Giroux Trade Talk

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Because hopefully by the time they arrive here, the toxic mess known as the front office will be gone completely and a new coaching staff that knows, understands and builds their game plan on player development will be instilled. 

If we trade G and Coots, we need to try and get either some former first round guys who are in their first or second  year in the NHL or one of the top prospects in the other teams system. We want guys that are in the NHL or close to being in. If we get first round picks there’s still a great chance we pick a lemon or underachiever. Let’s say we traded with the Isles, I would ask for a guy like Oliver Wahlstrom a big physical winger with an incredible shot, he was drafted a few picks before Farabee. I also don’t care where we trade our guys, if a team in our division is offering the best package then that’s what you do. By the time we have a decent team and contend Coots will be 35 and G will be retired. Fletcher needs to go after top young players or can’t miss prospects first and only settle for picks if he can’t get players. I guess if we get the 6th pick and acquire another first round we can move try and move up in the draft if there is an exceptional player available.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

What's scary is that nobody is saying what's wrong with Ellis and the fact he isn't recovering, yet they won't look at surgery.

 

Very strange if this dude has surgery in the offseason i'm going to lose my sh it....to waste this whole season and then getting surgery would be proof they are run by a bunch of baboons without doubt.

 

[pilldoc]

I move some of the more, who should the Flyers Draft talk to this thread:

 

 

[CoachX]

I have always loved the trade deadline speculation. There was a time when the Flyers would make a trade mid season and add apiece to an already potent line up. It's been a long time . Recent years have obviously been different, and the excitement/anticipation is mired in hope.

 

The Flyers just completed their second 10 game "winless" steak this season . They have lost 21 of 26. I dont recall a worse time. I'm excited now, hopeful, because I feel like we have finally reached zero ground. It can't get worse, can it? They have no choice but to clean house....right?

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

7 hours ago, CoachX said:

I dont recall a worse time.

 

I remember slightly the time that landed them the mighty JVR...those days being rough but it always felt like they were competing, it wasn't there fault they were good enough...and those memories are very faded in the brain like i hope this season does quickly.

 

So this season is about as bad and i think even worse than that season.

 

I just want it to be over with....it can't come quick enough.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by OccamsRazor
bourbon isn't working

[Brewin Flames]

With the Flyers mired in their longest losing streak in franchise history, will their longest-serving captain accept a trade to a contender?

 

Did we expect to discuss Claude Giroux’s future throughout the 2021-22 season? Of course. He entered the campaign as a pending UFA, about to finish an eight-year pact carrying an $8.275-million AAV.

 

He was the longest-tenured captain in Philadelphia Flyers history but was 33 when the season started and clearly past his prime. Speculation on whether the Flyers would commit a chunky cap hit to him again was natural. So was speculation on whether he’d sign with the Ottawa Senators in summer 2022 given he calls Ottawa home.

 

 

But did any of us expect to be talking about a Claude Giroux mid-season trade? A rental sell-off for a terrible, soon-to-be retooling team?

 

Most prognosticators predicted a bounce-back year for the Flyers, especially after they acquired defenseman Ryan Ellis and right winger Cam Atkinson in the off-season. The Flyers still had a franchise-anchoring blueliner in Ivan Provorov, an elite two-way center in Sean Couturier and a budding star scorer in Joel Farabee.

 

But here we are in late January and…the Flyers have lost 13 consecutive games, a franchise record. If they lose Saturday, they’ll go the entire month without winning a game.

 

Earlier this week, Comcast Spectacor chairman and CEO Dave Scott said he’d give GM Chuck Fletcher a “blank check” to turn the franchise around. Will that require trading Giroux, 34?

 

Fletcher said this week the decision will be Giroux’s. He has a full no-movement clause on his contract. But he’s yet to win a Stanley Cup and hasn’t played in a final since 2009-10, so it’s entirely possible he’ll be up for a new adventure. Contending teams are counting on it.

Which teams are the best potential fits for a Giroux acquisition?

 

Consider these five.

 

CALGARY FLAMES

 

The Flames’ .590 points percentage is their highest since they won the Pacific Division in 2018-19. Buying into Darryl Sutter Hockey, they sit top three in the NHL in shot attempts, shots on goal and scoring chances per 60 at 5-on-5.

 

That’s the exact footprint Sutter’s championship L.A. Kings teams used to leave.

 

Sutter teams control the possession game and play superior defense but often have trouble finishing. Case in point: the Flames sit 21^st in 5-on-5 shooting percentage and a good-but-not-great 11^th in power-play efficiency.

