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Time to fire the 3 stooges!


Fizz

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20 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Nice post! Stacked up like that you really see the contrast and it's no surprise. The ages of their best vs. the Flyers best, the overpayments but the Flyers' are dumber than theirs. Etc.

 

And it still doesn't explain what happened to the Flyers. The first 10 games were pretty good and then it quickly started looking like last year all over again.

 

I didn't expect a SC-favorite out of Philly this year. I did hope we'd see progress not more regression.

 

Probably because the first 10 games are more of a "feel out' period for others...whereas for the Flyers that was their Stanley Cup.

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20 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

And it still doesn't explain what happened to the Flyers. The first 10 games were pretty good and then it quickly started looking like last year all over again.

 

I didn't expect a SC-favorite out of Philly this year. I did hope we'd see progress not more regression.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but it appears that those first 10 games were the outlier and this team is largely the same as last year (and the last 10 years for that matter).

 

I do not understand believing the offseason moves were progress.  It was obvious then and now that they were lateral moves at best and would have no fundamental effect on the trajectory of the team with one exception - we are in a vastly worse cap situation than we were two years ago.

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2 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

I do not understand believing the offseason moves were progress. 

 

While not wholeheartedly disagreeing with your sentiment, it was clear from the Niskanen year that the team was in desperate need of a true top pair defenceman - it's just that the one they got went down with an injury.

 

Their (overrated) 2C hasn't really played.

 

I'm not at all saying it's an obvious Cup contender, but the team assembled over the off-season hasn't really played a game yet.

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2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Flyers Analytics:

1.  North American Skater

2.  Plays a 200ft Game

3.  Doesn't skate so fast so as to embarrass the rest of the team.

LMAO at #3.🤣🤣🤣🤣

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1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

...it appears that those first 10 games were the outlier and this team is largely the same as last year (and the last 10 years for that matter). ...

 

The team did get one upgrade on defense, Ryan Ellis. (Ristolainen is not worth his cap hit). Ellis is an excellent D-man. Then there's Atkinson and then there's...an end to the upgrades. Jones turned out to be one and Seeler is a fine 7th, MacEwen is a born Flyer, Brassard is a serviceable 3C.

 

So "largely the same?" I can't argue but there are some important differences....the main difference-maker has been out of the lineup and that's the problem with the upgrade(s).

 

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

I do not understand believing the offseason moves were progress.  It was obvious then and now that they were lateral moves at best and would have no fundamental effect on the trajectory of the team

 

...I should've been clear. I was referring to individuals, guys who should be progressing but aren't. Provorov, Sanheim, Konecny, Farabee and Hart of course (who has shaken off last year's rot).

 

Provorov's situation is the most frustrating to me. To bring him along properly the Flyers should've brought in whoever, whatever it took to make sure what's happened to him did not happen. Now it'll take a minor miracle for him to reach his potential. He'll be 25 next month it's now or never. Maybe the best thing is to trade him...Flyers loss and his gain.

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3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Probably because the first 10 games are more of a "feel out' period for others...whereas for the Flyers that was their Stanley Cup.

Now you know, when they say "From day one, our goal is to win a Stanley Cup", what they really mean.:ph34r:

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36 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Provorov's situation is the most frustrating to me. To bring him along properly the Flyers should've brought in whoever, whatever it took to make sure what's happened to him did not happen.

 

 

They did and you even mentioned this so I know you know but Ellis I that guy.

 

Dude got hurt.

 

Give him a chance to get healthy and contribute I mean damn he only played in what 4 games (of which they went 3-0-1 in) and up 1 goal and 4 assists in those games and IS STILL 3rd on the defense in points.

 

So for the love of God folks let the guy play first.

 

Same with Kevin Hayes who lost his brother and is fighting through a recovery goddammit if you want to blame anyone blame the bums WHO ARE ACTUALLY PLAYING THE MOTHERFCUKING GAMES!!!

 

Sorry bro not all that vitriol is aimed at you just used your post to add too.

 

Ellis is a very good addition let him play and if he doesn't help and sucks then let's hold him accountable.

 

And I will when the time comes.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

They did and you even mentioned this so I know you know but Ellis I that guy.

 

Dude got hurt.

 

Give him a chance to get healthy and contribute I mean damn he only played in what 4 games (of which they went 3-0-1 in) and up 1 goal and 4 assists in those games and IS STILL 3rd on the defense in points.

 

So for the love of God folks let the guy play first.

