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Hopelessness by Charlie O'Connor


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Wait. So, it's hopeless? That's what they're saying right?!..... knowing this NOW would save me a lot of time and grief over the next 20+ years.

 

(That literally took me like 25 minutes to read. Jesus....)

 

Thanks for sharing Mojo. 

 

 

 

 

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Seems like he ran almost the entire gamut but stopped short of any blame to the present regime...other than the mere mention of those bad contracts. 

I still can't understand why players like Provorov and Konecny can look so good only a few short years ago and now look like they were never much more than average. They've already been that good!  When they were younger...and they should be getting better, not worse.

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@mojo1917

 

I too have a subscription to "The Athletic".  (I got is cheap on Black Friday ... $1 / month for 12 months...can't beat that).

 

They have some great articles and insight.  I saw this article too.  Thanks for posting it ....

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2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Seems like he ran almost the entire gamut but stopped short of any blame to the present regime...other than the mere mention of those bad contracts. 

I still can't understand why players like Provorov and Konecny can look so good only a few short years ago and now look like they were never much more than average. They've already been that good!  When they were younger...and they should be getting better, not worse.

 

 

Because they have no system and plan in  place it seems that other teams can't figure out.

 

No identity.

 

And then the lack of execution and rolled up into one giant mess once you sprinkle in the players who just aren't very good with the ones who have been here a long time on top of new arrivals who have contracts the team can't get out of and they know so they DGAF and it shows and well ....I give you the 2021-22 Philadelphia Flyers ladies and gentlemen.

 

One HUGE clusterfcuk....

 

:BrownBag:

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Re: Hopelessness: "Welcome to the party, pal"!

 

Where was O'Connor last year or in the offseason when the merry bunch of goons with CTE in the Flyers' front office made the moves that resulted in this team?

 

This outcome was always the most likely, so why did he have hope in the first place?

 

I am trying to understand how a Flyers' writer could look at the last 10 years and consider what Hextall did a rebuild, as if any strategy that didn't flush second round picks for Andrew MacDonald is a rebuild.

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I posted a separate thread on this and will suppress it.  I am a bit more sympathetic.  Yes, Clarke has his own sins to atone for but Hextall may not have been a good listener.  At the time, his dismissal was described in terms of Lincoln dismissing McClellan--"he suffers from the slows."  Maybe there was more.  

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3 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Re: Hopelessness: "Welcome to the party, pal"!

 

Where was O'Connor last year or in the offseason when the merry bunch of goons with CTE in the Flyers' front office made the moves that resulted in this team?

 

This outcome was always the most likely, so why did he have hope in the first place?

 

I am trying to understand how a Flyers' writer could look at the last 10 years and consider what Hextall did a rebuild, as if any strategy that didn't flush second round picks for Andrew MacDonald is a rebuild.

You can look back in time and see where the mistakes were made?

What a gift.

 

 

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17 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Pirating isn't my jam particularly, but i think there is good insight here:

 

Thanks for the link it was well worth reading...seems the author gleaned quite a bit from this board - or more probably it's just that "great minds think alike."

 

And don't worry about stealing a young and budding writer's original work. Yes his dear mother scrubbed floors (on her hands and knees of course) to earn the money to send him to that big Writin' School...his pa up and died when the strong rains came leaving the poor young lad and his old ma to fend for themselves... but don't give it a second thought! 😋

 

 

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1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

You can look back in time and see where the mistakes were made?

What a gift.

 

 

It's ok if you can't.

 

My most wrong opinion was when I tried clowning Rad on philly.com in 2005? when he was despondent about the Patrick Sharp trade.  That one didn't work out so well for me or the Flyers in the long run.

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Two things really jumped out at me in the article. 

The first was Mike Yeo recognizes this level of dysregulation and is giving no foxes about it.

He is harping on effort and compete level. 

It may take a big roster turnover or just some cats buying into his mantra to see a turn around. But the coach is acknowledging the malaise and trying get guys to fight through it. It may not be enough to "get him the job" but the next guy needs to start with effort and compete level.

 

The other is point #5 and the Hextall "remain competitive while rebuilding" and the effect that may have had on the team's psyche.

I thought this in particular was a good observation.

18 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I wonder if that strategy backfired. I wonder if, by fostering an environment where the team was good enough to stay in contention, but flawed enough that the rug would ultimately be pulled out from under everyone before real success could actually be achieved, if too many players came to expect the worst in key situations. An entire era of Flyers hockey became defined by the brass ring being just out of reach, and maybe there are only so many times it can be pulled away before such a result starts to feel inevitable all of the time

 

I really think there is some merit to this idea.

On twitter when Charlie is watching a game there comes a point in a losing effort where he types "welp" and I really wonder if the whole team has been thinking that for years.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

It's ok if you can't.

 

My most wrong opinion was when I tried clowning Rad on philly.com in 2005? when he was despondent about the Patrick Sharp trade.  That one didn't work out so well for me or the Flyers in the long run.

 

We Catamounts gotta stick together ya know?

 

:5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

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6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The other is point #5 and the Hextall "remain competitive while rebuilding" and the effect that may have had on the team's psyche.

I thought this in particular was a good observation.

 

See, I actually don't think that is "Hextall" - I think that's STILL the phillyosophy down at the big bank Building.

 

The Hayes signing, and roster reset over the summer simply SCREAMS that.

