorade. To me a superstar transcends the sport. I'm not here saying McDavid isn't great at hockey or isn't exciting. The Oil haven't even been a featured team on many national broadcasts in my market. 97 might be the league's best player but he isn't a household name to the casual sports fan. Does that make sense to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 McDavid actually has a penis. Not that I have first hand knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 9 hours ago, mkscrewy said: you may need to watch more pro wrestling to understand "the heel" archetype. FIFY...and no thanks. I'll live in ignorant bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 8 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Alright put it this way, does McDavid sell anything, even the league in which he plays, in America? Crosby sold Reebok now sells adidas and gatorade. To me a superstar transcends the sport. I'm not here saying McDavid isn't great at hockey or isn't exciting. The Oil haven't even been a featured team on many national broadcasts in my market. 97 might be the league's best player but he isn't a household name to the casual sports fan. Does that make sense to you? I guess different countries...the guy is already a legend here...but I can't name a single NASCAR driver. McDavid comes in at #2 for hockey endorsements. He had a CCM contract before he was drafted. Still does. Adidas, CIBC, Rogers, Canadian Tire, Biosteel. He makes more money than Crosby on and off the ice. That's in America. North America. Central...South. The sad thing is he isn't a household name in your country because he doesn't play for a US team so he doesn't exist. That's the US hockey fans loss. Crosby, btw, comes in at #4. Auston Matthews makes more than either. Cause he's American. Yet no where near as good as McDavid. If Matthews is a "superstar" in your country, and McDavid isn't, maybe it's time to rethink the meaning of the word. Cause Connor McDavid is a superstar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: I guess different countries...the guy is already a legend here...but I can't name a single NASCAR driver. I live in Billybobville, PA and I can't name a NASCAR driver, either. And no, I don't want a list of them or a highlight. If I want to watch hillbillies drive around a circle, I'll go down in front of Wegmans (supermarket) and watch the imbecile locals try to figure out the traffic "turnabout." Edited July 27, 2021 by ruxpin 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 The NHL does need to do a better job of marketing itself, though. You don't see commercials with the league stars on them. I mean, on local TV you do, and they sound/look like hostage victims reading a demand note (think Mike Richards with WG BMW). Or as human as, "Greetings, Professor Falken. Would you like to play a game?" For whatever reason, the NHL does not market nationwide. It remains a niche sport in the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: I guess different countries...the guy is already a legend here...but I can't name a single NASCAR driver. McDavid comes in at #2 for hockey endorsements. He had a CCM contract before he was drafted. Still does. Adidas, CIBC, Rogers, Canadian Tire, Biosteel. He makes more money than Crosby on and off the ice. That's in America. North America. Central...South. The sad thing is he isn't a household name in your country because he doesn't play for a US team so he doesn't exist. That's the US hockey fans loss. Crosby, btw, comes in at #4. Auston Matthews makes more than either. Cause he's American. Yet no where near as good as McDavid. If Matthews is a "superstar" in your country, and McDavid isn't, maybe it's time to rethink the meaning of the word. Cause Connor McDavid is a superstar. I dont see this is a "country" issue. It's a league issue. Crosby went to the Penguins. You know, Canadian Mario Lemieuxs, Penguins? The same Penguins that somehow had Mario, Jagar, Cindy, Frankenmalken, Fluery, etc. The league darlings franchise has been the recipient of over the top coverage, non stop nauseating praise, marketing. Edmonton does not receive that same league coverage, and I say it's more because of Mario Lemieux than it is what country the team resides in I'm pretty sure Wayne Gretzky had no problem being recognized as the greatest player the game has ever had, and he was in Edmonton Edited July 27, 2021 by CoachX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, CoachX said: I'm pretty sure Wayne Gretzky had no problem being recognized as the greatest player the game has ever had, and he was in Edmonton Sure thanks to the trade to the Kings. Then once you get the Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn's coming to your game we'll a star is born. That matters...think not then try and trade McDavid to L.A. and watch his name vlow up... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 @OccamsRazor Disagree. Gretzky was the man before he went to LA. But I agree, going there solidified his celebrity He never won a SC after leaving EDM. His legend predated LA If the league marketed these young stars the way they did Crosby, he would be huge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, CoachX said: Disagree. Gretzky was the man before he went to LA. But I agree, going there solidified his celebrity But he wasn't popular in the US till then. Disagree all you want. Truth hurts sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: But he wasn't popular in the US till then. Disagree all you want. Truth hurts sometimes. It does. this isnt one of those times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 21 minutes ago, CoachX said: It does. this isnt one of those times. Well ya can continue to argue this point all you guys want I've made my point and you're still wrong matter what you type next. Good day sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 43 minutes ago, CoachX said: It does. this isnt one of those times. It really is, though. Sure, Gretzky was big to you and me and to the one in 100,000 people that happen to be NHL fans (especially back then). I mean, when he was in Edmonton there was what, 24 teams? If that? And NYC metro had 3 of them, so you figure maybe 20 markets and 6 were in Canada. But I don't remember Gretzky on boxes of Wheaties (I wouldn't be the best to know, so this is not a good example). I don't remember Nike/Reebok endorsements or the like. I remember people like Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley and Magic Johnson and Ken Griffey or Barry Bonds or similar or Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, the random Dallas Cowboy. But even many hockey fans back then had no idea who Marcel Dionne was let alone the random shopper watching Cheers on a Thursday night. I think non-hockey fans may have known the name Gretzky enough to correctly answer an $800 question on Jeopardy in a pinch, but most not. And that's the difference in national marketing between the major US team sports and hockey and why it's still largely a gate-driven league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ruxpin said: But I don't remember Gretzky on boxes of Wheaties (I wouldn't be the best to know, so this is not a good example). I remember he was on Sugar Crisps box with the Kings when he scored the record breaking goal. I never ate Wheaties so can't comment on this. Edited July 27, 2021 by OccamsRazor #boubonup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.