Sobering Loss; Sobering Assessment

[Howie58]

Greetings:

This loss was disturbing on a number of fronts. FYI, we are now 6-7-2 in our division. That is hard to imagine and a good indicator of where we might fall in terms of playoff potential--if we can't cut the mustard in the division I don't see much good ahead later on.

1) Bobo: Athleticism can't make up for lack of positioning. Yes, he was hung out to dry by the D but he also seemed unaware of surroundings and overall play.

2) The D: Carchidi's assessment is on point. Their lack of body-clearing and AWOL at the front says the problem is deeper than Pronger's absence.

3) Meznaros and Hartnell Should Be Benched: Seriously--stupid, stupid penalties.

4) An Occasional Fight is OK: But, it isn't a substitute for skilled, intelligent play. Detroit is tough, but they don't need fights to prove it.

5) Lavi's Style: I'll agree with others that it might be a mismatch given the status of the D and Goaltending. But let's face it, this roster reflects Homer and his staff. And right now, I am beginning to think that Simmonds and our forward pickups barely outweigh a D and goaltending that look iffy.

6) Lavi Should have Put Bacashua (sp) in the Game at 4 or 5-2: As I understand it, this guy is our likely backup if either Bobo or Bryz goes down in the next 30 games--Leighton faces re-entry waivers. I would have given the guy some time to face NHL play. I'll go a step further. I might start the guy to kick Bobo/Bryz in the ass and to light a fire under the others.

They have an interesting test in Detroit later today. It may be one of the pivotal games of the season, if not the last few years.

Best,

Howie

[doom88]

It's tough to evaluate a game when all of the players don't show up.

[mojo1917]

Howie ,

I reslpectfully disagree with #3

metzaros has been the only medium bright spot in the d-corps and hartnell has been too good for too long to let that unfortunate high stick cost him minutes, the goalie interference call was questionable especially since the puck was still loose and 19 may have had a chance to give it a whack.

all the rest kinda hard to refute.

i have said this doom has said this and maybe even you have said this... is the chief the right guy to be responsible for the defense ?

[ruxpin]

i have said this doom has said this and maybe even you have said this... is the chief the right guy to be responsible for the defense ?

No. He is not. It's as dumb as hiring an offensive line coach as your defensive coordinator. It's just plain stupid.

As for the team, I think we're seeing from the team quite a bit better than what should have realistically been expected coming into the season. Unfortunately, some of our weaknesses were supposed to be covered by a #1 goalie and a #1 defenseman. One forgot how to play and the other is hurt.

[doom88]

Berube does PP/PK I think (excelled with Richards, and with a healthy Giroux). I think the D coach is Lavy's buddy Kevin McCarthy.

[ruxpin]

Not sure, doom. But the PK sucks, too, so...

[Howie58]

Howie ,

I reslpectfully disagree with #3

metzaros has been the only medium bright spot in the d-corps and hartnell has been too good for too long to let that unfortunate high stick cost him minutes, the goalie interference call was questionable especially since the puck was still loose and 19 may have had a chance to give it a whack.

all the rest kinda hard to refute.

i have said this doom has said this and maybe even you have said this... is the chief the right guy to be responsible for the defense ?

Mojo: Whether I deserve respect ....questionable..and I agree that one penalty alone is not the problem. But Hartnell has his share of them. Mes...maybe I am getting jaundiced. The whole bunch seems AWOL.

Howie

[ruxpin]

If you're in a fantasy league that rewards penalty minutes as well as scoring, Hartnell is gold.

[idahophilly]

It's tough to evaluate a game when all of the players don't show up.

Well, isn't that a signifacant problem right there? Maybe that IS the team we have hence the team should be evaluated in that light.

[idahophilly]

Hartnell should be benched? He's our leading scorer and has been pretty responsible considering previous years, plus his attitude seems to be great. No need to ruin that.

[Howie58]

Hartnell should be benched? He's our leading scorer and has been pretty responsible considering previous years, plus his attitude seems to be great. No need to ruin that.

Greetings:

Sometimes signals need to be sent; even for one period...dumb penalties hurt. Maybe the signal would mean more as the team scoring leader.

[mojo1917]

@doom88

What in the name of Marty McSorely would the chief know about the PP or th PK? Other than he was usually responsible for causing PKs.

[idahophilly]

True Howie, maybe a period IF (when) he takes the next stupid penalty. But it has to be a stupid penalty and not a stupid call by the refs obviously.

[idahophilly]

@doom88

What in the name of Marty McSorely would the chief know about the PP or th PK? Other than he was usually responsible for causing PKs.

Maybe that's a problem flying under the radar? Maybe our assistant coaches are not that great... And Reese needs to step it up with the goalies (of coarse he can only work with what he has i guess).

[doom88]

Reese took the Flyers within two wins of the Stanley Cup with Brian "Uh oh" Boucher and Michael "Leaky" ******* Leighton. He's not the problem. Move along.

Berube has shown success coaching the PP/PK over his tenure, and Lavy seems to lean on Berube significantly. I know he wasn't a stud player, but nor was Bylsma. Maybe Berube has more to offer than he is given credit here (a damn near certainty...sheesh).

