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Key to winning more games is another dman with puck skills for PP


Guest RonJeremy
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Lets face it, the only dman we have that has good PP skills is Pronger.Carle and Coburn can skate ,neither can shoot. Timonen has some passing skills, but is not a goal scorer. Mez has a big shot, but it does not seem too accurate this year and he seems to be having a bad season so far.

Its been talked about, but there is no way we should rely solely on Pronger to run the PP, he is old and when he is injured the PP totally collapses.If Lavvy had any confidence in our other dmens point shot ability, he would not have had JVR on the point and

Richards on the point last year during PP's. Its obvious he is desperate for another good shot from the blueline.

Think of all the puck wizards and net crashers we have up front for the PP ..Giroux,Read Jagr, Briere and Simmonds, Hartnell ,JVR using their size for rebounds. We have a great blend up front to really score some goals and battle in front, yet we have the most limp d1ck point shooters in the NHL aside from Pronger.

If we had a another dman or two that can actually hit the net on the PP,it will make our team much more effective and we can win a few more games each season by scoring more PP goals, of course it wouldnt hurt if the dman was a top notch defender as well, since we are giving up too many goals. Its obvious we need a top young # 1 or #2 dman. Look at how when Pronger went out last year our team fell apart and when he was out this year the PP failed totally.

Of course in order to obtain a top young dman we are going to have to give up something good. Our offense seems to be pretty strong even without our top prospect, Brayden Schenn playing much yet. So if we can get a top young dman for Schenn, maybe we think about, and put out some feelers, see if anything out there is worth a trade. Maybe Nashville will trade us

Webber for Schenn and something else. Webber is a RFA next year and Nashville cant afford him.

My other move is, when Gustaffson returns let him play the majority of games as the 6th man and see if he is the real deal or not. If he is, then we can use him to replace Carle who is an UFA. Coburn was re-signed Carle was not ,its obvious Carle is not in our future plans. So at the deadline you trade Carle for a first rounder or good prospect, rather than lose him at year end and get nothing. Gustaffson replaces Carle, and we see whats available in the trade market. In the offseason, we use some of Carles salary cap space to sign Ryan Suter who is an UFA.

Either way we need some help on the blueline.

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Why are we looking this far ahead? I realize there are issues but this team just needs to play and not be turned upside down again. I said all this in another thread. Yes, we can't let Carle walk with no compisation but we have NO idea what's going to be going on at the trade deadline... This team is a work in progress... Not rebuilding, but not a SERIOUS contender. But we were not 2 years ago and we know what happened. 60 min from a cup...

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Its minor changes not overhauling. The team is a work in progress up front ,but the defense is all veterans ,what you see is what you get. Carle isnt suddnely going to develop a blistering shot and Coburn is not going to turn into Bobby Orr. The most painfully apparent situation is the fact that our top 2 dmen are old, and Prongs is the only guy a good point shot and goal scoring ability. We need a young #1 or #2 dman, not another Lilja type guy. We cant have the PP collapse every time Prongs is out, becasue as he gets older, he is not going to play more games,he will play less games.

Schenn is a great player ,but he is a top 2 line type of guy, so there really is not anywhere for him to play right now. Im not saying to trade him for the sake of it, but if Shea Webber is on the block, Id offer Schenn and more for him. imagine our defense with Prongs and Webber. As far as Carle goes, if Gustafsson looks good, it softens the blow of trading Carle, because we will lose him after this year,so we have choice ,keep him for the playoffs, or trade him at the deadline .

Maybe we can also swing a deal for Suter since he is an UFA, do the same type of deal we did when we got Timmo and Hartnell. No matter what this team needs help on defense.

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I don't know why people keep bringing up Weber. We can't afford his 7.5-8.5 mil contract. And I agree about Timmo and Prongs being long in the toothe. But, we have major changes coming in 2 or 3 different ways. First, Harts comes off the books in a few years (or next?) and it's going to take the 'kids' that long to develope anyway. So a defence weakness is not as severe if we were fielding a true cup contender THIS year. Timmo is over soon as well. We are stuck with Prongs unless he goes to LTIR at some point. Carle is probably gone but I personally hope not. We still have Schenn as a bargaining chip but we need to play him so his stock goes up! But perhaps we want to keep him to replace Briere. BUT, the big issue is the the new CBA coming up. By all accounts I have read, buyouts will be allowed on a one time basis. It's happened before and in every sport. Plus by all estimates, the cap will go up again.

