Meltzer on Suter

[mojo1917]

From Meltzer's Musings....

I corresponded yesterday with a longtime NHL pro scout about Nashville's Ryan Suter. His take on the All-Star defenseman is that while Suter would be an asset on any team in the league, Suter is not a franchise player like Shea Weber.

Thus, if it comes down to keeping one player or the other for the long haul, it would be Weber he'd hand a blank check to and work the team's cap management around both him and Pekka Rinne.

As for Suter's pronouncement that he wanted to wait until after the season to talk contract and focus only on hockey, the scout gave a very blunt assessment.

"That means he's as good as gone this summer," the scout wrote. "When a player really wants to stay and just focus on hockey, he has his agent negotiate an extension before he hits the free agent market. But this is a business. He's going to make a lot of money, and get paid like a franchise player."

I asked the scout if he would consider Suter an upgrade on Matt Carle if the latter were to depart Philadelphia via free agency this summer.

"Yes, Suter is better but Carle's pretty good, too. I think he's stepped up without Pronger this year," he said. "He's another guy who is line for a big payday."

food for thought from a Meltzer trusted scout.

Almost what most of us are thinking here, at least the threads i've been reading.

Let's hope Homer doesn't empty the cupboards on suter, maybe we can make a run at weber the next year, when the cap gets some relief from timmonen's deal expiring.

[doom88]

Great find! I thought it was an interesting read.

[hf101]

Timonen also spoke to Suter at the ASG, ...........telling him how great it is to play in Philly.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Timonen also spoke to Suter at the ASG, ...........telling him how great it is to play in Philly.

I'm sure he did... But I think that any scenario of the flyers getting suter would involve letting carle go in one way or another. And in that light, it seems to be a minor upgrade at probably a much greater cost.

[JackStraw]

"Yes, Suter is better but Carle's pretty good, too. I think he's stepped up without Pronger this year," he said. "He's another guy who is line for a big payday."

That's an interesting quote, in light of the fact that so many Flyers fans still seem to think that Carle sucks without Pronger. Carle had a good year last year and he's playing better this year without Pronger. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he ends up getting. And from whom of course.

[mkscrewy]

we slam Carle just a little less than we damn Bryz, but I agree with @Bakanekimiwa. something to think about at least.

[InHexyWeTrust]

That's an interesting quote, in light of the fact that so many Flyers fans still seem to think that Carle sucks without Pronger. Carle had a good year last year and he's playing better this year without Pronger. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he ends up getting. And from whom of course.

If Coburn and Mesz are both getting 4 mil/year and both are a year younger than him, I wouldn't mind if they could lock him up in that ballpark. Maybe 4.3 which would be close to a million dollar raise, but I can't see them going much more than that. But with the big contracts that when down this last offseason for someone like Wisniewski, I bet Carle is going to cash in--unless he wants to stay here. But I can't imagine us signing Suter at a rate in the 5s or 6s. Just too much, at least until Kimmo leaves.

[flyerrod]

If Coburn and Mesz are both getting 4 mil/year and both are a year younger than him, I wouldn't mind if they could lock him up in that ballpark. Maybe 4.3 which would be close to a million dollar raise, but I can't see them going much more than that. But with the big contracts that when down this last offseason for someone like Wisniewski, I bet Carle is going to cash in--unless he wants to stay here. But I can't imagine us signing Suter at a rate in the 5s or 6s. Just too much, at least until Kimmo leaves.

Tim Gleason just signed for 4 years with a 4 mil per cap hit..........Gleason is no where close to either Carle or Suter. We might get Carle to sign in the 5 range if he is giving a team discount but Suter will be 6 plus garaunteed. Teams are paying STUPID money for average players (see Buffalo and Leino or Gleason and the Canes) and I don't see that changing any time soon.

[InHexyWeTrust]

You're right. As soon as Gleason got 4 carle was as good as gone. It's amazing to think that pronger, injuries not withstanding, was signed for around 5.

[mojo1917]

@Hexy27

Well Pronger was a lot older than suter and carle when he signed what every one considered his last NHL contract

[hf101]

I'm sure he did... But I think that any scenario of the flyers getting suter would involve letting carle go in one way or another. And in that light, it seems to be a minor upgrade at probably a much greater cost.

That is a valid point. I don't think any of us are positive though that Carle will choose to re-sign here.

