Mikko Koskinen - Rolling Back The Years

[Hockey-78]

Shot, dead and buried last season.

 

This season: 7 GP, 6 W 2.18 GAA, .934 SVV%. Plain wow.

 

A perfect timing for a 33 year goalie in his contract season to perform like this. When Smith returns, DT will face a tough decision: split the time, still favor Smith or ride the hot hand as long as he's hot?

[JR Ewing]

33 minutes ago, Hockey-78 said:

Shot, dead and buried last season.

 

This season: 7 GP, 6 W 2.18 GAA, .934 SVV%. Plain wow.

 

A perfect timing for a 33 year goalie in his contract season to perform like this. When Smith returns, DT will face a tough decision: split the time, still favor Smith or ride the hot hand as long as he's hot?

 

I have no idea how much this matters... Jesse Puljujarvi said that Koskinen spent the entire last year (due to Covid) apart from his wife and newborn daughter, and was absolutely miserable and depressed, and was beyond happy to be together again this season. I don't expect him to carry this performance through the season, but perhaps a bounce-back of some sort is a reasonable-enough expectation.

 

If Tippett's past tells us anything, he'll go with Smith whenever he has the chance.

 

[yave1964]

20 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I have no idea how much this matters... Jesse Puljujarvi said that Koskinen spent the entire last year (due to Covid) apart from his wife and newborn daughter, and was absolutely miserable and depressed, and was beyond happy to be together again this season. I don't expect him to carry this performance through the season, but perhaps a bounce-back of some sort is a reasonable-enough expectation.

 

If Tippett's past tells us anything, he'll go with Smith whenever he has the chance.

 

I loved when he came back to North America, I follow a lot of Europe Hockey, he was the goalie of goalies in the KHL for half a dozen years. I see no reason to believe that he cannot be a solid 1B on a contender. The problem is when he first came over and won like seven of his first eight he got that cringeworthy contract extention and expectations got the better of him.

[JR Ewing]

Just now, yave1964 said:

I loved when he came back to North America, I follow a lot of Europe Hockey, he was the goalie of goalies in the KHL for half a dozen years. I see no reason to believe that he cannot be a solid 1B on a contender. The problem is when he first came over and won like seven of his first eight he got that cringeworthy contract extention and expectations got the better of him.

 

 

The really aggravating thing about it, and it was such an Oilers thing to do: Chiarelli was allowed to sign Koskinen to that deal, and then they fired him the next day. It went from "Your our GM, and you have permission to make long term/expensive deals" on one day, and the next it was "This isn't working out, man. We're going to have to let you go."

 

Because Oilers.

 

I've said it for many years, including around here, but one of the questions I would ask, when the Oilers make a move would be "Would Ken Holland do that?" Anyway, the Koskinen deal was a time I asked that aloud, and this all makes me think of a post I made when Holland was hired:

 

---

 

Permit me to tell a true story about the well established “Edmonton Oilers Management Style”.

 

Once upon a time the Oilers had a bonafide All Star NHL defensemen on their roster, he was their number one d-man and one of the best players and leaders on the team. His salary reflected his status on the team.

One day the Edmonton Oiler management decided they no longer liked this player, because he had said some things in the media and presumably did some things in the locker room that upset them.

 

Instead of finding a way to recoup some value from their NHL All-star defensemen and find the best way to move him out of town for a material return, the management of the Edmonton Oilers decided that their best course of action with one of their largest assets was to wage a public and ugly war of words with the player through the MSM. Of course this depreciated the value of the NHL All-star defensemen even further.

 

Then, to prove some kind of point, the management of the Edmonton Oilers decided that their best course of action would be to bury the NHL All-star defensemen in an other NHL team’s minor league team.

 

Remarkably, the Edmonton Oilers actually paid the NHL All-star defensemen millions of dollars to play for another team’s AHL squad. This is the point in the story when a rational person would ask, why would the Edmonton Oilers management do this?

 

The answer I have arrived at is because the Management of Edmonton Oilers time and time again have proven that they care less about winning hockey games than they do about “things” that are not material to achieving what should be their primary objective. Failed organizations fall prey to this all the time, they get so caught up in the day-to-day trials and tribulations of the struggle that their mandate gets lost in a sea of fog.

