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Hopelessness by Charlie O'Connor


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10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

But nope they really really wanted their guy in there Berube so Lavy had to go.

 

All the issues from the dry Islands days and misteps by management with Bryz and just got rid of that bum before that season and well Lavvy was the sacrificial lamb.

 

Anyone who is spending any time thinking about what "Hextall" did to the organization really needs to take a step back and see the woeful mess that Holmgren created.

 

Remember needing to get rid of VLC's cap hit? Signing the Ghost of Scott Hartnell to an extension (with NMC!)? Recklessly pursuing Suter and Parise and letting Jagr and Carle walk for nothing? Andrew freaking MacDonald?

 

These are the tips of a Very Large Iceberg. They've been shuffling deck chairs ever since...

 

Hall. of. Fame.

 

#legendary

Edited by radoran
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15 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Oh, I know, that's what I accused you of!  I thought Sharp was never going to amount to anything!

 

Pretty sure I was disappointed he never got a shot here and they gave up too soon for too little.

 

Which is among my long litany of flaws in their phillyosophy...

 

:5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

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@radoran

 

Just curious - did you (or do you now) see the Hextall as GM years as a departure from the "phillyosophy?" Does Hextall represent 4-1/2 years of trying a new way?

 

I think you can tell I'm not referring to X-pick or Y-trade. Hextall made some great ones and some not-so-great ones. But the strategy - the way the Flyers approached building an NHL team...did that change in your opinion under Hextall?

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7 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

@radoran

 

Just curious - did you (or do you now) see the Hextall as GM years as a departure from the "phillyosophy?" Does Hextall represent 4-1/2 years of trying a new way?

 

I think you can tell I'm not referring to X-pick or Y-trade. Hextall made some great ones and some not-so-great ones. But the strategy - the way the Flyers approached building an NHL team...did that change in your opinion under Hextall?

 

To me, the Flyers' overall organization* philosophy* is to "make the playoffs and anything can happen".

 

Hextall brought more of a "draft and develop" aspect to it (There was the anecdote about Hextall asking Homer how many Phantoms were Flyer draft picks and the answer was "basically none." That certainly changed.), but overall the general tenor of "make the playoffs and anything can happen" was still there.

 

The early part of his tenure was trying to get out from under a lot of mess from Homer - Hartnell, VLC, Streit, MacDonald, etc. - and acquiring assets for the draft - picks that became Frost, Konecny, for example.

 

The unfortunate thing is that when he had cleared out the cap space and was ready to bring in a top flight FA, the "best FA available" was JVR (Tavares wouldn't sign with the Flyers). Which dovetails with another maddening Flyer tendency - to sign long term deals to fill short term needs. There wasn't a "need" to get JVR beyond the concept that a scoring winger could help "make the playoffs and anything could happen" but there was a five year, $35M deal...

 

For me, the Flyers need to focus on the right move at the right time rather than "we need a 2C next season, so a seven year deal, $50M deal it is!" They weren't "in on" Tavares (a player I'm not enamored with) nor did they take the Big Swing at Panarin. Instead they got JVR and Hayes in large part because they had to be seen to be "doing something to be competitive."

 

In essence, Hextall tried to "split the baby" by building from within while still trying to "make the playoffs so anything can happen!"

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I agree almost 100% with rad.  It's what I referred to as Hextall being half-pregnant.  Trying to fix things but not going all the way or admitting that things needed to be fixed in the first place.  I assume he was trying to keep Clarke and Holmgren happy and maintain the Flyers' belief that they are an elite franchise, but I bet he knew the score.

 

The things I would criticize Hextall for:

  1. Retooling, not rebuilding (or not pushing back on this).  It also meant the teams assets were not aligned on the same cycle (i.e. the Giroux/Voracek/Simmonds/Schenn were over the hill/gone by the time the kids were ready).
  2. None of his picks appear to be perennial all-stars.
  3. He believed his own shiz when he signed JVR - I think he saw his picks starting to percolate up and do well and believed the team was ready to take the next step.  They were not, because of 1 and 2.
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23 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Retooling, not rebuilding (or not pushing back on this).  It also meant the teams assets were not aligned on the same cycle (i.e. the Giroux/Voracek/Simmonds/Schenn were over the hill/gone by the time the kids were ready).

 

 

I'm not absolving Ron of anything just trying to understand it with the ability of hindsight.

 

I think this was just Ron trying to make his bosses happy while trying to also stick to his "plan" in doing so he swung and well we know now it was a big miss sure it sucks big time now but i think we can say he was trying to do two things at once and yes they should have blown it up like we said.

 

But he didn't and they are paying big time for it now. He built up the farm system but just like any sport when you are trying to project men and where they will be when they become men is not exact science.

 

Of all the measurements they make the biggest muscle needed can't be measure with a ruler.

 

And that is heart..........this club lacks that big time and it reflects with the product on the ice.

 

:BrownBag:

 

 

Edited by OccamsRazor
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This thread and the other are kinda blending together,  so I'm not sure which this POV applies to. Someone alluded to Clarke and Homer, or just Clarke, running the franchise as a family organization instead of a business. This is making sense to me. Both guys are getting way up in years, and further removed from their glory years. If their priority is individual financial success, as well as taking care of those most important to them, it would fit right in with the product on the ice. These days it's just a business. And a profit is a profit

 

Bottom line, until they are gone, we are stuck with this

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Well you don't have to be a hockey expert one of biggest things this team needs more than anything is a goal scorer. Maybe even two. But let's start with one first.

 

I think anytime Giroux is second on your team in goals this far in the season tells me you ain't got anyone to who is elite on your team at hitting the net.

 

So that is the biggest thing they need to find....and that isn't meant to rip on Clod. 

 

He is a play maker with eroding skills.

 

But i am crossing my fingers that if anything get through the season and blow it up.

 

I would only trust Chuckles to move expiring contracts for picks and prospects back....don't take any contracts back (except if it is also expiring and it is needed to help the team out who is taking junk from us ie. Yandle to help the trade) and show him the door in the offseason with the front office.

 

I don't think Scott has the balls to looks Homer and gang in the eyes and can them. I don't.

 

:BrownBag:

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