Is this our D-men Strategy?

[touche22]

To back right up to the dots in our end and give the blue line away with red carpet treatment for the other team. Jesus-stand somebody up. Watching this game tonight it feels like detroit is a PROFESSIONAL hockey team enforcing their strategy on us. PK sucks, D zone coverage sucks. Lets be honest. Carle cannot be re-signed.

[doom88]

I fully expected a blank post.

[colorado_al]

We need to clean house back there.... forget the season if they're going to play like this.... I can handle a D that's not any good...but a D that isn't even trying? No way.

[OccamsRazor]

To back right up to the dots in our end and give the blue line away with red carpet treatment for the other team. Jesus-stand somebody up. Watching this game tonight it feels like detroit is a PROFESSIONAL hockey team enforcing their strategy on us. PK sucks, D zone coverage sucks. Lets be honest. Carle cannot be re-signed.

They have to get in their screening the goaltender positions....

[SoCalFlyfan]

..25th in the league in goals against.....

[Spinorama]

I fully expected a blank post.

now that's funny

[Bakanekimiwa]

..25th in the league in goals against.....

that's just egregious. even with pronger they're like maybe 20th.

[touche22]

Well here we go again. 2nd goal and flames are allowed to come across the blue line and blast one from the top of the face off circle.

[krasy]

Well here we go again. 2nd goal and flames are allowed to come across the blue line and blast one from the top of the face off circle.

Hockey Night in Canada measured that "shot' - 41 mph........

First goal - 65 mph

Both goals - clear view for the "goalthender"

Hope you are sarcastic, those goals are no way on our D account

[touche22]

Hockey Night in Canada measured that "shot' - 41 mph........

First goal - 65 mph

Both goals - clear view for the "goalthender"

Hope you are sarcastic, those goals are no way on our D account

Im not making excuses for Bryz- he's brutal. But is there any reason why the slight matt stajan is able to just glide right into the slot from the blueline. Mezz should have rolled his eyes at himself

[doom88]

Hockey Night in Canada measured that "shot' - 41 mph........

First goal - 65 mph

Both goals - clear view for the "goalthender"

Hope you are sarcastic, those goals are no way on our D account

Thanks for sharing that info, I'm not watching the NHIC feed. Nice to know the Bryz couldn't play catcher (baseball) for a bunch of middle schoolers.

[JackStraw]

Mezz should have rolled his eyes at himself

I'm not sure that he wasn't. That 2nd goal was atrocious defense. I mean, why even bother going out there if you're just going to back up to your own goal line. Mez and Timo were like the parting of the Red Sea on that one.

[SoCalFlyfan]

Well here we go again. 2nd goal and flames are allowed to come across the blue line and blast one from the top of the face off circle.

Well here we go again. 2nd goal and flames are allowed to come across the blue line and blast one from the top of the face off circle.

It's not the defense, it's Lavi's system. We basically play a 1-4 style. when play goes back the other way everyone is scrambling to get back into position to try and backcheck which leaves only 1 defenseman actually in position. Then add to the mix a goalie that can't make a routine save save and we end up having to win games 6-5 every night.

I'm surprised in this entire forum I'm the only one who's noticing this.

[touche22]

Thanks for sharing that info, I'm not watching the NHIC feed. Nice to know the Bryz couldn't play catcher (baseball) for a bunch of middle schoolers.

And kostopolous goal was 18 mph.

[krasy]

Now they are joking about Chara hat-trick. This is when team scores 3 goals and combined the speed of three goals shots is close to Chara hardest shot from the All Star game. Like @touche22 already mentioned third goal was 18 mph.

Edited February 26, 2012 by krasy

[JackStraw]

It's not the defense, it's Lavi's system. We basically play a 1-4 style. when play goes back the other way everyone is scrambling to get back into position to try and backcheck which leaves only 1 defenseman actually in position. Then add to the mix a goalie that can't make a routine save save and we end up having to win games 6-5 every night.

I'm surprised in this entire forum I'm the only one who's noticing this.

I don't disagree with what you say about Lavi's system, but the fact is also that when the defense is back in position (it does happen sometimes) they give up their own blue line way too easily. That 2nd goal was a glaring example of it. And not being satisfied with just giving up the blue line, they went ahead and gave up the high slot too.

