Eichel to Vegas for Tuch, Krebs, Picks

[JR Ewing]

4 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Eichel is not a doctor.  Obviously someone got to him. Someone convinced him. I tired to reach him in vain to see a neurosurgeon in Rochester NY, who did work at the Philly childrens hospital, an esteemed place just like the University of Rochester Medical center.  But the arrogant prick was not taking calls.

 

Any player taking any call for reason from any fan would need to have his head examined.

 

[Samifan]

3 hours ago, pilldoc said:

What the hell does that mean?

applicable response to most of HJ’s posts

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

After I have had time to digest this trade, look at it from various angles, listened to various opinions on it, I am thinking, that, assuming both Tuch and Eichel come back completely ready to play (whether at the tail end of this season, or for training camp next season), this really could turn out to be a win-win for both the Vegas Knights and Buffalo Sabres.

For all the negativity towards Eichel, I honestly do think all the guy wants to do is win, given a chance to win, and play in an environment that fosters winning.
From his point of view, and complicated by Buffalo's stance on his own preferences for someone opening him up on a surgery table, the Sabres simply weren't that place.

After listening to several direct interviews with Eichel, on various subjects, it seems pretty apparent that while he certainly could have been part of the solution in Buffalo, at some point, he just no longer wanted to be there.

Enter Vegas. Enter a team that from the get-go decided, "To hell with hoarding prospects and picks, we want to win now!" and to that end, everything they've done transaction wise has leaned towards that.
Eichel will be going into a situation where he won't have to be "the man", or even a team leader all the young guys will look to guide them to a championship.

He will be going into a situation where the will be one of the top players on the team (maybe THE top player), but surrounded by established vets and an established leadership structure within the player ranks.
All he would really need to do is keep his mouth and his brain out of controversy, play hockey, and be the 1C Vegas has been lacking since their inception.
If he can do that, Vegas did well here.

As for Buffalo, they are getting a really good power forward in Alex Tuch...the kind of player I don't believe they have had in a long time.
Plays big, can be bruising, but also has good speed and good puck skills.
He also is a guy who is coming from a team where he played with guys whose mindset IS winning, winning now, even despite the fact the SC has eluded the Knights to this point, so I think that kind of attitude, a fresh attitude, can help filter to the rest of the Sabres.

Peyton Krebs, of course, will need to prove he is every bit as good as people think he will be, but from all indications, I see no reason why he can't be.
And he can now continue to develop in an environment, whether in Buffalo or Rochester, where there is a bit more time before people really expect a Stanley Cup.
Heck, if his development is accelerated, he can even be part of the reason Buffalo contends sooner than later.

The picks, while great, are just that: picks. What Buffalo does with them will ultimately determine how well that part of the deal turns out for them.

In the early going though, I want to say Buffalo came out ahead if we are just looking at Eichel for Tuch/Krebs, becaue Buffalo, from their vantage point, got rid of an expensive 'team headache', and got back an established power forward signed to a very team friendly contract (Tuch is UNDER 5M AAV cap hit!), and a very promising young center.

But if Eichel comes back, falls right into the kind of hockey Vegas is known to play, good lord, that team will be VERY dangerous....and in that case, one could argue, "Vegas won this trade hands down!"
Eichel-Stone-Pacioretty on a line?
Making the line of Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault the second line with less pressure?
That is a recipe for a complete top six that can compete with anyone.

Of course, Eichel's 10M cap hit may mean that when Vegas is fully healthy, a player or two may need to be moved out in order to be cap compliant.....
But this is Vegas. They don't worry about such things until they need to.
They just get the players they want, worry about the consequences later.
So far, they've done very well, short of win a Cup, in that area.

Buffalo > Vegas on the trade right now.
But when both Tuch and Eichel come back (and when Krebs shows more development), we will really see.

At the end of the day, both fans of the Knight and Sabres should be happy with this.

[Buffalo Rick]

4 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Any player taking any call for reason from any fan would need to have his head examined.

 

I understand your statement JR but not someone that had the surgery and is offering a Doctors name that is legit and h can investigate as much

[JR Ewing]

55 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I understand your statement JR but not someone that had the surgery and is offering a Doctors name that is legit and h can investigate as much

 

When Connor McDavid badly injured his knee in the final game of the 2019 season, he was faced with a problem: he had two doctors giving him almost completely opposite advice from each other. One doctor told him that he absolutely required surgery, that he would miss a year of hockey, and that he would recover but lose a certain amount of skating ability/speed/agility/etc, and that he had to board an airplane within 24 hours to have this done. This was considered to be the standard course of action in sports medicine.

 

The other doctor told him that he absolutely didn't require surgery; that this could be treated with extensive rehab, and that surrendering himself and his abilities to a scalpel was a bad idea. This was, of course, not considered to be the standard thing to do.

 

McDavid took the second doctor's advice, worked like a dog, and completed a rehab process which was the first of its kind, and all without a loss of his athletic ability.

 

That's the long way of getting around to saying that nowhere in there was it reasonable for him to listen to what fans have to say, because they don't have a God damned bit of skin in the game and, sometimes, are cranks/nuts for good measure.