[terp]

Tim Gleason just signed for 4 years with a 4 mil per cap hit..........Gleason is no where close to either Carle or Suter. We might get Carle to sign in the 5 range if he is giving a team discount but Suter will be 6 plus garaunteed. Teams are paying STUPID money for average players (see Buffalo and Leino or Gleason and the Canes) and I don't see that changing any time soon.

This. If Carle can be resigned for $5MM it doesn't do the Flyers a lot of good to let Carle go and sign Suter for $7MM. I'm exaggerating the numbers to make the point but you get my meaning.

[Bakanekimiwa]

That is a valid point. I don't think any of us are positive though that Carle will choose to re-sign here.

Well, if they have the feeling that he won't be easy to resign, they should be trying to work out a new deal now. If that doesn't work, I would hope they would be trying to shop him before the TD. Though, I know that scenario is highly unlikely with this management.

[idahophilly]

I'm sure he did... But I think that any scenario of the flyers getting suter would involve letting carle go in one way or another. And in that light, it seems to be a minor upgrade at probably a much greater cost.

That's what I have been thinking... If we loose Carle but gain Suter we have not gained much and probably lost in cap space. And that's just talking Suter, can you imagine the 7.5-8.0 mil Webers hit would have?

[hf101]

Well, if they have the feeling that he won't be easy to resign, they should be trying to work out a new deal now. If that doesn't work, I would hope they would be trying to shop him before the TD.

But that doesn't make any sense, why would you want to move Carl, one of our top defenders prior to the deadline.....before the end of the season....before the playoffs? When there is space under the cap to sign an additional defenseman. Why would you want to weaken the team now? If Holmgren really feels Carle wants to test the FA waters then he could always try to trade him to a desired team of Carle's choice at the draft or anytime after the season prior to July 1

[doom88]

But that doesn't make any sense, why would you want to move Carl, one of our top defenders prior to the deadline.....before the end of the season....before the playoffs? When there is space under the cap to sign an additional defenseman. Why would you want to weaken the team now? If Holmgren really feels Carle wants to test the FA waters then he could always try to trade him to a desired team of Carle's choice at the draft or anytime after the season prior to July 1

I think this is an excellent idea, especially if Homer is sure he doesn't want Carle for what Carle wants to be paid. Carle should be worth a first round pick at least.

[terp]

That's what I have been thinking... If we loose Carle but gain Suter we have not gained much and probably lost in cap space. And that's just talking Suter, can you imagine the 7.5-8.0 mil Webers hit would have?

Perhaps the reason Carle isn't resigned is the uncertainty about Pronger rather than Carle's demands. The Flyers are in a bit of a bind.

[hf101]

I think this is an excellent idea, especially if Homer is sure he doesn't want Carle for what Carle wants to be paid. Carle should be worth a first round pick at least.

Exactly. Why can't Homer play the same FA game to other GMs?

[Vanflyer]

@Hexy27

"You're right. As soon as Gleason got 4 carle was as good as gone. It's amazing to think that pronger, injuries not withstanding, was signed for around 5."

I am not sure that I agree with the Gleason part that Carle is gone. There are 17 dmen in the NHL that are age 26-29 (I removed the top three because Carle will never get their money):

Player Pos Team Age Length Amount

11 Seabrook, Brent

[flyercanuck]

That's what I have been thinking... If we loose Carle but gain Suter we have not gained much and probably lost in cap space. And that's just talking Suter, can you imagine the 7.5-8.0 mil Webers hit would have?

The difference being Weber would be the best defenceman the Flyers have ever had. He can play in every situation at both ends of the ice and gobble up huge minutes. Picture a younger Pronger who can actually skate.

Weber just wants to have a shot at the cup. He might stay in Nashville if they prove they are serious. If not, he may sign with a competetive franchise for a little lower than your numbers for length.

[flyercanuck]

But that doesn't make any sense, why would you want to move Carl, one of our top defenders prior to the deadline.....before the end of the season....before the playoffs? When there is space under the cap to sign an additional defenseman. Why would you want to weaken the team now? If Holmgren really feels Carle wants to test the FA waters then he could always try to trade him to a desired team of Carle's choice at the draft or anytime after the season prior to July 1

Trading Carle after the season would get you a 3rd. Trading him at the deadline could get you a heck of a prospect or a first rounder, or both... depending on the needs of a team. Boston gave up Colbourne AND a 1st for Kaberle, won a cup in spite of his horrid play, then let him walk.