 

As counterintuitive as it sounds, the management of the Edmonton Oilers would appear to value “being right”, “paying your dues”, “earning your ice time” and “reparations for having their feeling hurt” amongst a myriad of other old times cliches than they do about actually winning hockey games.

 

I’m not making this **** up, just examine the Oilers W-L records the past dozen years. The futility of the management group in the Katz Era is epic. Their history does not lie.

 

The Edmonton Oilers Management desperately require an Agent of Change. Running Jesse Puljujarvi out of town on the next train to nowhere or trading him for pennies on the dollar would be “more of the same” that we’ve seen in this town for years.

 

Ken Holland has a Herculean task ahead of him, if he can be the one that reforms and fixes the Management Style of Edmonton Oilers he will deserve a statue besides Wayne’s. I for one am rooting for Mr. Holland.

---

 

Ken Holland isn't perfect, but I firmly believe there's more ticks in his pro column than there is in the cons. What to do with Koskinen is another opportunity to see what he will do.

 

[lynxrattle]

What we know for sure is that he played miserably last season (and most of the season before that, IIRC) and that he is 33 years old. Then we can speculate on what Pulju said, and make an assumption on that: Koskinen might play miserably if he feels miserable. That is not a recipe for playoffs success.

[OccamsRazor]

On 11/4/2021 at 6:39 PM, JR Ewing said:

he'll go with Smith whenever he has the chance.

 

Seen a report that they made an offer for Martin Jones but the Flyers refused it.

 

The report never mentioned what they offer was just wondering if you heard about it and if so what was the offer.

[JR Ewing]

43 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Seen a report that they made an offer for Martin Jones but the Flyers refused it.

 

The report never mentioned what they offer was just wondering if you heard about it and if so what was the offer.

 

I've seen similar reports, but none of them mentioned what the pieces were. It's just as well, because they shouldn't be looking at Jones, anyway.

 

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I've seen similar reports, but none of them mentioned what the pieces were. It's just as well, because they shouldn't be looking at Jones, anyway.

 

 

I think Jones has been pretty solid this year on this dumpster fire of a team where no one wants to help Hart or Jones I would expect it to fetch much maybe a 3rd or 4th that isn’t too bad I think but I get it if you don't like Jones.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by OccamsRazor
bourbon isn't working

[JR Ewing]

22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think Jones has been pretty solid this year on this dumpster fire of a team where no one wants to help Hart or Jones I would expect it to fetch much maybe a 3rd or 4th that isn’t too bad I think but I get it if you don't like Jones.

 

 

 

Yeah, I think you can see where I'm going. I'm not saying that he's terrible, but that we know what they could be expect. Jones has, for several years, sort of hovered near or slightly below replacement level, which is what they already have in Mikko Koskinen.

 

[JR Ewing]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:01 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Seen a report that they made an offer for Martin Jones but the Flyers refused it.

 

The report never mentioned what they offer was just wondering if you heard about it and if so what was the offer.

 

Elliotte Friedman was told that the offer was Jones for a 5th round pick.

 

[radoran]

7 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Elliotte Friedman was told that the offer was Jones for a 5th round pick.

 

I can definitely see ol' Fletch walking away from that one. Jones c/should have more value than that.

 

@yave1964 mentioned a possible move for Holtby? That would be great for my fantasy hockey team

[JR Ewing]

27 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I can definitely see ol' Fletch walking away from that one. Jones c/should have more value than that.

 

@yave1964 mentioned a possible move for Holtby? That would be great for my fantasy hockey team

 

I honestly don't know what Martin Jones is worth. Given his performance for four years now, it can't be much, but I would imagine the value goes up the closer they get to the deadline, so I don't blame Fletcher for passing on it. He's on an expiring contract, and I wouldn't expect Philly to re-sign him, so any return would seem to have some value.

 

If a 5th wasn't good weeks ago, a 4th might do it, and that's better of the Flyers.

 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

I would imagine the value goes up the closer they get to the deadline

 

This is pretty much what I was thinking.

 

Really hard to get a read on Jones given that he's been backstopping some truly terrible teams for the past few years.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Elliotte Friedman was told that the offer was Jones for a 5th round pick.

