Flyers: State of the organization...

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

45 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Gost’s +/- numbers are irrelevant. If you grade that type of player by his defense of course you’ll conclude he’s a liability. No mystery why Fletcher bribed AZ to take him, nor why AV pushed and sent him onto waivers prior to the trade. The Flyers didn’t know what they had after Gost lit up the NHL his rookie year. When he finally go healthy again AV didn’t value him at all, he either didn’t understand how to use him or more likely just didn’t want to use him.

 

Also, someone mentioned he was a “malcontent” or something like that. I never heard anything like that at all. When he went unclaimed everyone I heard only talked about how well he took it, no resentment didn’t complain he just went out and played.

I'd kill to have Gostisbehere back. Defensive deficiencies aside, he was the only one with the balls big enough to call out the team for the incompetence that was on display last year and Vigneault didn't lie the idea of a player standing up to him. Fletcher took the coach's side and now said coach is gone and Ghost,'s replacement is a useless piece of garbage that cost a 1st and a 2nd, plus the cost of moving Ghost. 

[GrittyForever]

7 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

 

Which is why  despite a notion that this is blueprint for rebuild, this is a blueprint to stupidity, actually. Nobody does that, except Buffalo.  You do need your veterans to teach, mentor, lead by example, and provide direction. And that's why having Giroux on the team is invaluable.  

Veteran leadership yes, but it doesn't have to be Giroux. 

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Buffalo hasn't used young hockey minds. They used young hockey players. The other problem in Buffalo, for the longest of time, was basically cutting their amateur scoring department and relying solely on video. That was done during the Darcy Regier era.

This isn't true at all. After the new owners dumped Regier they went with young new minds and still are. Tim Murray, Jason Botterill, Kevyn Adams, not a single one of them had ever been a GM. Same for coaches. They passed on the Gallants and Boudreaus and went with guys who hadn't been head coaches either (Kreuger had a short stint way back in Edmonton but was still an out of the box hire with alleged new ideas). The Murray/LaFontaine rift never healed and the team has kept changing everything constantly with no solid direction at all. Botterill hired a big scouting staff, then they were all fired and now they're all in on analytics. 

That's why they ditched Risto by the way. Buffalo is all in on analytics now and Risto's analytics have always been abysmal. 

[flyercanuck]

10 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Let's be clear I'm not over here saying the guy is a genius.

I am saying he's not a dumbass. There is a wide gap between those two mental states. 

And as rad said, to behave as though he hasn't had some terrible injury luck and as a result has had to make things up as he's gone is disingenuous. 

 

People are angry at the way the season has gone, I am too.

To act as though it is by design because the GM is Kramer making sausages is a great visual but not accurate. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

GM Kramer has 3 playoff wins in his 12 year history as a gm. That's 3 more than the Buffalo Sabres have in their last 12 years. The Sabres, in that span, are arguably the worst team in hockey history. I don't know how anyone can look at his 12 year frame of work, at his trades, his FA signings and think "Ya, he's done some fiiiine work!". Unless you're Mrs. Fletcher or Paul Holmgren. Holmgren, who was also a terrible GM who left the team in shambles with terrible contracts and bad trades (sound familiar?) won 7 playoff rounds in his 7 years as GM. And he sucked. 

 

I think it's disingenuous to pretend Fletcher's anything but a totally inept GM. Wild fans rejoiced when he was gone. I will too. 

[Mad Dog]

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I think it's disingenuous to pretend Fletcher's anything but a totally inept GM. Wild fans rejoiced when he was gone. I will too. 

 

The only good thing he did for the Wild organization was draft Kaprizov, and even *that* was far from a stroke of a genius.  Kaprizov just fell into his lap in the 5th round with all other GMs passing on him, as well. Why he was ranked so low - I have no idea... Fletch just got lucky.

[mojo1917]

@Mad Dog

@flyercanuck

 

3 100 + point teams in his time in Minnesota, one 98 pt team.

True story.

