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A Call to Trade Giroux and Go to Rebuild


Howie58

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7 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Have not heard about Hextall overruling the scouts, but it's possible.

 

 

Always hated the Morin pick. Still do. Another Homer special.

 

There's not a clear "good guy" after O'Brien. K'Andre Miller, perhaps, or Isac Lundstrom or Rasmus Sandin. Wouldn't really call any of them "difference makers." Lundestrom's 26 points in 93 games. Miller 15 in 73. Sandin 19 in 59.

 

No one else in that first round after O'Brien has played more than a handful of games. Three have played zero.

 

Who would you have taken? https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2018e.html

One of the Philly writers wrote about Hexy overruling the scouts on the Patrick pick, you can find it online, I read jt.  As far as picking someone else over O'Brien , Miller would have been good.  I still hope O'Brien turns into something.  Rubstov is injured again and Morin is on his last shot, Patrick is a bust and Sanheim is nothing special.  

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2 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

As far as picking someone else over O'Brien , Miller would have been good.  I still hope O'Brien turns into something.  Rubstov is injured again and Morin is on his last shot, Patrick is a bust and Sanheim is nothing special.  

 

I like Miller, but don't think he's "a reason" that the Flyers would be better than they are. That was a bad draft with very little depth. Hindsight is always 20/20. And to your point, O'Brien could still be something. He's finishing college.

 

The only real obvious "miss" in the Rubustov draft was DeBrincat, and the entire league passed on him in the first round. Otherwise you're talking role players, not people who would make a difference.

 

Again, 20/20 and you take Pastrnak over Sanheim. And seven other teams passed on him after that pick. Brayden Point went in the third round.

 

Patrick is looking like a bust, and did get them Ellis who c/should be better than they had before. Injuries suck.

 

The problem has been consistently picking in the middle to lower levels of the first round because they're a consistent middling team. That area is generally a crapshoot and they did luck out with the Giroux pick. And that's on the overall phillyosophy of the team for decades now.

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3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

While I'm dreaming of a Fletcher-free Flyers let me also wish that Ellis gets traded too.

 

I was ok with the Ellis trade and when he is healthy will still be ok with him.

 

He is the power play QB this was built around and well he got hurt it happens in a sport like hockey. Their words not mine that is why they moved Ghost they felt he was just a shot from the point and they wanted a puck distributor.

 

It is also why Ivan struggles he is the guy who is going to blast it from the point not QB the powerplay.

 

Ellis has only played 4 games and has netted 1 goal and 4 assists. He can be a big part of fixing this.

 

The crazy news is he still has out produced the two guys he was traded for by 4 points.

 

That is all I am sharing on this mess some call hockey...not sure how they get out of this one. A lot of digging to do.

 

The best case seems everyone gets healthy and the team that was envisioned gets to take the ice not sure it will happen and if it does will it be too little too late.

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11 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I like Miller, but don't think he's "a reason" that the Flyers would be better than they are. That was a bad draft with very little depth. Hindsight is always 20/20. And to your point, O'Brien could still be something. He's finishing college.

 

The only real obvious "miss" in the Rubustov draft was DeBrincat, and the entire league passed on him in the first round. Otherwise you're talking role players, not people who would make a difference.

 

Again, 20/20 and you take Pastrnak over Sanheim. And seven other teams passed on him after that pick. Brayden Point went in the third round.

 

Patrick is looking like a bust, and did get them Ellis who c/should be better than they had before. Injuries suck.

 

The problem has been consistently picking in the middle to lower levels of the first round because they're a consistent middling team. That area is generally a crapshoot and they did luck out with the Giroux pick. And that's on the overall phillyosophy of the team for decades now.

