Flyers Coaching, Past and Present.

[Fizz]

Was just thinking about how all are young players are not progressing into the top players they could be.

Could it be we don't have the right coaches in place to teach the next steps?

This got me thinking who was the last player brought along the right way to become a star?

We need a better HC and assistants that's a given but we also need better positional coaches to teach the young kids.

[flyercanuck]

23 minutes ago, Fizz said:

Was just thinking about how all are young players are not progressing into the top players they could be.

Could it be we don't have the right coaches in place to teach the next steps?

This got me thinking who was the last player brought along the right way to become a star?

We need a better HC and assistants that's a given but we also need better positional coaches to teach the young kids.

 

Couturier turned out pretty good. 

Hart, Provorov/Konecny/Farabee all started out looking like great picks. I don't know wtf is going on with the evolution of prospects with this franchise, but it isn't good.

[CoachX]

Doesn't a head coach hire his own positional coaches?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:35 AM, Fizz said:

Was just thinking about how all are young players are not progressing into the top players they could be.

Could it be we don't have the right coaches in place to teach the next steps?

This got me thinking who was the last player brought along the right way to become a star?

We need a better HC and assistants that's a given but we also need better positional coaches to teach the young kids.

It's the whole development process. There's no emphasis on player development. It speaks in volumes that Phil Myers has been a regular scratch in Nashville because John Hynes said that he lacks basic fundamentals of the game (how to properly hold his stick, play with and away from the puck, always looking to make the big hit, etc....). That's something that should be taught in the development process, but it just goes to show how far away the Flyers are from this. It's a win at all costs mantra that has set this franchise back.

 

It certainly doesn't help that the hockey people in charge have zero clue. It's the same old tired cliches that we hear "we don't play a full 60, guys aren't working hard enough, etc...." The whole fish is rotten so to speak. And until a full house cleaning is done, nothing will change. You'll still have Clarke and Holmgren in Scott's ear, Lombardi collecting a pay cheque, and alumni bitching and complaining about not being part of the club, when everything remains a giant **** pool. It's time to clean house and drop the whole mantra of "Flyers hockey" and build a team that embraces the game of today - speed and skill with structure. The Flyers lack structure, they lack speed and they lack skill. They're one of the oldest teams in the league, they're tight against the cap, and Schmuck burnt through picks and money this past offseason. He needs to go and I can't stress that enough. Bring in a real president of hockey operations, give them carte blanche to do whatever they see fit and they hire a real GM and it starts from there. I wouldn't even fire Yeo until the end of the season. Embrace the tank, move out a boat load of players at the deadline and then start the real rebuild when the offseason rolls around. I'd even go one step further - I'd take a page out of the Rangers book, put a full page ad in Philadelphia media and on the Flyers site and let fans know that for years, the Flyers have always retooled, but a full rebuild needs to be done in order to put the best product on ice to compete for a championship. 

[CoachX]

6 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

It's a win at all costs mantra that has set this franchise back

Funny, considering they have not, and can not, win anything

[flyer4ever]

Arrogance and ignorance has put the Flyers where they are today. Only empty seats are gonna get their attention. These buffoons are probably sitting in the hot tub thinking the injuries are an aberation and they are only 1 or 2 34 year olds away from a deep playoff run. BITFU Bobby C, BITFU.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Funny, considering they have not, and can not, win anything

But that's their mantra. Holmgren and Clarke have said in numerous occasions that the Flyers don't rebuild, they retool. The expectation is that every year they want to compete and win. And when Schmuck was hired, he was an extension of that retool, not rebuild.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

But that's their mantra. Holmgren and Clarke have said in numerous occasions that the Flyers don't rebuild, they retool. The expectation is that every year they want to compete and win. And when Schmuck was hired, he was an extension of that retool, not rebuild.

 

The Flyers Management:  all tools.

[CoachX]

All these tools and nothing gets fixed!

 

Weird

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, CoachX said:

All these tools and nothing gets fixed!

 

Weird

 

 

All i know they better figure it out quick they have some good talent they may be doing serious damage to mentally and physically....