 

Put yourself in Eichel's shoes: at its very best, your communication with him, detailing your experience, offers absolutely no new insight for him. Actual doctors were already telling him what to expect. At its worst, Eichel would have faced dealing with somebody who could well be a nut.

 

It's not arrogance to listen to doctors instead of fans. It's just common sense.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by JR Ewing

[J0e Th0rnton]

10 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Some made sense to be dealt and in arrogant Eichel's case he had to be dealt, he is taking a chance on this surgery. NO NHL PLAYER HAS EVER HAD IT.  Do you understand that part?  In defense of the Sabres management?  Eichel is not a doctor.  Obviously someone got to him. Someone convinced him. I tired to reach him in vain to see a neurosurgeon in Rochester NY, who did work at the Philly childrens hospital, an esteemed place just like the University of Rochester Medical center.  But the arrogant prick was not taking calls. Just selling jerseys.  And I have one never worn. I might go to a game with it wrapped in plastic and sell it for twenty bucks.  I think Ill get that because its an NHL jersey and there is a market for ex players jerseys.  I see them worn all the time.  Hell at Bills games I see people wearing Bryce Paup.  I would not be caught dead in it.  Just like I do not really want to wear this one now.  Back to the trade of the decade, there are varying opinions out there.  The most common and correct one of course is nobody really " won" the trade.  People always want a simple answer. There is NO SIMPLE ANSWER ON THIS ONE.  If he comes out of it 80% of his former self some say they still won. Oh, but what if Krebs scores 30 goals next year?  And Tuch is going to do just as well and I would bet better because he is playing for the team he dreamed of playing for.  He is a Sabres fan through and through.  So Krebs and how successful he is may determine who "wins" this trade.  We had a gun held to our head.   The gun was a Jack Eichel special.

No nhl player, but several people have had this surgery over the last 20 years. It's considered superior to the fusion surgery because, well, you will still have motion. Fusion surgery limits motion after the surgery in way 99% of athletes complain about.

[radoran]

6 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

No nhl player, but several people have had this surgery over the last 20 years. It's considered superior to the fusion surgery because, well, you will still have motion. Fusion surgery limits motion after the surgery in way 99% of athletes complain about.

 

I do not understand Buffalo's position on it

 

It's almost like they wanted to break up with Eichel.

 

Seeing many posts from Buffalo folks indicating Eichel wasn't the best teammate or captain

 

Lots of scuttlebutt. Possible sour grapes.

 

We'll see how he fits in Vegas.

 

As it is Tuch is a WNY native who is excited to be a Sabre and can bring that enthusiasm to a locker room that looks to be more focused than they ever were with Eichel.

 

Could be a win win trade which is something of a rarity in these situations.

[flyercanuck]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:27 PM, Villella McMeans said:

 

 

 

I agree Eichel is second best after McJesus, when healthy though, and if he gets healthy again Los Vegas will have easily won the trade since they didn't lose their core players - and Buffalo probably just keep getting bad luck again...

 

 I'd take MacKinnon, or Draisaitl over him any day. There's several more in the conversation as well....Matthews, Pasternak, Kucherov, Panarin...heck I'd take my chances with Alexis Lafreniere or Andrei Svechnikov over Eichels bloated head.

Edited November 7, 2021 by flyercanuck

[flyercanuck]

13 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

When Connor McDavid badly injured his knee in the final game of the 2019 season, he was faced with a problem: he had two doctors giving him almost completely opposite advice from each other. One doctor told him that he absolutely required surgery, that he would miss a year of hockey, and that he would recover but lose a certain amount of skating ability/speed/agility/etc, and that he had to board an airplane within 24 hours to have this done. This was considered to be the standard course of action in sports medicine.

 

The other doctor told him that he absolutely didn't require surgery; that this could be treated with extensive rehab, and that surrendering himself and his abilities to a scalpel was a bad idea. This was, of course, not considered to be the standard thing to do.

 

McDavid took the second doctor's advice, worked like a dog, and completed a rehab process which was the first of its kind, and all without a loss of his athletic ability.

 

That's the long way of getting around to saying that nowhere in there was it reasonable for him to listen to what fans have to say, because they don't have a God damned bit of skin in the game and, sometimes, are cranks/nuts for good measure.

 

Put yourself in Eichel's shoes: at its very best, your communication with him, detailing your experience, offers absolutely no new insight for him. Actual doctors were already telling him what to expect. At its worst, Eichel would have faced dealing with somebody who could well be a nut.

 

It's not arrogance to listen to doctors instead of fans. It's just common sense.

 

 

 

Especially when Ryan Miller had already warned him to block that #.  

[Buffalo Rick]

14 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

No nhl player, but several people have had this surgery over the last 20 years. It's considered superior to the fusion surgery because, well, you will still have motion. Fusion surgery limits motion after the surgery in way 99% of athletes complain about.

Well let me tell you I had the fusion and lost no motion.  If they use a plate, yes

[Buffalo Rick]

15 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

When Connor McDavid badly injured his knee in the final game of the 2019 season, he was faced with a problem: he had two doctors giving him almost completely opposite advice from each other. One doctor told him that he absolutely required surgery, that he would miss a year of hockey, and that he would recover but lose a certain amount of skating ability/speed/agility/etc, and that he had to board an airplane within 24 hours to have this done. This was considered to be the standard course of action in sports medicine.