 

They’ve also cooled off in the standings of late, losing six of their past 10 games. Left winger Johnny Gaudreau’s resurgent season tells us a finesse player can in fact thrive in Sutter’s system, and Calgary needs another one to improve its team-wide scoring touch and get its shooters higher-percentage looks.

 

Giroux, then, would fit that plan. There’s a nice breakdown of his game in this article by Joshua Serafini, indicating Giroux remains a solidly above-average play driver despite his age and despite playing on a struggling, banged-up Flyers squad.

 

Not only could Giroux slot into any forward position on the Flames, but he’d also add some leadership to a team that lost its longtime captain Mark Giordano to the Seattle expansion draft last year.

 

The only thing holding Calgary back in trade talks might be its ability to build an appealing package for Giroux. The Flames don’t have a particularly deep farm crop at the moment. Trading a first-rounder and/or a good prospect such as Jakob Pelletier or Connor Zary wouldn’t be dealing from a surplus.

 

COLORADO AVALANCHE

 

Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman tabbed Colorado as a destination to watch for Giroux this week, and it makes plenty of sense. From Giroux’s perspective, there’s no better landing spot if he intends to chase a Stanley Cup. The Avs could deploy him as a second-line left winger and drop defensive wizard Valeri Nichushkin back to more of a checking line, or they could use Giroux as a third-line center and have him drive his own line.

 

General manager Joe Sakic has graduated to the “mortgage some futures in the name of a Cup chase” phase. He sacrificed a 2022 first-rounder and defenseman Conor Timmins to get goaltender Darcy Kuemper from the Arizona Coyotes last summer.

 

Colorado's prospect pool remains deep enough to tempt Philadelphia. The Avs used a first-round pick in nine straight drafts before trading the 2022 pick, and that means they’ve assembled some tradable prospect capital, whether it’s Martin Kaut, Justin Barron or an established NHLer such as Tyson Jost.

 

 

MINNESOTA WILD

 

Of the teams on this list, the Wild probably have the least “chase a Cup” appeal from Giroux’s perspective. But they’re an excellent team and arguably the best fit from a hockey perspective. Ryan Hartman has been a revelation as their No. 1 center this season, and Joel Eriksson Ek plays a crucial two-way role, but they can do better than Frederick Gaudreau as a middle-six center.

 

Given Giroux would be a rental, the Flyers couldn’t ask for a mega-prospect such as Matt Boldy or Marco Rossi in return. That’s a non-starter. But the Wild could afford to send a pick and a second-tier prospect in the vein of Calen Addison to Philly.

 

TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING

 

When you’re chasing a three-peat as Stanley Cup champions, there’s no turning back. The Lightning no longer own 2022 draft picks in rounds 2-4, so why not punt the first-rounder that will fall in the late 20s or low 30s anyway?

 

Giroux would be a nice tonic for a Lightning team that lost its entire third line of Blake Coleman, Yanni Gourde and Barclay Goodrow last off-season. Giroux’s versatility, which includes elite faceoff ability, would make him a handy weapon to move all around the top nine. The Lightning have a history of succeeding with forwards who can play multiple positions.

 

What’s that you say? The Lightning can’t make Giroux fit under the cap? Aw, that’s adorable. At this point I’m convinced the Lightning would find a way to fit Steph Curry under the cap.

 

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS

 

The Leafs continue to get great mileage from their $40-million-plus forward quartet of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, John Tavares and William Nylander. They have the league’s seventh-ranked offense and top-ranked power play. But the core gets more top-heavy every season, and Toronto’s depth deficiency consistently becomes problematic in the post-season.

 

With Zach Hyman gone to Edmonton, Toronto's left wing could use a boost.

 

Ilya Mikheyev is off to a hot start but hasn’t been a finisher thus far in his career, so regression looms. Giroux as the second-line left winger would raise the top six’s overall talent level, though he’d make the Leafs far more dangerous by centering the third line. Stanley Cup champions these days consistently roll three lines that can operate as scoring units. Giroux might be a transformative piece for Toronto's championship dream.

 

The Leafs and GM Kyle Dubas could be reticent to sacrifice prospect-and-pick capital after they depleted it to acquire Jake Muzzin in 2019 and Nick Foligno in 2021, but this season is likely the Last Dance for Dubas if Toronto doesn’t win one or more playoff rounds. Toronto has the right tier of B-level prospects to land a Giroux type. If not from the Nick Robertson/Rodion Amirov echelon, perhaps someone like Matthew Knies or Nick Abruzzese.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I fully expect it will be Colorado and it will probably be something along the lines of:

 

Colorado: Giroux, Braun, late round pick

Philadelphia: 2023 1st round pick (top 2 protection), JT Compher or Tyson Jost, Drew Helleson, Martin Kaut and a conditional 2nd round pick in 2024 (Colorado teaches the conference finals and Giroux plays in over 50% of the games).