 

Same with Kevin Hayes who lost his brother and is fighting through a recovery goddammit if you want to blame anyone blame the bums WHO ARE ACTUALLY PLAYING THE MOTHERFCUKING GAMES!!!

 

Sorry bro not all that vitriol is aimed at you just used your post to add too.

 

Ellis is a very good addition let him play and if he doesn't help and sucks then let's hold him accountable.

 

And I will when the time comes.

 

 

 

So in your mind Hayes is worth a 7 million cap hit?

Okay then.

 

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3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

They did and you even mentioned this so I know you know but Ellis I that guy.

 

Dude got hurt.

 

Give him a chance to get healthy and contribute I mean damn he only played in what 4 games (of which they went 3-0-1 in) and up 1 goal and 4 assists in those games and IS STILL 3rd on the defense in points.

 

So for the love of God folks let the guy play first.

 

Same with Kevin Hayes who lost his brother and is fighting through a recovery goddammit if you want to blame anyone blame the bums WHO ARE ACTUALLY PLAYING THE MOTHERFCUKING GAMES!!!

 

Sorry bro not all that vitriol is aimed at you just used your post to add too.

 

Ellis is a very good addition let him play and if he doesn't help and sucks then let's hold him accountable.

 

And I will when the time comes.

 

 

 

 

The problem with these guys is the big picture. Philly isn't in shape to contend for the cup. These guys are on the downswing of their careers. And their contracts are just more of the "bite you in the ass" type that we keep dreading over and over and over, yet some people keep applauding them everytime they bring in yet another one. 

 

Do I think Hayes and Ellis will make the team better once they're healthy? Sure. Do they make us a cup contender? Not even close. And their contracts are just going to be more of the same...Bryz/JVR/Voracek, I'm sure we'll be throwing Atkinsons in there as well.

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2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The problem with these guys is the big picture. Philly isn't in shape to contend for the cup. These guys are on the downswing of their careers. And their contracts are just more of the "bite you in the ass" type that we keep dreading over and over and over, yet some people keep applauding them everytime they bring in yet another one. 

 

Do I think Hayes and Ellis will make the team better once they're healthy? Sure. Do they make us a cup contender? Not even close. And their contracts are just going to be more of the same...Bryz/JVR/Voracek, I'm sure we'll be throwing Atkinsons in there as well.

You kinda hit the nail on the head with this comment.

You can't sign below average players to above average contracts and expect to contend.

Not saying Ellis is below average but he is defiantly on the down side of his career and Hayes and JVR are below average players and over paid along with half the Flyers line-up.

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7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

They did and you even mentioned this so I know you know but Ellis I that guy.

 

Dude got hurt.

 

Give him a chance to get healthy and contribute

 

I'm talking about before Ellis. Unless my timeline is wrong - which it could very well be - after Niskanen hung em up Fletcher let an entire season go before he got Provorov a partner who could mentor him. Meanwhile the kid was drowning. We all saw it watching on TV imagine how bad it looked to AV and Fletcher. He was 22/23 and was lost in a role too big for him and it showed up in every aspect of his game. And it still is.

 

I know lat year was a funked up year with Covid but the GMs job description didn't change. Deals were still able to happen.

 

Maybe there were no questions about Ellis' health. I get the impression the answer depends on who you ask. Whatever the case, here we are. The Flyers' top D-man, a cornerstone of the team, is sinking before our eyes. And unfortunately he's not the only one.

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20 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

...I should've been clear. I was referring to individuals, guys who should be progressing but aren't. Provorov, Sanheim, Konecny, Farabee and Hart of course (who has shaken off last year's rot).

These guys are all basically as good as they are ever going to be now (3-5 or more years in the league).

 

I mean they all could play and have played better, but I would be shocked if any of them took a step to another level at this point (like being a top 20 player in the league) which is the only thing that is going to move the needle for the Flyers.

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33 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

I mean they all could play and have played better, but I would be shocked if any of them took a step to another level at this point (like being a top 20 player in the league)

 

Really? You include Farabee in that assessment? Provorov? Hart? Konecny? Those 4 strike me as having plenty of upside that's still untapped. What worries me is they won't reach it playing for the Flyers.

 

That's not because I believe Flyers' management is uniquely corrupt or incapable. But it focuses on short-term improvements, this season and next season and no further. And even then they stumble, which was my point about Provorov. One year may not seem like much but I bet it felt like an eternity to him.