 

The other doctor told him that he absolutely didn't require surgery; that this could be treated with extensive rehab, and that surrendering himself and his abilities to a scalpel was a bad idea. This was, of course, not considered to be the standard thing to do.

 

McDavid took the second doctor's advice, worked like a dog, and completed a rehab process which was the first of its kind, and all without a loss of his athletic ability.

 

That's the long way of getting around to saying that nowhere in there was it reasonable for him to listen to what fans have to say, because they don't have a God damned bit of skin in the game and, sometimes, are cranks/nuts for good measure.

 

Put yourself in Eichel's shoes: at its very best, your communication with him, detailing your experience, offers absolutely no new insight for him. Actual doctors were already telling him what to expect. At its worst, Eichel would have faced dealing with somebody who could well be a nut.

 

It's not arrogance to listen to doctors instead of fans. It's just common sense.

 

 

Im only saying the more info the better and to listen to people that actually had the procedure done.  It cant hurt to simply know what to expect if he were to take the suggested course.  Now McDavid was fortunate.  Sometimes surgery is necessary.  Like in Eichel's case.  I am sure they tried traction.  A very common procedure with herneated discs especially in the neck.  They take a water bag and suspend it on a door or something and this rope goes through a pulley, around your neck goes a support and the weight of the water pulls your neck away from your body, hoping to fix the herniation.  It gave me very short relief.  But the pain returned big time and surgery was imminent.  

Edited November 7, 2021 by Hockey Junkie

[J0e Th0rnton]

2 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Well let me tell you I had the fusion and lost no motion.  If they use a plate, yes

How old and physically active were you at the time of the surgery?

[Samifan]

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

At its worst, Eichel would have faced dealing with somebody who could well be a nut.

Could?

[JR Ewing]

3 hours ago, Samifan said:

Could?

 

Well...    lol

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I guess today every thing was finalized through the league and made official?
Jack Eichel during an interview AT & T Sportsnet (Vegas affiliate) and rockin the Knights' colors.
Eichel says he hopes to play 3 months after he has his surgery. We will see.

I know Tuch is still out, but I wonder if the Sabres will have Peyton Krebs with the big club right away or start him in Rochester?


 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I know Tuch is still out, but I wonder if the Sabres will have Peyton Krebs with the big club right away or start him in Rochester?

 

Pretty sure he's slated for Rochester with Cozens, who was a linemate as I understand it in Junior.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

40 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Pretty sure he's slated for Rochester with Cozens, who was a linemate as I understand it in Junior.

 

I didn't know about the connection between Krebs and Cozens, but if the Sabres really do want to develop chemistry between them, then perhaps they bring Krebs to Buffalo because that's where Cozens has been playing. 
5pts in 11 games so far for him.

 

I suppose Buffalo could send them both to Rochester to work together using bigger minutes, then bring them back as a pair.
I mean, its not like Buffalo is bristling with "non moveable" players in their top six. I think reality is setting in for them and they are slowly sliding down the standings once again.

[lynxrattle]

Krebs and Cozens seemed to have Team Canada Juniors TOI together as well. There is a thought to this trade.

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Pretty sure he's slated for Rochester with Cozens, who was a linemate as I understand it in Junior.

 

They played on different junior teams, Lethbridge for Cozens and Kootenay and Winnipeg for Krebs. They did play for Team Canada together.

Edited November 8, 2021 by flyercanuck

[Samifan]

11 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I know Tuch is still out, but I wonder if the Sabres will have Peyton Krebs with the big club right away or start him in Rochester?

He’s here in Rochester to start off. He has played 3 games :  0 goals. 5 assists 

 

He is developing chemistry with Jack Quinn (12 pts in 8 games) so maybe they’ll get called up together when the Sabres decide it’s time. 

[radoran]

2 hours ago, Samifan said:

He is developing chemistry with Jack Quinn

 

Yeah, conflated a bunch of things...

 

He'll be in Rochester with Quinn. He texted Cozens to say "I texted him like, 'Looks like I'm coming to Buffalo, we're being linemates again,'

 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/peyton-krebs-talks-trade-to-buffalo-sabres-rochester-americans/c-327615256

 

"We're not in a rush to put him in here (in Buffalo) right away and have to just jump right into the lineup," Adams said. "This is about the long-term and building this and developing this the right way. And that's how we're looking at it."

[Samifan]

So here is a video of Eichel arriving to his presser in Vegas.

 

Definitely beats his arrival in Buffalo when he was picked up in a Lumina and quickly whisked away to an Applebees. 

[Icechipper]

That. Can't. Be. Real.....or just Vegas all the time?

[Samifan]

12 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

That. Can't. Be. Real.....or just Vegas all the time?

Pretty sure it’s real because they showed same footage on NHL Network and ESPN. Vegas at level 10 24/7

[Icechipper]

I would have jumped back in the limo, say take me to the fr#*ki"g airport I want sanctuary in Sweden.....!