Couldn't get past a better Blackhawks team and career making Jake Allen on a hot streak.

Anything can happen in the playoffs, 100 pt teams lose too.

 

He didn't cover himself in championship glory but he didn't Chiarelli it there either. 

Also, I'm out on this. 

I'm not changing any minds.

He's a decent person and not completely incompetent.

 

[flyercanuck]

27 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

 

The only good thing he did for the Wild organization was draft Kaprizov, and even *that* was far from a stroke of a genius.  Kaprizov just fell into his lap in the 5th round with all other GMs passing on him, as well. Why he was ranked so low - I have no idea... Fletch just got lucky.

 

Ya when you get a guy like that in the later rounds, it's pure luck. If you thought he would be anywhere near the player he is you're not waiting that long hoping nobody else takes him.

[flyercanuck]

19 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@Mad Dog

@flyercanuck

 

3 100 + point teams in his time in Minnesota, one 98 pt team.

True story.

Couldn't get past a better Blackhawks team and career making Jake Allen on a hot streak.

Anything can happen in the playoffs, 100 pt teams lose too.

 

 Holmgren, a terrible GM had a 99 point team, a 103 and a 106. That doesn't make him a good GM either.

 

19 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

He didn't cover himself in championship glory but he didn't Chiarelli it there either. 

Also, I'm out on this. 

I'm not changing any minds.

He's a decent person and not completely incompetent.

 

 

 Nobody said he wasn't a decent person. We're talking about his talent as a general manager of an NHL team.  He certainly didn't Chiarelli it anywhere....Chiarelli won a cup.  Fletchers never won a division. In 12 years. 

[Mad Dog]

26 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He's a decent person and not completely incompetent.

 

 

I don't think anybody is passing judgement about him as a person.  I am sure he is a decent human being, like you said.  And I, for one, am not saying that he is completely incompetent. But it's also hard to disregard his blunders. His work as a Flyers GM so far is substandard at best.  

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

He certainly didn't Chiarelli it anywhere....Chiarelli won a cup. 

I'm sorry, he didn't Chiarelli in Edmonton.

 

[SCFlyguy]

He's a decent person = at least he didn't shat in a diaper at his introductory press conference.  There is that.

[mkscrewy]

not really one to look back in hindsight and say "we shoulda done X instead of Y," but this is pretty depressing, if true.

 

https://twitter.com/FlyersPuckSauce/status/1480930820940513286?s=20

[ruxpin]

Secret video of the Flyers' power play practice.

 

 

[Podein25]

59 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

not really one to look back in hindsight and say "we shoulda done X instead of Y," but this is pretty depressing, if true.

 

https://twitter.com/FlyersPuckSauce/status/1480930820940513286?s=20

 

If Clarke is right about this and not making it up it is a blemish on Hexy for sure. I mean one of the things you can say about Clarke is that he publicly acknowledged that he knew nothing about prospects, hadn't seen a game of Junior hockey in years. He made some terrible decisions as GM, but I don't think he did what he's accusing Hexy of: not talking to your scouts.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

If Clarke is right about this and not making it up it is a blemish on Hexy for sure. I mean one of the things you can say about Clarke is that he publicly acknowledged that he knew nothing about prospects, hadn't seen a game of Junior hockey in years. He made some terrible decisions as GM, but I don't think he did what he's accusing Hexy of: not talking to your scouts.

 

Someone should do a case study on the Flyers for a corporate consulting training video:   How a Toxic Company Culture Can Destroy an Organization.

 

Clarke is schlep.   I have no doubt he's not misrepresenting the situation, but what people gave out the keys and allowed it?   This stems from Ed Snider.    There's a reason the Flyers haven't won a Cup since Keith Allen.

Edited January 11, 2022 by ruxpin
It annoys me when people misspell "Ed Snider," yet I did it on my first attempt.

[FD19372]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Someone should do a case study on the Flyers for a corporate consulting training video:   How a Toxic Company Culture Can Destroy an Organization.