That's why we need to dump G and Coots for a maximum return, tank the season and get a high pick and hopefully a better GM. In all likelihood Fletcher will give away a guy like Farabee in a panic move for a center to save his job. I laugh when they say ,Thompson, Brassard and Hayes BF Charlie Brown are injured ..these are fourth line stiffs that bring no offense to the team at all, its just more excuses.  Coots, Konecny and the rest of the forwards other than G and Farabee are underachieving. On defense they are over using Provorov just like we did with Howe, Desjardins and Timmonan. He will be shot by March. Sanheim is a plus one, his defense is better but he's supposed to be an offensive player, he has 0 goals and 3 assists..This crap has gone on for too long,different coaches,GM...same problems, no offense and players disappear for long stretches.

Edited by RonJeremy
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14 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

That's why we need to dump G and Coots for a maximum return, tank the season and get a high pick and hopefully a better GM. In all likelihood Fletcher will give away a guy like Farabee in a panic move for a center to save his job. I laugh when they say ,Thompson, Brassard and Hayes BF Charlie Brown are injured ..these are fourth line stiffs that bring no offense to the team at all, its just more excuses.  Coots, Konecny and the rest of the forwards other than G and Farabee are underachieving.

The reason I dropped Farabee in Conn Smythe Fantasy League is, I didn't think he could sustain because of disappointing lack offense from his linemates and overall team. They are relying on way too many young players. I used the word raw previously, which was wrong.

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1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

or he thought he could do the impossible, compete while retooling.

And that was the achilles heel of the whole plan. Of course hindsight is always 20/20. He was trying to appease both sides. Should have just done a proper rebuild. However in reality, trying to appease both sides was just never going work because he could never go 100%  committed to either retooling  or competing. It was never going to work.

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23 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

This crap has gone on for too long,different coaches,GM...same problems, no offense and players disappear for long stretches.

I’ve been saying that for years…..frustrating isn’t it….

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12 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

The reason I dropped Farabee in Conn Smythe Fantasy League is, I didn't think he could sustain because of disappointing lack offense from his linemates and overall team. They are relying on way too many young players. I used the word raw previously, which was wrong.

Im real close in dropping TK for same reason in All Star…..

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6 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

They are relying on way too many young players.

 

And are simultaneously the fifth oldest team in the league. Which is weird.

 

You have to have that mix in the new NHL - young, somewhat affordable players and established, more expensive pieces.

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9 minutes ago, radoran said:

And are simultaneously the fifth oldest team in the league. Which is weird.

When you sign unwarranted contracts like that, to these older, veteran players..then you're asking for it. We got it.

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8 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

When you sign unwarranted contracts like that, to these older, veteran players..then you're asking for it. We got it.

Exactly, so to get out of this it's going to take bold moves. Trade G and Coots because they get the most return. Maybe Ellis or Atkinson can go at the deadline or offseason. Buy out JVR and Hayes because no one wants them, JVR is invisible. We have way too many big contracts for older guys that are on the downhill.

 

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When I tuned in to Fletcher's presser today he was rattling on about injuries and wanting to see the injured guys back and the full team compete before he made any moves. That's fair enough if the guys that are playing now looked like a competitive, hungry bunch. But even Chuckie must see they don't look like that at all they look like they've checked out and just don't give a damn. There's a Major Funk in that dressing room god only knows how they fix it.

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8 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

When I tuned in to Fletcher's presser today he was rattling on about injuries and wanting to see the injured guys back and the full team compete before he made any moves. That's fair enough if the guys that are playing now looked like a competitive, hungry bunch. But even Chuckie must see they don't look like that at all they look like they've checked out and just don't give a damn. There's a Major Funk in that dressing room god only knows how they fix it.

We have older players who are breaking down, even if they come back healthy and play well, the writing us on the wall. None of these guys are gonna get better with age, they are going to decline physically and statistically. It's time to get what you can and get rid of them. 

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To All,

 

Its sad we are having these discussions yet again. I swear we go through this year after freaking year after freaking year. It gets old after awhile. We must all be gluttons for punishment believing in this FO.  It’s quite maddening…..

 

I watch the games but my emotional attachment to this team is gone and it will remain that way until there is a fundamental change in philosophy within this organization. I genuinely appreciate the history of said team and what Clarke and company did many years ago, but simply put the NHL has changed and the Flyers as a whole have failed to adapt to the new NHL.  Couple that with questionable decisions regarding player acquisition and contracts its no wonder the Flyers are where they are. 

