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Flyers at the trade deadline


flyercanuck

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

25 players that could be moved by the deadline.  Not one Flyer.  No one wants a Flyer.

 

I think it's more that they don't expect the Flyers to move...

 

I don't believe they will move Giroux, for example.

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5 hours ago, ruxpin said:

25 players that could be moved by the deadline.  Not one Flyer.  No one wants a Flyer.

 

https://nhlrumors.com/nhl-rumors-25-players-who-could-be-moved-by-the-nhl-trade-deadline/2021/12/13/

 

There's no Flyers on there because they know Philly will be buyers. And Fletcher will believe Nick Leddy is the missing ingredient to achieve mediocrity. Which he will sell his soul for.

Edited by flyercanuck
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9 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Kaapo is on the first line.

 

Lafreniere is playing third line minutes.

 

 

That's just factually incorrect.

 

There have been injuries, but not to "almost every" first round pick.

 

I'm not at all happy with where the team is and feel that they have mismanaged themselves terribly for a decade. I just don't buy into some of the hyperbole here.

 

They tried to build around two guys - Giroux and Voracek - who were not goal scorers and they never provided the Panarin-type goal scorer to compliment them. They overvalued their draft picks and rushed them. They never wanted to undertake the actual rebuild that they needed and chased the "anything can happen" dragon.

 

I'm on board with all of that.

 

But to say that the Rangers are some sort of example to follow when they've won absolutely nothing through their process, I'll take issue with.

Morin, Foerester, Rubstov, Patrick, Frost and O’Brien….all injured isn’t that enough.

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11 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

One thing that has bothered me for years is we don’t have even one consistent line. Our guys can’t even complete a simple breakout and rush up ice, we can’t complete more than two passes on a play inside the offensive zone.

This.  I'm so tired of the dump and chase.   They don't have enough speed to do this.  

 

8 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Not one Flyer.  No one wants a Flyer.

This actually made me laugh out loud and wake the dog up.   Said in Droopy's voice...."no one wants a flyer"

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2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Morin, Foerester, Rubstov, Patrick, Frost and O’Brien….all injured isn’t that enough.

 

Sure, but that also side steps all the ones on the active roster who aren't.

 

And also that the Rangers haven't "hit" on more than the Flyers'.

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57 minutes ago, Digityman said:

This.  I'm so tired of the dump and chase.   They don't have enough speed to do this.  

 

Meltzer reports that Yeo said that they are coached to dump and chase only when there's not room to make a play to avoid a turnover at the blue line - and that every coach in the league does that.

 

It does, however, make your point that they don't have the speed and perhaps talent to open up space and make plays at the blue line so they are more often dumping it in...

 

I think they have also gotten a bit lazy about it and formed a habit.

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44 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Sure, but that also side steps all the ones on the active roster who aren't.

 

And also that the Rangers haven't "hit" on more than the Flyers'.

Whether they hit or not, the picks they got in trading away the Stepans, etc., were used to bring in the Fox's etc.

 

And though they haven't won anything yet, you can at least understand the logic of the Rangers moves.  They realized they weren't winning anything with their previous aging core, moved them out, and used those assets to build a new, young core.

 

The Flyers moves were lateral at best and actually made the team older.

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And that's the worst-case scenario that Fletch will get it into his head that the Flyers are Mike Hoffman or Taylor Hall away from at least being a completive team and will make a catastrophically idiotic move at the trade deadline, which not only won't solve anything, but set the team back in rebuilding process.  After all, this is so Flyers-like that it won't shock me even one bit. 

 

As it was mentioned so many times, the Flyers' brass is inherently too arrogant, too stubborn, and too clueless to try what actually proved working for so many other franchises.  

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2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Sure, but that also side steps all the ones on the active roster who aren't.

 

And also that the Rangers haven't "hit" on more than the Flyers'.

That's 6 first round picks , that missed significant time with injury. I don't know of any other team that got hit like that.

 

Well,.let's put it this way, whatever they are doing is working far better than what we are doing... 

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1 hour ago, Mad Dog said:

And that's the worst-case scenario that Fletch will get it into his head that the Flyers are Mike Hoffman or Taylor Hall away from at least being a completive team and will make a catastrophically idiotic move at the trade deadline, which not only won't solve anything, but set the team back in rebuilding process.  After all, this is so Flyers-like that it won't shock me even one bit. 

 

As it was mentioned so many times, the Flyers' brass is inherently too arrogant, too stubborn, and too clueless to try what actually proved working for so many other franchises.  

Mad Dog hits on an important point addressed in this piece:

 

https://southphillyreview.com/2021/12/14/2-wins-didnt-solve-problems-for-flyers/

 

Will Fletcher be able to accept his sunk costs on Risto and move on, if the numbers suggest that's the case? He is a test case.  JVR may be one as well.  