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On 12/2/2021 at 7:56 AM, Lindbergh31 said:

The players seem to be playing to get the coaching fired. Whatever AV's system is it doesn't work with this group or probably any other group of players.

this team is so inept they would probably lose a public session

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On 12/2/2021 at 10:12 AM, Lindbergh31 said:

I'd be ok with Rick Tocchet being brought in as head coach, at least he understands the Flyers fans as to what they want to see happening on the ice. Figure out your core and go from there.

love Tocchet, one of my all time favorite Flyers. But, no thanks as a head coach. This is not the time for gimmicks to make fans feel nostalgic. We don't win games, we just think we do. Tocchet hasn't accomplished anything as a head coach and the Flyers have never been successful with a former flyer in that position. There are proven winning head coach candidates out there, that are a better fit. I find it funny that we are all for running Homer and Clarke out (formers) but want to bring in a guy who is most likely loyal to them.

 

Im all for cleaning house all the way to the top. Too bad it won't happen. As for players, Im keeping Ellis, Provy, Coots, Farabee and Hayes and Risto. Everyone else goes. Except for Laughton. I'd make him drive the zamboni. He has experience circling the ice in an uneventful manner

 

and if we are cleaning house at the top (clarke/homer) lets not forget good 'ol Billy Barber. He holds the same title. I can see those three, sitting drunk at a round table looking for a corner

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On 12/2/2021 at 4:05 PM, Lindbergh31 said:

Well I think the players have tuned out AV so if you're the GM what would you do. Lots of fans on here want to do a rebuild which I have no problem doing so who would be your core players to build with.

arrange it so those players could tune in to a new city

 

I keep Hart, Provy, Ellis, Coots, Farabee, Risto and Hayes (maybe)

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On 12/3/2021 at 10:22 AM, radoran said:

I'd look to move JVR at the deadline

the question here, how? Seriously, who wants this guy, at that price? You might have to add something to sweeten the deal, and we are running out of sugar

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On 12/3/2021 at 12:16 PM, ruxpin said:

 

That's what sucks -- people who, like you, have been passionate about the team are increasingly "F###it!"    Me too.

It doesn't at all help that it's both my hockey AND football team.   I know you're in the same [sinking] boat.

can i get on that boat so we can form our own group of stooges?

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59 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Really? You include Farabee in that assessment? Provorov? Hart? Konecny? Those 4 strike me as having plenty of upside that's still untapped. What worries me is they won't reach it playing for the Flyers.

Like I said, they could play better than they are, but I don't suddenly see any of these guys suddenly transforming into perennial allstars.

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20 hours ago, Fizz said:

So in your mind Hayes is worth a 7 million cap hit?

Okay then.

 

 

Doesn't matter if he is worth it right now not many on the team who are worth their pay checks.

 

The guy is hurt and hasn't been healthy enough to stay in the lineup so i can really evaluate his play but i know one thing he damn team mates have been worth a shat...so i am worrying about the guys who suck on the ice now.

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18 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Do they make us a cup contender?

 

Yeah i can't even worry about that part yet-let's get them a WIN first before even thinking about the future....and as far how to get out this hot mess well it has been discussed over and over again the front office is to blame and i don't see a way out of it...i have zero answers for you and am stuck with these guys like you all. I see no light at the end of the tunnel. And even the AHL is struggling too.

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14 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

I'm talking about before Ellis. Unless my timeline is wrong - which it could very well be - after Niskanen hung em up Fletcher let an entire season go before he got Provorov a partner who could mentor him. Meanwhile the kid was drowning. We all saw it watching on TV imagine how bad it looked to AV and Fletcher. He was 22/23 and was lost in a role too big for him and it showed up in every aspect of his game. And it still is.

 

I know lat year was a funked up year with Covid but the GMs job description didn't change. Deals were still able to happen.

 

Maybe there were no questions about Ellis' health. I get the impression the answer depends on who you ask. Whatever the case, here we are. The Flyers' top D-man, a cornerstone of the team, is sinking before our eyes. And unfortunately he's not the only one.

 

Ok yes i agree Chuckles let Ivan down and his best answer to replace Niskanen was Gus who was hot garbage and one of the worst D man i have seen in Philly in a long time.

 

But once Ellis is healthy he is just what Ivan needs. I am more worried about the 2nd and 3rd pairs honestly.

 

WTF do they do with Sanheim and Risto?? If i am GM i am trying to move them for whatever i can.

 

I would trade Sanheim for Josh Manson and a 3rd. Manson is the defensive type they need for the top 4.

 

Provy - Ellis

York - Manson

?????? - ?????

 

Trade Risto for whatever you can get just to move on from this attempt and plugging a hole.

 

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