Edited by pilldoc
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6 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

but simply put the NHL has changed and the Flyers as a whole have failed to adapt to the new NHL.  

 

You know... as I was sitting through that nightmare of a game last Friday against Carolina, I was thinking: the team they are playing right now knows what it means to adjust and learn.  The game has changed and the NHL teams (most of them, anyway) adapted accordingly. But the Flyers - I swear, out of their own stubbornness, arrogance, and bullheadedness - just refuse to do that.  I just can't explain it.  It's almost like they want to think that they play in their own league.

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1 minute ago, Mad Dog said:

I swear, out of their own stubbornness, arrogance, and bullheadedness - just refuse to do that.  I just can't explain it.  It's almost like they want to think that they play in their own league.

Sounds like at least 2 other Philadelphia sports franchises we know…. Right?

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1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

I laugh when they say ,Thompson, Brassard and Hayes BF Charlie Brown are injured ..these are fourth line stiffs that bring no offense to the team at all, its just more excuses.  

 

I was watching the game the other night and Jim Jackson was making that excuse... as if these are the players of Nate MacKinnon's caliber we are talking.  LMAO.  I wanted to scream at my TV screen: get real, Jimmy!!!

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The other topic has "top excuses..." and quite frankly they are depressing that we are continuingly repeating them.   

Since 2010

Coach lost the room?  Laviolette, Berube, Hakstol, Vigneault..... all lost the room?   What's crazy is each coach had a winning record.  

Leadership?  Mike Richards (1yr), Pronger (1yr), Giroux (10yrs).... hmmm

Injuries?   Jim McCrossin since 1998.  24 years, holy sh!t.   Maybe it's time? 

GM is crap?  Holmgren, Hextall, Fletcher.    Hextall had 4 years.  Chuck is at 3 years almost to the day.

Underachieving, overpaid vets?   Giroux, Couturier, JVR

 

They've tried spending a ton of money before the cap.  They've tried having 3 coaches with head-coach experience.   It's not for lack of trying, but trying the right way - starting from (near) scratch - they really haven't done.  

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

 

I was watching the game the other night and Jim Jackson was making that excuse... as if these are the players of Nate MacKinnon's caliber we are talking.  LMAO.  I wanted to scream at my TV screen: get real, Jimmy!!!

 

When you're talking about two guys just signed to a one year deal and a waiver wire pickup as if they are important cogs missing...

Bobs Burgers Straws GIF

 

Ellis and, to an extent, Hayes I understand, but if those three missing are a "problem" then the team has some really severe issues.

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18 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

The only way out of this mess is to deal assets and take pennies on the dollar, probably retain some salary too. To really start over you have to deal the overpriced hacks and that's Hayes and JVR. Those 2 are the priorities. Paying them not to play in the O&B will suck for awhile but it's better than them paying them to play in the O&B.

 

 

I hear ya. I'm a Giroux fan too but he can't expect big money again from the Flyers. Re-sign him at $7.5 over 3 years (no longer), something like that, and let him play wing where he's got plenty of points left in him. I know I'm dreaming; that's a huge pay cut. But if he's really the team player...I mean jeez he must have tons of money saved by now.

 

Deal the rest of the dead wood; Yandle, Thompson, Braun, Ellis...Ristolainen keep for $9mil over 3 years. Of course he'll want more, let him test FA. I like what he brings but not for $5.4/year.

 

The biggest hurdle to building an NHL team they already solved: they got Carter Hart and he's the cornerstone. But the Flyers can't waste his best years with Hayes and JVR taking up air and space, Ellis forever injured...etc. Rebuild time is now while Hart, Provorov, Farabee, Konecny - even Laugton -are still young and hungry. And keep Zach MacEwen dammit. He's a born Flyer!

 

 

Umm..sorry Giroux is no longer worth 7.5 million per year.

That is what the problem with this franchise, signing long term has been Flyers (Giroux) or no talent Flyers (Hayes) to long tern big money contracts.

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