 

 

Carter, Ivan, TK and Farebee are slowly sliding in the wrong direction.....ok not slowly.

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Apparently Schmuck is having a state of the union address this week. Either he's going to tell the truth and admit that things are a mess or he lies and says that they're close, but injuries and covid hurt the team. 

[CoachX]

Or maybe he pulls a Bob Clarke and resigns

[GratefulFlyers]

and then what they make him another Senior VP?

 

Other than Hextall...oh yeah and Farwell - Flyers' GMs get promoted when they fail.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

Or maybe he pulls a Bob Clarke and resigns

He's not resigning, after Clarke went to bat for him on that radio interview. 

 

I think the state of union is probably going to be a lot of lip service in the sense that they're all disappointed with how the season has turned out, they still have confidence in this group, injuries and covid played a big role and that now is not the time to hit the rest button. 

 

That's just the way the Flyers roll. Honestly, I'd love to see Schmuck say that the organization is a mess and they need a complete teardown and rebuild, the offseason moves backfired grossly and that they overestimated how close the club was to convention. I don't think that's going to happen though. Just watch it and it week probably be something typical to what Clarke and Holmgren would say in their state of the union address. 

[CoachX]

Whatever he says, if you look closely, you will see Clarke's hand in his back, directing every statement

[radoran]

1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I think the state of union is probably going to be a lot of lip service in the sense that they're all disappointed with how the season has turned out, they still have confidence in this group, injuries and covid played a big role and that now is not the time to hit the rest button. 

 

You could probably write the whole thing and give ol' Fletch a draft of it to save him some time. This will be exactly the course they take. I expect a doubling down with a refusal to trade Giroux and a subsequent re-sign.

 

Honestly, the issue for me isn't "COVID" or "injuries" - those things are real and have had an impact on the season.

 

It's the way the entire team has played during this adversity. They folded tents and slunk away in the dark. I'd feel much better if they were angry about it. Wanted to fix it.

 

But instead it's just flat out resignation, woe-is-me, and what's the point of working hard if guys are injured...

 

And that comes from the excuse making at the senior organizational level. They never criticize the players. Everything is always someone or something else's fault. I'm old enough to remember when they celebrated Hextall's firing with a pizza and wings party...

 

What I've seen over the past ten in general and two years in particular is nothing really resembling "Flyer hockey." to be clear, I think the players want to win, but I just don't think they have anybody on the active roster who has any idea how to win. And having assembled a leadership group from Arizona, Columbus, and Buffalo to add to the mix maybe wasn't going in the right direction.

 

Now the same group that had their ticketing people tell me that they had one of the best rosters in hockey last season - before radically reshaping "one of the best rosters in hockey" over the off-season - is telling me that all of the quit in this team will just go away if Ryan Ellis can come out and play.

 

I like Ryan Ellis fine, but that's an awful lot to be putting on one guy who's played four games for the franchise. And doesn't reflect terribly well on the guys running around with letters on their sweaters.

 

#legendary

[GratefulFlyers]

8 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

they're We're all disappointed with how the season has turned out they but we still have confidence in this group, injuries and covid played a big role and that now is not the time to hit the rest button. 

 

I believe you nailed it - a few edits aside this is just what Fletcher will say.

 

I'm sure everyone is disappointed and injuries and Covid have played a big part in the results. But the reset button...there's where it gets interesting.

 

 

[pilldoc]

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

Or maybe he pulls a Bob Clarke and resigns

 

One can only hope .......  but we all know that won't happen .....

Edited January 24, 2022 by pilldoc

[flyercanuck]

11 hours ago, CoachX said:

Or maybe he pulls a Bob Clarke and resigns

 

I'd like to see them pull a Bob Clarke and start cutting off digits for stupid trades and signings.

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, CoachX said:

Or maybe he pulls a Bob Clarke and resigns

 

Then Holmgren would just take over....

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

It's the way the entire team has played during this adversity. They folded tents and slunk away in the dark. I'd feel much better if they were angry about it. Wanted to fix it.

 

But instead it's just flat out resignation, woe-is-me, and what's the point of working hard if guys are injured...

