Giroux Trade Talk

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

I could see Miller if the goal is to try and keep the player you get, but not on a straight comparison. Giroux definitely brings more to the table than Miller imo. If the team just wants to go all in this year, Giroux should be the main target. 

 

Maybe.   Giroux can play PK, and to my knowledge JT does not.   But he plays all three forward positions and is quite a bit younger.   His cap hit is more manageable at least until next June, but I don't think that actually matters since Giroux's contract is done this year and Flyers likely retain salary.     Yeah, I pretty much agree Giroux could be most sought, but it does throw an option for clubs bargaining.   I actually think Miller and Giroux may help their respective returns rather than hurt, though.

[radoran]

It's a needle to be threaded (not to say it can't be):

 

1) team needs to be in a position where GIroux adds significantly to their potential (i.e. has a reasonable role for him)

2) team needs to have the cap space (and/or Flyers retain)

3) team has to have the compensation level that the Flyers are looking for

4) Giroux has to want to go there

 

It's not at all impossible, but the whole 1st, 2nd, top prospect thing may be a little dear for some teams. Especially as a strict rental. Compensation levels based on re-signing/production/depth of playoff run may be more reasonable.

 

I'm still leaning towards them extending him rather than trading him.

[CoachX]

15 minutes ago, radoran said:

It's not at all impossible, but the whole 1st, 2nd, top prospect thing may be a little dear for some teams. Especially as a strict rental. Compensation levels based on re-signing/production/depth of playoff run may be more reasonable.

I think you're saying what I'm thinking. I actually think the Flyers can get significant return.

 

Alot of opinions on here come primarily from a Flyer viewpoint that has been conditioned to anticipate the worst. Rightfully so. But if you look at this from the POV of whoever that contender is, it might open you up to the possibility we get more for him

 

Take the Flyers out of it and think about deadline trades involving other franchises. You know, ones not inundated with mouth breathing  Neanderthals.  If there is a team out there in the cusp of either a 1st cup, long overdue cup, or last run before rebuild, they might be willing to mortgage the farm

[mojo1917]

I don't know how the prospect pools for the title contending teams beyond Calgary and Colorado are situated. 

I can't imagine Tampa has a whole lot of guys left after their 2 title runs.

Colorado has used it's first pick in the last 9 drafts or something, so they should have some NHL ready players in the wings. 

Calgary is a little thin if what I've read is to be believed. 

I keep reading the Minnesota would be a fit. 

That would be comical to trade the captain to the GM's old team. Lots of fun reading here for certain.

 

I think the return should be better than the Foligno return from last season. 

 

He's worth at least a late second round pick, to then be traded for Evgeni Malkin.
 

Edited January 31, 2022 by mojo1917

[radoran]

36 minutes ago, CoachX said:

If there is a team out there in the cusp of either a 1st cup, long overdue cup, or last run before rebuild, they might be willing to mortgage the farm

 

So, right - that's what I'm looking at. Who is that team?

 

People bring up Colorado - more now that MacKinnon is out for a little bit. If MacKinnon is done for the season, then Giroux could look very valuable to them. MacKinnon is not at this time expected to miss the season. Then what's Giroux's role? Where does he slot in?

 

Florida? Carolina? Tampa? Vegas is supposedly adding Eichel down the stretch (TBA).

 

Once we start getting to the Nashvilles and Minnesotas of the world - does Giroux want to go there to a team "with a shot" but not a top contender?

 

I don't immediately see the "top contender" that is "a Giroux away" from being the odds-on favorite. Again, not saying it can't or won't happen, just that there are a lot of hoops to go.

 

17 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think the return should be better than the Foligno return from last season. 

 

How'd that work out for ol' Tronno?

 

Honestly, any trade for Giroux should get more than Foligno just because he's far more productive than Foligno.

 

That said, while I'm on board with getting a first rounder, that first is more then likely going to be late in the round in what isn't seen as a terribly deep draft. Which is exactly the type of pick the Flyers have been getting on a regular basis and nobody seems terribly impressed with...

 

To be clear, I'm coming at it from the perspective of preferring to be pleasantly surprised than horribly disappointed.

 

For that matter, when was the last big trade for an "impact player" that worked out for the team trading for him? I'm honestly asking because nothing is immediately jumping to mind.

 

Crater to the Kings?