 

Clarke is schlep.   I have no doubt he's not misrepresenting the situation, but what people gave out the keys and allowed it?   This stems from Ed Snyder.    There's a reason the Flyers haven't won a Cup since Keith Allen.

I'll say it again...Hextall did what he was hired to do, and now he's getting ripped for it. This is and was on SNIDER, in part, God rest his soul. His company sons have merely continued this process of deteriorating the franchise. He allowed the Flyers "culture" to grow toxic. This is a CYA...cover your a*se done by Clarke. Hextall was "a fall guy". Snider allowed some of his favorites to become an organizational fixture, instead of being held accountable. I think most of the higher ups in the organization need a psych eval.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

not really one to look back in hindsight and say "we shoulda done X instead of Y," but this is pretty depressing, if true.

 

https://twitter.com/FlyersPuckSauce/status/1480930820940513286?s=20

 

I'm not shocked he prefer to draft a fellow Wheat King bent the club over on that.

 

Not shocked but I'm sure Fletech hater/Hextall apologist will be here shortly to debunk it best they can.

 

Maybe Nolan had some voodoo curse put on this team to make this forget hockey on his way out the door seems that way...

[FD19372]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Not shocked but I'm sure Fletech hater/Hextall apologist will be here shortly to debunk it best they can.

 

I for one am not a Fletcher hater, and the jury is still out on him. What I'm saying is, I'm quite sure that Hextall did what Holmgren, Clarke and others asked. Then it seems they said, "No, that's not want we want, after all" when Hextall acquired picks and built through the draft. Maybe it was that, and the whole replacing the snack machines with health food. The bottom line is, I don't think this organization KNOWS what it wants nor do they really know what they're doing. Their Flyer ex-buddy was not the best choice for the job to begin with, in all likelihood, and was also probably having his strings pulled by Holmgren. It will be interesting what he does in Pittsburgh. They hired a "family member" with some experience as an assistant GM under a very good GM in LA.  You think Fletcher isn't going through the same nonsense? I do. This organization has become an alumni clown show. 

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I for one am not a Fletcher hater, and the jury is still out on him

 

I am.  I hate his guts.   The guy is as inept as it gets.  If he were a hockey player, his name would be Voracek.

[ruxpin]

10 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

What I'm saying is, I'm quite sure that Hextall did what Holmgren, Clarke and others asked. Then it seems they said, "No, that's not want we want, after all" when Hextall acquired picks and built through the draft.

 

I suspect (don't know...suspect) the building through the draft, etc., was a new direction in which Ed Snider wanted to go, but when he died Heat Miser and Cold Miser got Hextall out at the first exit they could.   It became more urgent when Fletchy-the-vuñderschlöng was fired from Minnesota.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Clarke is a great example why the senior advisors, currently employed by the club, need to go. There was no need for him to air dirty laundry about Hextall. I wouldn't want Clarke to air dirty laundry about Felcher either and I despise Schmuck. This is Washington Football Team level of dysfunction. Dave Scott needs to nip this in the bud because other executives did the league see this and it makes Philadelphia a place no one will want to go to. 

[FD19372]

6 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Dave Scott needs to nip this in the bud

Scott will get to that, just as soon as he cashes another unearned check. He's part of the problem.

[flyercanuck]

Clarke :"Look everyone, look away from the steaming pile of festering snake feculence me and my cronies have created...and may I direct you to the real culprit...now that he's gone from the old boys club,  for taking the same guy 2nd overall any of us would have".

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

I'm quite sure that Hextall did what Holmgren, Clarke and others asked.

 

You could be right.

 

But knowing Hextall and his ego you also could be wrong.

 

We'll never know. And really at this point it doesn't even matter now.

 

I will say i don't trust any of them not to lie when it suits them.

 

All I want is to watch my favorite hockey team return to playing good hockey no matter what it takes...

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

All I want is to watch my favorite hockey team return to playing good hockey no matter what it takes...

 

Bingo!