Lavy is a proven winner, and the offense shows up. He is also a constructive criticism coach (remember 24/7, and the contrast between he and Torts). He manages games well aside from goalies, as evidenced by his knack for timely timeouts, overall solid roster decisions/scratches, and line combinations/adjustments/lack of adjustments in the name of continuity.

I am very under-impressed with McCarthy. Can the Flyers promote Hatcher or involve Pronger (not at games due to light and noise) here?

[ruxpin]

Reese took the Flyers within two wins of the Stanley Cup with Brian "Uh oh" Boucher and Michael "Leaky" ******* Leighton. He's not the problem. Move along.

Berube has shown success coaching the PP/PK over his tenure, and Lavy seems to lean on Berube significantly. I know he wasn't a stud player, but nor was Bylsma. Maybe Berube has more to offer than he is given credit here (a damn near certainty...sheesh).

Lavy is a proven winner, and the offense shows up. He is also a constructive criticism coach (remember 24/7, and the contrast between he and Torts). He manages games well aside from goalies, as evidenced by his knack for timely timeouts, overall solid roster decisions/scratches, and line combinations/adjustments/lack of adjustments in the name of continuity.

I am very under-impressed with McCarthy. Can the Flyers promote Hatcher or involve Pronger (not at games due to light and noise) here?

What about Lappy to coach the PK? Maybe a Hatcher or Desjardins on the defense.

[BearOnIce]

Greetings:

This loss was disturbing on a number of fronts. FYI, we are now 6-7-2 in our division. That is hard to imagine and a good indicator of where we might fall in terms of playoff potential--if we can't cut the mustard in the division I don't see much good ahead later on.

1) Bobo: Athleticism can't make up for lack of positioning. Yes, he was hung out to dry by the D but he also seemed unaware of surroundings and overall play.

2) The D: Carchidi's assessment is on point. Their lack of body-clearing and AWOL at the front says the problem is deeper than Pronger's absence.

3) Meznaros and Hartnell Should Be Benched: Seriously--stupid, stupid penalties.

4) An Occasional Fight is OK: But, it isn't a substitute for skilled, intelligent play. Detroit is tough, but they don't need fights to prove it.

5) Lavi's Style: I'll agree with others that it might be a mismatch given the status of the D and Goaltending. But let's face it, this roster reflects Homer and his staff. And right now, I am beginning to think that Simmonds and our forward pickups barely outweigh a D and goaltending that look iffy.

6) Lavi Should have Put Bacashua (sp) in the Game at 4 or 5-2: As I understand it, this guy is our likely backup if either Bobo or Bryz goes down in the next 30 games--Leighton faces re-entry waivers. I would have given the guy some time to face NHL play. I'll go a step further. I might start the guy to kick Bobo/Bryz in the ass and to light a fire under the others.

They have an interesting test in Detroit later today. It may be one of the pivotal games of the season, if not the last few years.

Best,

Howie

If they get blown out by Detroit, a likely scenerio, then the Snider Holmgren Comcast spin will start in earnst. If Laviolette is the fall guy I will divorce this team forever and move to NHL Center Ice. When you don't have a farm system that deveops players like the Red Wings do, and have done consistently with excellence, you get the slop that we have consistently seen the past 20+ years with this Flyers franchise. Excuse after excuse year after year. It makes it hard for a local hockey fan to get on board with this franchisee's as their local NHL team. I am so tired of hearing Snider say he does everything to win, then does not do everything to win because of the stupid personnel decisions of this franchise. Ok, let's see what this genius Holmgren does. The Pronger situation masks the real situation. Dump and chase does not work in the NHL today with the size and skill set of our forwards. We do not have an Alpha Male beast center on the whole team. There needs to be a better defensive puck control system with better backchecking and defensive scheme. The D is truly porous and lightweight, no grit or meanness. No blue line fear. Thrown around like rag dolls. By the NY Rag Dolls. Start moving pieces now like Carle, Colburn, Lilja, Gus. Get a mean SOB crease clearing D Beast for the Pronger money. Even if Pronger comes back, you get a washed up 37 year old with a bad pumpikin head and a financial lead anchor. Pronger was arguably the second greatest D man after Off, very diffent styles, but The Alpha make D Beast. But, time to move on. Tell him to retre and Comcast take the insurance money. Goalie? This is on Holmgren. This was his defining off season moment. Maybe with a D in front of him Bryz would look better. Let's see if the Flyer Homerism gets a back seat to Comcast greed here. Got to sell the seats and merchandise. Flyers Hockey is Big Business.

[BearOnIce]

No. He is not. It's as dumb as hiring an offensive line coach as your defensive coordinator. It's just plain stupid.

As for the team, I think we're seeing from the team quite a bit better than what should have realistically been expected coming into the season. Unfortunately, some of our weaknesses were supposed to be covered by a #1 goalie and a #1 defenseman. One forgot how to play and the other is hurt.

The Chief is a Comcast-Flyers mole. I have said from the beginning this franchise cannot be serious with him there as an assistant.