So with all that said, I wouldn't even want to try and figure the money (hence player aquisition/trade) until atleast the trade deadline and probably after that in July... In the mean time, develope Bob a LITTLE bit and get Schenns stock up. Then we'll have some real options and know what we really have which we don't know yet...

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I think we can all agree that the defense is this teams’ Achilles Hill - even *with* Pronger, who is visibly getting old and banged up. And without Pronger, we are toast.

I am not sure what Homer can do. He really hamstrung himself with Bryz’ contract. There is not much room to add anybody who will add much value.

What I find really disappointing is that individually, our d-men are quite effective, and all of them (every single one of them: Meszaros, Coburn, Carle Pronger and Timonen) are good, solid d-men. They skate well, carry the puck well, and are responsible defensively. Why this unit has underperformed in both ends of the ice is a real mystery to me. I am holding Laviolette responsible in not being capable of getting the most out of this defensive corps. There is no way the defensive group so potent should be playing so poorly.

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We still want to try and win a cup no matter what is going to happen down the road with CBA, buyouts,etc. I dont see us winning a cup with the defense and PP we have. I know we nned to clear lots of space to go after Webber, so then waht about Suter or trading for a good young dman. You have to figure Timmo and Prongs have two good years left, so we do need to get them some help, or we will be faced with a real problem 2-3 years from now. Even if we gotr lucky and drafted a couple of top dmen, its takes 2-3 years before they are NHL ready, and more years after that beofre they are a factor.

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Think of all the puck wizards and net crashers we have up front for the PP ..Giroux,Read Jagr, Briere and Simmonds, Hartnell ,JVR using their size for rebounds. We have a great blend up front to really score some goals and battle in front, yet we have the most limp d1ck point shooters in the NHL aside from Pronger.

big guns on the blueline aren't the only way to make a powerplay work. a shooting PP like that doesn't leverage the "puck wizards" you talk about; it puts pucks on net and hopefully leaves scraps the hartnell types of the league can shovel home, but it doesn't really cater to the talents giroux et al bring to the table. obviously, that kind of umbrella powerplay can work, but there are other approaches, puck posession approaches, that this team seems far more suited for. why waste jagr on trying to clean up rebounds off cannon shots from the point when his talent is drawing checkers to him and then dishing the puck into soft areas?

if you look at the top PPs in the league right now, not many of them have the kind of blueline firepower you are talking about. the top 5 right now are (in order) vancouver, colorado, san jose, toronto and ottawa. of those, imo only the sharks take the approach you are talking about.

the PP doesn't need a personnel overhaul, they just need to fit the approach to the talent they have. the flyers don't have a lot of effective long range shooting options, so don't build the powerplay to rely on long range shooting. outnumber the other guys along the wall and set up shots from the slot. that's what the flyers' talent is good at. the occasional pronger bomb from the point keeps the other guys honest, but the team shouldn't try to force that to be their bread and butter. 'cause if they do, they'll starve.

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Lets face it, the only dman we have that has good PP skills is Pronger.Carle and Coburn can skate ,neither can shoot. Timonen has some passing skills, but is not a goal scorer. Mez has a big shot, but it does not seem too accurate this year and he seems to be having a bad season so far.

I think this is a pretty harsh assessment and one that might overlook the bigger picture. Pronger and Timo are older players but they are still very good PP quarterbacks. Each is a cut above what many teams have and I'm hard pressed to think of another team that has two or more defenseman with as much ability on the PP. Carle and Mezsaros are certainly competent enough to contribute on the PP though Mezsaros in particular needs to play better in general. I can understand wanting Shea Webber. Who doesn't? But IMO we don't go out and get him because our defensemen aren't any good on the PP.

Also, with the talent they have up front, the Flyers don't need Shea Webber in order to be successful on the PP. The players they have are talented and they need to execute.

I think the Flyers have a good chance of gelling into a very good team by the end of the regular season. They have been reasonably successful even though they haven't really played all that well. I tend to think this is a symptom of still developing chemistry. For the moment, they seldom have everyone playing well every night (with the exception of Matt Read). I think once things become a little more second nature we'll see more out of them as a team and when (if) that happens, they could be very, very good. For the same reasons, I think the PP will end up being very good too.