 

 

I agree it looks like a "fk it" attitude and I'm sure that creeps into everybody in the O&B during the games. But I don't believe it's the overriding sentiment on the team. But I don't mean to strawman you - I know you didn't say it was their primary motivation, to just quit on each other. I'm saying it plays a small part not a big one.

 

I think Yeo was onto something after the Buffalo game when he said - paraphrasing - some guys aren't doing their job very well, which makes it hard for the rest to read off them. There's a lot of truth in that.

 

Being able to read off each other is huge and when guys are cheating - for one reason or another - it's almost impossible to do. The couple guys who are playing responsibly see Ristolainan bite on a tiny head-fake, or Sanheim get pressured and immediately flip to center...there's a ton of examples... the point being I think these weak plays affect the better players in a big way and it just kills them. So they start to cheat on their assignments a bit...which only breaks things down quicker...whatever structure they might've had is toast...the ol' snowball effect...

 

I'd bet my last dollar they are angry about the results and I'm sure guys are pissed off at each other. When things get this bad on a team the only thing you can do (after firing the coach) is to make a Big Trade. It's rotten timing with the TD coming up but it almost has to be done this week.

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I agree it looks like a "fk it" attitude and I'm sure that creeps into everybody in the O&B during the games. But I don't believe it's the overriding sentiment on the team.

 

I think that the overall fragility is obvious - and is being references by, of all things, the television folks between periods.

 

I don't think they are primarily trying to quit on each other. Again, I think they want to win. I just don't think they have a clear idea how to make that happen and we're seeing where the slightest bit of adversity makes the snowball effect you mention into an avalanche.

 

And it's not just this season. We saw it at the end of last season as well when it was again the Sabres that just blew them completely off the ice. Twice. Quite frankly, it goes back further than that.

 

They've fired the coach. They made a huge revision to the roster. They're still doing exactly the same things.

 

To your point, they need (another) major shake up. Like an exorcism. Or a heart implant...

[GratefulFlyers]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

To your point, they need (another) major shake up. Like an exorcism. Or a heart implant...

 

Truly. Something, something big has to happen. The standard move is to make a Big Splash Trade but considering their PO hopes are all but gone - and the TD coming up in a month - what's the point?

 

Yeo made a lot of sense with his "makes it hard to read off each other" observation. I guess we'll see how much sense he  really has once Yandle breaks the ironman record. 

[mojo1917]

17 minutes ago, radoran said:

To your point, they need (another) major shake up. Like an exorcism. Or a heart implant...

I wonder what Ol' Jason Smith could do with the D-corps?

Why not at least try that. 

All that needs done is rent an apartment near Vorhees for him. He's already in the "system".

Right now, Yeo has the video guy and Sticky the Clown on the bench with him.

Why not try to coach up Provorov, Sanheim and York... that could still become a decent defense corps with some, you know, coaching.

 

There should be a lot of guys on new teams by the draft too.  A. Lot.

 

Who is Dave Scott's boss? someone needs to direct that person's attention to the monkey ****** a football that Flyers organization has become. 

The C suite needs cleaned and bleached and restocked with people that give a hoot about hockey. 

 

These dogs have been beaten so much, the "heart narrative" rings hollow.

Bearing down, trying harder...that isn't fixing what's wrong. 

Many Moons ago I played on two teams that were "flyers bad". It sucks knowing you're not good enough and you're the kid still trying. That's where this group is, they're broken and beaten mentally. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by mojo1917

[CoachX]

One thing they are never short on, excuses. Or, maybe that just applies to our forum analysis. There have been trades. There have been firings. There have been roster make overs.

 

The team just isn't good. Some players might be, but as a team, they aren't. I suspect there are personality differences in the locker room that are significant. I suspect alot of finger pointing,  which in my mind directly causes the fragility and collapses. My last thought, and the first person who pops in my mind is JVR, this is a business. These guys play for money. Some, lots of it. If the team sucks, they still get paid, so why bother. Others might want out (JVR, Giroux, Coots) entirely. As bad as they are, you don't have to do much to stay on the ice.

 

Bottom line.... its the Players!