Edited January 31, 2022 by radoran

[mojo1917]

28 minutes ago, radoran said:

Then what's Giroux's role? Where does he slot in?

In Colorado I've seen him projected as a second line winger or 3rd line center. Not sure what that means for Kadri... I think Giroux is more skilled but I don't know about better in that role than Kadri.

I've seen where he pushes Nitshuskin down the line up, I think he's been playing on the 2nd line?

Giroux's rookie card does say RW.

Looking at their roster, G is a wash or upgrade everywhere but on the 1st line. Adding him to that line up and pushing guys down the roster(or adding him to a 3rd line) makes that team even more scary. He's a pretty good complimentary player too, so he'd find a fit.

 

Small diversion interesting that Hall declined to fight over that hit on MacKinnon. He didn't do anything but play hockey so good for him.

 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Giroux's rookie card does say RW.

 

Yes, the "natural center" had not played the position before the NHL

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Looking at their roster, G is a wash or upgrade everywhere but on the 1st line.

 

Again, not saying he doesn't have value.

 

However (comma) the Avs have no 1/2 pick this year and not enough cap space to pick him up even if the Flyers retain significant salary. So, something is coming back or another team is involved.

 

Further, is it worth it for a team that's already nine points ahead of the field in the West to not have 1/2 picks in B2B years (with 2023 being touted as a deep draft).

 

To wit - do they feel that they "need" him? They already spent this year's 1 and 2 on Kuemper and Toews.

 

So, lots of questions and we'll see how (if) they get resolved.

[mojo1917]

30 minutes ago, radoran said:

However (comma) the Avs have no 1/2 pick this year and not enough cap space to pick him up even if the Flyers retain significant salary. So, something is coming back or another team is involved.

Who is their crown jewel prospect, "best player not in the NHL" type guy?

If the Flyers don't get a first pick- but get a guy that was a first and ready to breach the NHL that's as good or maybe better, than a late first pick in a middling draft.

To your point things will need to line up, and which contenders have the most prospect or draft capital? 

 

I don't think he waives to get traded to Ottawa or Arizona, you know?

 

I'm prepared to be "whelmed" by the return. 

 

[GrittyForever]

8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Who is their crown jewel prospect, "best player not in the NHL" type guy?

If the Flyers don't get a first pick- but get a guy that was a first and ready to breach the NHL that's as good or maybe better, than a late first pick in a middling draft.

I don't think they have one. Newhook, Byram, Girard, already in the line up and they likely wouldn't part with any of them. 

MAYBE Justin Barron. They might let him go and he might develop into a solid D man. 

[RonJeremy]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Who is their crown jewel prospect, "best player not in the NHL" type guy?

If the Flyers don't get a first pick- but get a guy that was a first and ready to breach the NHL that's as good or maybe better, than a late first pick in a middling draft.

To your point things will need to line up, and which contenders have the most prospect or draft capital? 

 

I don't think he waives to get traded to Ottawa or Arizona, you know?

 

I'm prepared to be "whelmed" by the return. 

 

To maximize our trade returns , we have to have to hope that several top playoff teams get some injuries up front and that multiple teams bid on Giroux, which will drive the price up. No matter where G goes for a playoff run, he still can become an UFA anyway, so even if he is not traded to his ideal location, it would only be for a few months, then he can shop himself around. I wouldn’t mind Minnesota wanting him, maybe we can get Matt Boldy,even if we have to throw something in. I wanted us to draft Boldy but we traded our 11th pick for the 14th pick and Boldy was gone with the 12th pick. 

[mojo1917]

6 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

I don't think they have one. Newhook, Byram, Girard, already in the line up and they likely wouldn't part with any of them. 

MAYBE Justin Barron. They might let him go and he might develop into a solid D man

Like we've (myself and othes) been saying, do the Avs think they are a Giroux away from skating the cup this year?

Maybe one of those guys is available. If that answer is yes.

 

Look at all the capital the LA Rams gave up for their shot. Which they are taking in 2 weeks.

If they win, it's all worth it. They'll have 2 or 3 years grace period where no one gives a **** about "the future" because they had a parade. 

 

So getting a ++NHL ready player may not be a farfetched notion. 

 

We don't know what Joe is thinking.

Edited January 31, 2022 by mojo1917

[flyercanuck]

As a Flyer fan I wouldn't give a crap if Fletcher sent 10 -1st round picks away... if we won a cup.