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In my opinion adding another top dman helps us in many ways.

First off we are giving up too many goals

Secondly, whenever Pronger goes out the PP falls apart,

Prongs and Timmo are at the end of their careers, so we need a young #1 or #2 guy , PP or not

Some of you guys say we have the talent to have a good PP, well maybe we do, but the PP has been crap for the last 3-4 years. So when do we come to the realization that the PP is decent with Pronger and horrible without him and we need another playmaking ,accurate shooting dman.

Aziz talked about the talent up front and we should work the PP from that area, but i think if we add another dman with puck skills and a shot, that jsut makes us even more effective on the PP. Teams dont really worry about our dmen beating them so they key on the forwards, if we had a canon at the point now they have to worry about that too.

I think we still need another top dman, not only for the PP , but overall. Last year everyone said the Flyers have arguably the best defense in the league, meanwhile we were 10th or so in goals against, so how is that the best defense?

We added Mezarros and he was good last year, but the PP still stunk, our forwards are as skilled as any, so who do we blame for the poor PP? As I said , why are JVR and Richards(last year) on the point for our PP? The answer is obvious , our dmen cant shoot. If Lavvy didnt think having another big point shot was that important, he wouldnt be putting forwards on the point. \

Bottom line we need a good young all around dman, not only for now, but for the future.

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Occasionally I see other teams using a forward as PP point man and I would think Lavy would keep doing that if he thought it would help.

Like other posters already said, Homer doesn't have many options given the cap situation.

Too bad Walker turned out to be a bust. Injuries aside, I had higher expectations when they got him.... And I'm sure others here did too

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"Teams dont really worry about our dmen beating them so they key on the forwards, if we had a canon at the point now they have to worry about that too."

i just don't know if that's true. what do you mean, "so they key on the forwards"? i don't see the flyer's dmen being given a ton of space, they seem to be as well covered as anyone else's dmen. teams do worry about the flyers' points. maybe not because of any super-accurate howitzer they have there, but the top 4 guys are all good puck handlers and the flyers really like to include the points in the cycle. again, it isn't like teams are ignoring the two guys on the blueline and would be forced to abandon coverage if a big shot were added there.

the big shot at the point accomplishes 2 things, potentially. one, obviously, goals on shots through screens. two, producing rebounds. like i said in my previous post, the flyers, for good or ill, have an abundance of posession players. posession players' particular talents are wasted if you key the powerplay off creating a bunch of messy 50-50 pucks in the deep slot. hartnell and simmonds are great on those plays, but everyone else becomes very average. what is the point of giroux's amazing hands if the PP modus is to drop a puck at the feet of 6 pairs of skates three feet in front of the crease?

" If Lavvy didnt think having another big point shot was that important, he wouldnt be putting forwards on the point."

maybe that's part of the problem. maybe lavy is going about it the wrong way. imo, the PP's problem is too much focus on long range shots. too much of the play is designed to get someone into a shooting hole 45 feet or more from the net. given the roster, i'd like to see more emphasis movement and finding space 25 feet out, to make the most of the team's passing and short range shooting ability. work on finding ways to hit JVR with a pass during the split second he is between coverages moving through the slot, rather than setting up the big blast from the point in the hopes a good guy can beat the bad to the resulting loose puck.

all of this is to the extent there is a need to worry about the PP. the flyers are currently 12th in the league. not great, not terrible. factor in the shuffling that comes with pronger and jagr missing time, plus a bunch of kids who are just now (albeit quickly) learning the game at the NHL level.

i've always seen the PP as icing on the cake. if everything else is working, then you can start to see how to improve the man advantage. you don't need it to win, though. if you can shut the other team down on the PK and beat them 5 on 5, the PP is completely optional. the flyers being 13th on the PK has WAY more of my attention than 12th on the PP.

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JVR has one of the hottest slapshots in the league,Lavi can't seem to put him in a position to use it. Spending more time in the slot or as a corner in the power play,put him on a line with some body who can keep up with him.There is a ton of talent here that Lavi keeps on the bench most of the game. Bleacher Report: Lavi is a genius! Apparently Carolina doesn't agree with that statement.

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