 

You don't "rebuild" and sign guys to seven and eight year deals and trade for guys with six years left...

 

I fundamentally disagree with the concept that that was "Hextall"'s idea.

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1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

And don't worry about stealing a young and budding writer's original work. Yes his dear mother scrubbed floors (on her hands and knees of course) to earn the money to send him to that big Writin' School...his pa up and died when the strong rains came leaving the poor young lad and his old ma to fend for themselves.

... and then uncle Chester got the Rickets it was a terrible year. 

 

I have a couple of friends who make their living by writing for gossip sites.

They're really funny and talented writers because of that, I do have an outsized sensitivity towards sharing other people's IP.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The other is point #5 and the Hextall "remain competitive while rebuilding" and the effect that may have had on the team's psyche.

 

I thought this one was a little "iffy" and he acknowledges he went out on a limb on this one IIRC. While I think his reasoning is sound I never thought Hextall was doing a "mini" or halfway rebuild. It feels like 20/20 hindsight to call it that now. Most of the talk at the time was how depleted the farm team was and how well Hextall was doing restocking it.

 

To the extent the Flyers ever do - or ever did - a "real" rebuild Hextall did it. They didn't send out a letter stating that and I'm quite sure as Rad just noted the "remain competitive" mantra was always going to be a part of what Hextall could get ever approved. But it felt like and seemed like a rebuild to me at the time. IMHO it went off the rails when management bailed on it.

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29 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

t's ok if you can't.

Actually, I have 20/15 hindsight, I just wish you'd bring some more forward-thinking posts. 

Most of us know what's happened. 

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@GratefulFlyers

@radoran

 

Okay the competitive rebuild may not have been Hextall's idea that's not what I thought was interesting. at all.

Yes, he was the GM who came in and tried to rebuild the farm and the prospects, and this was during what were to be the prime years

of the VeeGees® radoran 

I thought Charlie had a pretty creative thought around the players "knowing" they weren't good enough to achieve better results after years of not being able to take the next step. 

That is an idea that I hadn't thought of, nor had I heard anyone lay that idea out the way he did.

We were always half-mocking "definitely a playoff team® " and criticizing the teams leadership corps.  

It was an interesting supposition that he scaffolded pretty well.

 

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17 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I thought Charlie had a pretty creative thought around the players "knowing" they weren't good enough to achieve better results after years of not being able to take the next step. 

That is an idea that I hadn't thought of, nor had I heard anyone lay that idea out the way he did.

We were always half-mocking "definitely a playoff team® " and criticizing the teams leadership corps.  

It was an interesting supposition that he scaffolded pretty well.

 

It's an interesting perspective and builds upon more than invalidates or questions the general assumptions.

 

I just don't think that there has been anyone "in the room" willing to call out others in the room because no one in the room felt that they had the achievement base from which to criticize. It gets into a real circular problem there. And if its not going to be "the captain" - who is it?

 

I thought the point about Braun/Sharks/Thornton was a good one. Thornton set a tone - you work to this level or we're calling you out for it. Pavelski set the mark for level of play "by example." The Sharks were actually good for an extended period of time - whether or not they won a Cup with it. If the Flyers had a couple of Conference Finals, a Cup Final, and a few second round losses over the past 10 years, we're having much different conversations about where the team is at this point.

 

I don't get the feeling there is that sort of a culture in the Flyers' room. And it's something I alluded to when talking about the guys from "leadership groups" that were brought in over the summer: bringing in "leaders" from Columbus, Buffalo, and Florida isn't bringing in a "winning culture" and when you lose Ellis' Nashville perspective the void just grows.

 

I still think losing Ellis hurt this team much more than anything else. That said, they shouldn't be in a position where losing one guy totally derails the entire season (yes, I know they "lost" Hayes, too). But they apparently are...

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40 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Two things really jumped out at me in the article. 

The first was Mike Yeo recognizes this level of dysregulation and is giving no foxes about it.

He is harping on effort and compete level. 

It may take a big roster turnover or just some cats buying into his mantra to see a turn around. But the coach is acknowledging the malaise and trying get guys to fight through it. It may not be enough to "get him the job" but the next guy needs to start with effort and compete level.

 

The other is point #5 and the Hextall "remain competitive while rebuilding" and the effect that may have had on the team's psyche.

I thought this in particular was a good observation.

 

I really think there is some merit to this idea.

On twitter when Charlie is watching a game there comes a point in a losing effort where he types "welp" and I really wonder if the whole team has been thinking that for years.

 

 

 

 

@GratefulFlyers

 

Honestly I think if they would have just put it back on the players back in 2013 when they jumped the gun and canned Lavy after a 0-3 maybe things may have been a whole lot better.

 

I mean damn they had a young team 12 players who were 25 or younger.

 

But nope they really really wanted their guy in there Berube so Lavy had to go.

 

All the issues from the dry Islands days and misteps by management with Bryz and just got rid of that bum before that season and well Lavvy was the sacrificial lamb.

 

Since I started watching the Flyer back in 1991 Lavy was and still my favorite Flyer coach.

 

It pissed me off. Because I knew back then it was Lavy and his system that was the damn issues it was the players and their lack of effort and execution.

 

Well I be goddammit fast forward to 2021 here we the fcuk are hitching our horse to a lame mule and then setting the wagon on fire because we'll it the wagons fault the mule is lame...

 

...to bad I'm at work I need a drink.

 

:BrownBag:

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