 

Of course he'll do it just for the sake of doing it.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Look at all the capital the LA Rams gave up for their shot. Which they are taking in 2 weeks.

 

Yeah, they traded a young guy who had gotten them to a Super Bowl along with several picks to acquire an old guy who *checks notes* would get them to the Super Bowl.

 

Heckuvajob that. Well done, McVay!

 

The relevancy to the Avs is that they've already traded the 1/2 picks this season for guys to get them over the hump.

 

I can see that going both ways - either they think they've done enough or they are willing to go "all in."

 

I don't expect that they have that answer until later in February.

 

A cautionary tale, of course. is the experience of trading a first round prospect and 1/2/3 draft picks to get a rental to "get you over the top" and he winds up just assisting on both goals in a 4-1 first round loss. Ah, good times...

 

I think @RonJeremy's point that injury could play a role in determining value is a good one. I just don't see a red hot market - yet.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I expect any move for Giroux will be made by the last week of February. Most teams have a good idea where they're going to be at that point. Colorado is probably the favourite to land Giroux, but I expect it's going to be a big deal. Sakic won't be content to get one piece who can walk away at the end of the year. He'll want someone included that will be a long term player in Colorado. For instance, I could see Giroux being paired with someone like Sanheim or a top prospect like Zamula. If that's the case, then yes, I think you'll see Colorado post with some very good assets. I don't think Newhook will get moved (he's the logical replacement for Kadri), but I could see at least three of Barron/Olausson/Kaut/Helleson being in the package. The Colorado 1st in 2023 and a roster player would also be in the package. 

[Icechipper]

Sorry. You can't have Boldy. Or Addison. Don't even ask.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

8 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

Sorry. You can't have Boldy. Or Addison. Don't even ask.

That's fine. We want Rossi anyways. 

[ruxpin]

9 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

Sorry. You can't have Boldy. Or Addison. Don't even ask.

I'll take Rossi, but I really wanted Boldy in that draft.   

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'll take Rossi, but I really wanted Boldy in that draft.   

I'm a die hard Ottawa 67s fan for the longest of time and watched Rossi plenty of times (also had season tickets to London Knights games and never missed a game against the 67s). Rossi is an incredibly smart player with a low center of gravity and has exceptional hand/eye coordination. Honestly, I'd say he's a center version of Mark Recchi. He's physical like Recchi and does all the little things like Recchi did and will pop a point or two every game. Very seldom is Rossi not on the score sheet. I know Schmuck kept talking about ARGH SIIIIIIIIIZE at the state of the union address, but talent more than makes up for size and in the car if Rossi, he plays bigger than his size. Yeah, I openly admit that I'm a Rossi fan. 

 

P.S. that draft year, I knew the Flyers had no chance at Rossi or Boldy. In terms of defense, I actually wanted Victor Soderstrom and if he was gone, I wanted Connor McMichael from London.  I was worried about York because I didn't want him to spread gingervitis around the club..... lol

Edited February 1, 2022 by BobbyClarkeFan16

[CoachX]

19 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

Sorry. You can't have Boldy. Or Addison. Don't even ask.

Who died and made you GM?

[ruxpin]

12 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Who died and made you GM?

 

Sadly, NOT Chuck Fletcher.

[GrittyForever]

Well, maybe his all star performance will up the trade value. Showed everybody he still has the skills when he wants to use them. 

[CoachX]

7 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Well, maybe his all star performance will up the trade value. Showed everybody he still has the skills when he wants to use them. 

Shouldn't he "want" to use them every game?

 

I think his value is pretty high right now. 

[RonJeremy]

34 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Shouldn't he "want" to use them every game?

 

I think his value is pretty high right now. 

Yes it is and we better trade him asap, with our luck he will get injured before the deadline. 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Yes it is and we better trade him asap, with our luck he will get injured before the deadline. 

It's almost not just "luck" at this point, ya know?

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Yes it is and we better trade him asap, with our luck he will get injured before the deadline. 

 

With Danny B in the fold i don't think he will trade his old roommate unless Giroux actually ask for it so he can take a shot at a Cup...but not sure how he would fair belong away from his family for the run.

 

I think he stay and signs a 5 year deal....now i won't venture to guess for how much per season.