 

 

Yeah i hope Chuck holds out for more than that...in this goalie market he has more value than that.

 

I would even have Sandstrom on the market too...

[OccamsRazor]

28 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

I wouldn't expect Philly to re-sign him, so any return would seem to have some value.

 

Me either but after watching them run it back with Elliott a year beyond when they should have, i can see them bringing him back.

 

The team in front of them has been some of the worst hockey i have tried to watch from the Flyers.

 

[JR Ewing]

52 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

This is pretty much what I was thinking.

 

Really hard to get a read on Jones given that he's been backstopping some truly terrible teams for the past few years.

 

So, I kind of go with Bill James on this: a lot of what we think of as goaltending is defense, and yes, Jones has been playing for bad teams. I think I would have been better off talking about Martin Jones' perceived value, and I'm not sure how to work it out, but I agree with you that it's not easy. One thing I always looked at was how they played compared to the goalies they played with:

 

2019 - Jones SV% > teammates, QS% > teammates

2020 - Jones lower in each

2021 - Jones almost identical to all in each

2022 - Jones handily outplayed by Hart

 

In front of a better team, he may be able to provide something around league average backup ability, lower-end 1B, I'd think. There's value in that, but again, I don't know how much for sure, other than that it goes up at the deadline.

 

Fletcher can't really lose here. If he holds out, he may do better than that 5th, and if it doesn't happen, the worst thing that happens is Jones walks, and he came at no asset cost.

 

[OccamsRazor]

45 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

In front of a better team, he may be able to provide something around league average backup ability, lower-end 1B, I'd think. There's value in that, but again, I don't know how much for sure, other than that it goes up at the deadline.

 

Oilers fans know well the value of a backup had they had a better one after Roloson went down in the finals there may have been a different outcome.

 

And as you said agreeing on that value is something different.

 

Lord knows if the Flyers had a better option than Boucher or Leighton they may have had a different fate as well.

 

I'll even say if they had a better option than Hextall and Snow they could've had a better outcome too in 1997.

 

But yeah Martin Jones sure is an arguable point of what he brings in net.

 

I'm good move him or just moving on from him in the offseason...or he even being brought back.

[OccamsRazor]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:42 PM, JR Ewing said:

There's value in that, but again, I don't know how much for sure, other than that it goes up at the deadline.

 

Ok how Jones straight up for Carter Savoie????

 

Seems like a fair trade to me.

 

He is a linemate of Flyer prospect Bobby Brink.

[JR Ewing]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok how Jones straight up for Carter Savoie????

 

Seems like a fair trade to me.

 

He is a linemate of Flyer prospect Bobby Brink.

 

Not that Savoie is the top prospect in the league, or anything like that, but why would the Oilers be interested in dealing a 20-year old prospect for a 32-year old UFA?

 

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Not that Savoie is the top prospect in the league, or anything like that, but why would the Oilers be interested in dealing a 20-year old prospect for a 32-year old UFA?

 

 

The league exists to help the Flyers.

 

It's the way they've always done it.

 

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Not that Savoie is the top prospect in the league, or anything like that, but why would the Oilers be interested in dealing a 20-year old prospect for a 32-year old UFA?

 

 

So he can play with his brother after Philly drafts him. Cause brothers always have to play together in the NHL, dontcha know?

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Not that Savoie is the top prospect in the league, or anything like that, but why would the Oilers be interested in dealing a 20-year old prospect for a 32-year old UFA?

 

 

Because the Oilers feel bad for denying the Flyers a Cup in the 80's to help extend their drought.

 

That is a long time to carry that guilt.

 

I'm extending an olive branch...

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

So he can play with his brother after Philly drafts him. Cause brothers always have to play together in the NHL, dontcha know?

 

There has only been one pair to do that right?

 

The Jones Brothers in Chicago?

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Not that Savoie is the top prospect in the league, or anything like that, but why would the Oilers be interested in dealing a 20-year old prospect for a 32-year old UFA?

 

 

 

Ok maybe they can do a swap of Jack St. Ivan for him then.

 

A 6-3 right hand shot also a 4th round pick.

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/300076/jack-st.-ivany

 

Oilers need defensemen. He is ready to be signed to an ELC out of BC.

 

Just day dreaming GMing and bored at work.