Edited January 28, 2022 by BobbyClarkeFan16
Was pointed out by Radoran that Colorado doesn't have a 2nd in 2022

[radoran]

I'll put down "They're Not Trading Giroux"

 

Happy to be wrong.

 

8 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

a conditional 2nd round pick in 2022

 

Colorado has no 2nd rounder in 2022.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

16 minutes ago, radoran said:

I'll put down "They're Not Trading Giroux"

 

Happy to be wrong.

 

 

Colorado has no 2nd rounder in 2022.

 

I should have double checked that.  My bad. 

[mojo1917]

27 minutes ago, radoran said:

I'll put down "They're Not Trading Giroux"

 

Happy to be wrong.

 

 

Colorado has no 2nd rounder in 2022.

 

His NMC has a lot to do with why I think you may be right.

 

I can't help but view him as an alcoholic finishing the litre of vodka and telling us he's no quitter before face planting into the dumpster.

One can only imagine being the best player on bad teams for this long and feeling like as the leader you're abandoning your mates.

Dude should take the opportunity to play some meaningful hockey before he hangs up his skates.

 

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I fully expect it will be Colorado and it will probably be something along the lines of:

 

Colorado: Giroux, Braun, late round pick

Philadelphia: 2023 1st round pick (top 2 protection), JT Compher or Tyson Jost, Drew Helleson, Martin Kaut and a conditional 2nd round pick in 2024 (Colorado teaches the conference finals and Giroux plays in over 50% of the games).

 

 I don't want a late 1st and a bunch of mediocrity...I want one good young player like Newhook.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 I don't want a late 1st and a bunch of mediocrity...I want one good young player like Newhook.

We aren't getting Newhook. People need to forget about that. There's nothing mediocre about Drew Helleson either. Same with Martin Kaut. Those are good players. In the case of Helleson, that's a guy who has played alongside Cam York and is putting up excellent numbers at Boston College alongside another Flyers prospect - John St Ivany.

 

The reality is that Giroux is 34 years old, has a no movement clause and will be a UFA at the end of the year. The Flyers hands are tied as to what they will get for him. 

[OccamsRazor]

22 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

There's nothing mediocre about Drew Helleson either.

 

I do like his size and game....i just get very nervous trading for a college kid you didn't draft there is no real allegiance to the Flyers so all he to do is refuse to sign with the Flyers and well wait till the deadline to pass for being signed and well he is a free agent...

 

...so why is Newhook off limits for the Flyer Captain???

 

@flyercanuck

 

EDIT: And the best i just discovered is Helleson in from Minnesota!!!!!

 

Wasn't sure where he was from just knew of him and had see some highlights of him before 

 

From what i was reading it could be Newhook and Compher (and i forget what else) for Giroux and Frost.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by OccamsRazor
bourbon isn't working

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

28 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I do like his size and game....i just get very nervous trading for a college kid you didn't draft there is no real allegiance to the Flyers so all he to do is refuse to sign with the Flyers and well wait till the deadline to pass for being signed and well he is a free agent...

 

...so why is Newhook off limits for the Flyer Captain???

 

@flyercanuck

 

 

I get it and I can appreciate that. I think it's more than NCAA play though, for me.  The USNTDP has really churned some great players as of recent and this guy could be another one. He and York really could begin be something special. I get that everyone wants tools and athleticism, but I want smart, someone who makes the correct decision every game. In most cases, if you have smarts, you have ability. 

 

Newhook is off limits. He's the guy who's going to replace Kadri next year and that means Colorado is going to have a huge savings and cap space. He's off limits and they'll walk. Nobody will give up a Newhook type prospect for three months of Giroux. That just isn't happening. 

[GrittyForever]

I'm thinking Boston is the team to talk to. They need a second line center and their window is just about closed so they'd be interested and might give up a lot if the Flyers retain salary. 

[CoachX]

12 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

The Flyers hands are tied as to what they will get for him

Maybe. And in an obvious black and white assessment you're correct. However, there are intangibles that come into play. G is not a guy who wants to tarnish his reputation and standing in Philly. So, I dont see him getting in the way of any trade, with the UFA chip backing him up. He doesn't want that route. So I think the Flyers could play a bidding war among contenders and get a good haul in return.