 

Best,

 

Howie

Edited by Howie58
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8 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Will Fletcher be able to accept his sunk costs on Risto and move on, if the numbers suggest that's the case? 

 In my opinion, it was beyond just Risto.  His overall "plan" to revamp this team was flawed on numerous levels, which is why we are sitting here now discussing it.

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5 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Sure, but that also side steps all the ones on the active roster who aren't.

 

And also that the Rangers haven't "hit" on more than the Flyers'.

that's the thing the rangers never tore the whole thing down and rebuilt the team with just draft picks like the sens, they traded for players that are nhl prime, draft a goalie and signed panarin, that's why the rebuild was fast, if they did a complete tear down and rebuild with just draft picks that would take a long time. that's the way the flyers should approach this rebuild like 2007 get rid of high salary cap players and trade for elite players that are on the block in the offseason and either play your youth that's ready or sign some scrap heap players to save your cap space so you can pay your elite players.

 

the only reason why this team is in such big hole is because we are paying the wrong players and not the elite ones.

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Fletcher has to be a seller at the deadline if he wants to save his job IMO.

He has to get some assets for players like Giroux, Coturier, Hayes, Ristolalnin and possibly Ellis.

Get what you can for JVR and Linblom.

 

He needs draft picks and a young core to do the rebuild right and the players listed are to old for a rebuild to be done right.

 

I doubt it happens though, and for that reason him and Yeo need to be gone asap and bring in a GM willing to make the hard choices and commit to a rebuild done right.

We have Hart so build from the goalie out and hire a defence first coach. Or at least a HC that can put a scheme a breakout plan and defensive zone coverage so players know where they need to be.

I'm so sick of watching this team running around like chickens with their heads cut off in their zone.

 

Sorry,  but we need a coach that can coach position and responsibility to the players.

Yeo is not that guy and face it Fletcher is a utter failure as a GM.

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2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

they traded for players that are nhl prime, draft a goalie and signed panarin, that's why the rebuild was fast

 

The Rangers have two players in the Top 50 in points - Panarin and Fox. Four in the Top 100. If the Rangers had been without Strome and Trouba for the first quarter of the season, they would more than likely not be where they are today.

 

Strome and Goodrow are each 28. Ellis and Hayes are 30 and 29. Trouba and Ristolainen are both 27. Atkinson is 32, Reaves is 34.

 

The Flyers essentially tried to do what the Rangers did. One can take issue with their choices - I certainly do especially with Hayes and what they gave up for Ristolainen - but the only "superstar" on the Rangers is Panarin. Their 1 and 2 overall picks have produced less than Nolan Patrick.

 

The real indictment of the Flyers from where I sit is that their management clearly doesn't attract top flight free agents. The last "top" free agent on the market that they got was JVR. But another problem is that those guys don't get to free agency much.

 

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

get rid of high salary cap players and trade for elite players that are on the block in the offseason

 

I honestly have no problem getting rid of anybody over the age of 25 - and would listen to anyone about anyone - but it's not always that simple.

 

If there are any "elite" players "on the block" they should be in the conversation for them, and I expect they will be.

 

At this point, for free agents you're looking at possibly Kadri, Gaudreau, the Other Tkachuck, Dubois...

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3 hours ago, tucson83 said:

that's the thing the rangers never tore the whole thing down and rebuilt the team with just draft picks like the sens, they traded for players that are nhl prime, draft a goalie and signed panarin, that's why the rebuild was fast, if they did a complete tear down and rebuild with just draft picks that would take a long time. that's the way the flyers should approach this rebuild like 2007 get rid of high salary cap players and trade for elite players that are on the block in the offseason and either play your youth that's ready or sign some scrap heap players to save your cap space so you can pay your elite players.

 

the only reason why this team is in such big hole is because we are paying the wrong players and not the elite ones.

What NHL player did the Rangers trade picks or players for who was in their prime?  The only one I can see is Trouba.

 

How did the Rangers have all those extra draft picks to trade for Fox, Trouba, etc.?

 

How do you think the Rangers got the cap room to pay Panarin $11M/yr?

 

They did it by trading away the older players on their roster to acquire assets and give them the flexibility to make moves.

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35 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

What NHL player did the Rangers trade picks or players for who was in their prime?  The only one I can see is Trouba.

 

How did the Rangers have all those extra draft picks to trade for Fox, Trouba, etc.?

 

How do you think the Rangers got the cap room to pay Panarin $11M/yr?

 

They did it by trading away the older players on their roster to acquire assets and give them the flexibility to make moves.

yes that's what i was suggesting the flyers should do instead of going a complete tear down and relying on just draft picks to make us better because it's not going to work, we have to acquire assets and trade them to fix this roster like the 07 flyers did. they tore it down by acquiring assets and used them to acquire players that can help us now.

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