[BearOnIce]

Hartnell should be benched? He's our leading scorer and has been pretty responsible considering previous years, plus his attitude seems to be great. No need to ruin that.

Hatrnell? I could score 20 goals if i was on that line. He will be the overated Leino of the 2011-12 season.

[BearOnIce]

Reese took the Flyers within two wins of the Stanley Cup with Brian "Uh oh" Boucher and Michael "Leaky" ******* Leighton. He's not the problem. Move along.

Berube has shown success coaching the PP/PK over his tenure, and Lavy seems to lean on Berube significantly. I know he wasn't a stud player, but nor was Bylsma. Maybe Berube has more to offer than he is given credit here (a damn near certainty...sheesh).

Lavy is a proven winner, and the offense shows up. He is also a constructive criticism coach (remember 24/7, and the contrast between he and Torts). He manages games well aside from goalies, as evidenced by his knack for timely timeouts, overall solid roster decisions/scratches, and line combinations/adjustments/lack of adjustments in the name of continuity.

I am very under-impressed with McCarthy. Can the Flyers promote Hatcher or involve Pronger (not at games due to light and noise) here?

Lavy is a solid NHL coach. And he has a Cup with a very average Carolina team with a very average goalie. I also grew up with the kid in my home town so I am here to tell you Doom he was a good player with a good head on his shoulders. McCarthy can go tomorrow and I will be happy. No more homerism. Go outside.

[idahophilly]

I was just throwing it out there, that's all. No need to get upset...

[idahophilly]

Reese took the Flyers within two wins of the Stanley Cup with Brian "Uh oh" Boucher and Michael "Leaky" ******* Leighton. He's not the problem. Move along.

Why don't you 'move along' if you are going to be rude. It was just an idea. Didn't say it was the case.

[terp]

@Howie58

I'm surprised to say the least that you would lead off with Bob being the #1 problem. He played as well as Lundqvist and there was nothing at all wrong with his positioning. If you don't challenge shooters in the NHL, they will pick you apart. You have to rely on your teammates to prevent back door passes and they didn't do it. I actually don't think the Flyers played badly yesterday, except on the PK. No way should he have been pulled given the way he played yesterday.

Hartnell's interference call was bogus in my book and in any case, he can't stop crashing the net and doing what he does to be successful. Mez deserved his penalty but I wouldn't call it stupid. That kid of stuff happens and I can understand why no one thought the Ranger's 28th ranked PP would explode for 3 goals. It was a shocker.

Edited February 12, 2012 by terp

[idahophilly]

@Howie58

I'm surprised to say the least that you would lead off with Bob being the #1 problem. He played as well as Lundqvist and there was nothing at all wrong with his positioning. If you don't challenge shooters in the NHL, they will pick you apart. You have to rely on your teammates to prevent back door passes and they didn't do it. I actually don't think the Flyers played badly yesterday, except on the PK. No way should he have been pulled given the way he played yesterday.

Hartnell's interference call was bogus in my book and in any case, he can't stop crashing the net and doing what he does to be successful. Mez deserved his penalty but I wouldn't call it stupid. That kid of stuff happens and I can understand why no one thought the Ranger's 28th ranked PP would explode for 3 goals. It was a shocker.

Seems like you fleshed out a fair assesment. It's always interesting how two people can see totally different things...

[SoCalFlyfan]

If they get blown out by Detroit, a likely scenerio, then the Snider Holmgren Comcast spin will start in earnst. If Laviolette is the fall guy I will divorce this team forever and move to NHL Center Ice. When you don't have a farm system that deveops players like the Red Wings do, and have done consistently with excellence, you get the slop that we have consistently seen the past 20+ years with this Flyers franchise. Excuse after excuse year after year. It makes it hard for a local hockey fan to get on board with this franchisee's as their local NHL team. I am so tired of hearing Snider say he does everything to win, then does not do everything to win because of the stupid personnel decisions of this franchise. Ok, let's see what this genius Holmgren does. The Pronger situation masks the real situation. Dump and chase does not work in the NHL today with the size and skill set of our forwards. We do not have an Alpha Male beast center on the whole team. There needs to be a better defensive puck control system with better backchecking and defensive scheme. The D is truly porous and lightweight, no grit or meanness. No blue line fear. Thrown around like rag dolls. By the NY Rag Dolls. Start moving pieces now like Carle, Colburn, Lilja, Gus. Get a mean SOB crease clearing D Beast for the Pronger money. Even if Pronger comes back, you get a washed up 37 year old with a bad pumpikin head and a financial lead anchor. Pronger was arguably the second greatest D man after Off, very diffent styles, but The Alpha make D Beast. But, time to move on. Tell him to retre and Comcast take the insurance money. Goalie? This is on Holmgren. This was his defining off season moment. Maybe with a D in front of him Bryz would look better. Let's see if the Flyer Homerism gets a back seat to Comcast greed here. Got to sell the seats and merchandise. Flyers Hockey is Big Business.

^^ Nomination for post of the year. The only people who can argue with that are Snider and Holmgren.