 

I say could because I don't really trust Fletcher to have the knowledge to make a good deal

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

2 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Maybe. And in an obvious black and white assessment you're correct. However, there are intangibles that come into play. G is not a guy who wants to tarnish his reputation and standing in Philly. So, I dont see him getting in the way of any trade, with the UFA chip backing him up. He doesn't want that route. So I think the Flyers could play a bidding war among contenders and get a good haul in return.

 

I say could because I don't really trust Fletcher to have the knowledge to make a good deal

No, he won't, but at the same time, he's probably going to limit the number of places where he'll go to in terms of contention and his young family. That's a big limiter. 

[GratefulFlyers]

11 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Nobody will give up a Newhook type prospect for three months of Giroux. That just isn't happening. 

I imagine the hope for Newhook rests on the Flyers sinking low enough in the standings and then winning the lottery. “Anything Can Happen” isn’t just for playoff rounds. 

[ruxpin]

If they can make the money work, Toronto could be an option. They are looking for a LW and Giroux would additionally give them a 3C option, as well as PK.

 

They're eyeing some other fish, but Sandin and a conditional first (based on playoff metric, not resigning) plus something could work.  

[CoachX]

33 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

No, he won't, but at the same time, he's probably going to limit the number of places where he'll go to in terms of contention and his young family. That's a big limiter. 

If he's really going to be a 3 month rental, it will be more about competing in the playoffs. Location won't matter as much. If he plans to come back, he would want the Flyers to get the best deal, so he has a better team here.

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If they can make the money work, Toronto could be an option. They are looking for a LW and Giroux would additionally give them a 3C option, as well as PK.

 

This is good the more competition for his services well of course drives his asking price up.

 

The good news if you can even call it that is well at least Chuckles can't send a 2nd round pick in either of the next two drafts in the trade....all i do hope for once is for them to get the best deal to rebuild this club.

 

But something in my gut tells me if and when Giroux leaves he will not be back next season...

 

[OccamsRazor]

With Mackinnon hurt it seems to me the Avs should be the top spot.

 

I guess best offer wins....that is IF they are willing to move him...it is time.

 

Giroux could fill that 2nd line center LW spot....and well if Newhook doesn't come he could be returned to the 3rd line.

[elmatus]

I have to imagine Giroux will be the most sought after trade chip at this deadline. We may love to disparage him here, but the truth is he's a remarkably good and highly flexible top six player. He can play any forward position and be a threat, on either of the top two lines, he's great on faceoffs, and (i'm sure folks will lambast me for this) he's been in a position of leadership for ten years. While it's fair to suggest he may not have been the best at that role, I've no doubt it will have impacted the type of player he is in a generally positive manner.

 

The only real slight of course is that he's clearly a rental. That and I expect he will only be sent to a contender, so the return won't be as significant as it might have been otherwise. But, that's still a bunch of teams who would all want him, including some number who frankly would need exactly the tools he can bring to a playoff push. 

 

Also, as @CoachX pointed out, I expect he'd be willing to move away from his fam for a short stint and chance at a cup, so I don't think it will be that hard to get him to move his NMC even with a young family at home. He has been nothing but a trooper and team player in his time here. Putting up a fuss now would seem very out of character for him. It's three months, and he's fully capable of signing back in Philly afterwards.

 

Oh, I forgot also there is one other hitch. Fletch has done nothing to inspire confidence in his dealings with other teams or players so far. If we get a meh return on Giroux, it won't be because of Giroux, it will be entirely because of Fletch.

 

And hey, if somehow he'd rather move the whole thing over to Ottawa to go back home in his final years, just be sure to get their 2023 1st rounder as part of the mix. It's not like the Sens will be any better next season.

Edited January 31, 2022 by elmatus

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, elmatus said:

have to imagine Giroux will be the most sought after trade chip at this deadline. We may love to disparage him here, but the truth is he's a remarkably good and highly flexible top six player. He can play any forward position and be a threat, is great on faceoffs, and (i'm sure folks will lambast me for this) he's been in a position of leadership for ten years. While it's fair to suggest he may not have been the best at that role, I've no doubt it will have impacted the type of player he is in a generally positive manner.

Him and JT Miller. I go Miller because he's younger, can move around left wing to center, and he has one more year so you have control.

 

But I still don't disagree that Giroux may still be the most sought after.

 

Let's hope.

[elmatus]

Just now, ruxpin said:

Him and JT Miller. I go Miller because he's younger, can move around left wing to center, and he has one more year so you have control.

 

But I still don't disagree that Giroux may still be the most sought after.

 

Let's hope.

 

I could see Miller if the goal is to try and keep the player you get, but not on a straight comparison. Giroux definitely brings more to the table than Miller imo. If the team just wants to go all in this year, Giroux should be the main target.