[doom88]

And then Bryz gave up another softie.

[SoCalFlyfan]

I don't disagree with what you say about Lavi's system, but the fact is also that when the defense is back in position (it does happen sometimes) they give up their own blue line way too easily. That 2nd goal was a glaring example of it. And not being satisfied with just giving up the blue line, they went ahead and gave up the high slot too.

Maybe it's because Mezaros,Carle, and Timonen are so programmed to jump into the play offensively, they forget where they need to be defensively. That's why Homer got Kubina and Grossman to 'stay at home' to help minimize the weakness of Lavi's system.

The thing is, I'd be totally fine with all of this if we had a proven goalie like Lundkvist, or Fleury that gave the guys up front confidence, but that is just simply not the case with Bryz. The reason I'm riding Lavi about this is because he has to be aware that his system is not the right fit for our goalie (or vice versa) yet he still pushes this 'uptempo' style of play that encourages the D-men to be involved offensively.

[krasy]

@SoCalFlyfan i respect your opinion, but if the D don't contribute offensively, Forwards alone can not overcome Bryz

@NHLFlyers#Flyers defensemen have accounted for three of the four goals and six points tonight

Edited February 26, 2012 by krasy

[JackStraw]

Maybe it's because Mezaros,Carle, and Timonen are so programmed to jump into the play offensively, they forget where they need to be defensively. That's why Homer got Kubina and Grossman to 'stay at home' to help minimize the weakness of Lavi's system.

The thing is, I'd be totally fine with all of this if we had a proven goalie like Lundkvist, or Fleury that gave the guys up front confidence, but that is just simply not the case with Bryz. The reason I'm riding Lavi about this is because he has to be aware that his system is not the right fit for our goalie (or vice versa) yet he still pushes this 'uptempo' style of play that encourages the D-men to be involved offensively.

Maybe, but you can be involved in the offense and still stand up at your blue line. Detroit's defensemen do it.

[aziz]

Maybe, but you can be involved in the offense and still stand up at your blue line. Detroit's defensemen do it.

do they, though? the stand-up-at-the-blueline thing became a lot more difficult after the lockout. you do that now without enough support from the forwards and you run a big risk of getting beat wide, because if you don't get a shoulder solidly into the puck carrier, he's past you. a lot of the 2-on-1s we are seeing recently are flyers dmen taking a stand and getting beat, and i'm not real sure i would want laviolette to encourage more of that. the no-clutch/grab rules demand more of a stay-goal-side approach. i'll have to take a closer look, but i have a tough time believing detroit's dmen are commiting to contact at the blueline these days. detroit has a roster full of highly aware defensive forwards who take up the slack and make sure there isn't a 60 foot gap between themselves and the defenders that the opposition can play with.

[SoCalFlyfan]

Maybe, but you can be involved in the offense and still stand up at your blue line. Detroit's defensemen do it.

Detroits defenseman do not end up behind the oppositions net mucking in the corners like I see Mezaros doing from time to time. They may make a quick pinch, but they always remember their job is defense and are always in position before the play comes back the other way.

I'm no hockey expert, but our style play is 'puck posession'. We typically outshoot opponents most nights and for the most part try to dictate the tempo. The problem is IMO that this causes Bryz to not be as sharp or maybe even uninterested. When the opposition gets a transition break or a brief foray in our zone Bryz is not focused and seems to be fighting every shot. I've always believed that a goalie plays better when they face a lot of shots (which is why we seem to face a hot goalie every night) -which seems counter intuitive to a winning strategy, I know. But maybe Bryz is the type of goalie that needs to face a ton of shots to stay sharp..who knows. My point is that Lavi won a cup when he had a HOT goalie like Cam Ward. As we've seen all season that is not Bryz. If Bryz is going to be our guy, something needs to be adjusted defensively

I would almost rather give up more shots from the perimeter with a defense in position clogging up the middle if it kept Bryz sharp, than to play a puck posession style that catches him off guard when the play goes the other way.

[JackStraw]

i have a tough time believing detroit's dmen are commiting to contact at the blueline these days.

You don't have to commit to contact, you can use your stick. It's not just for show, you know... Detroit does that well, so do the Rangers and other teams.

Edit: You are spot-on regarding their forwards though.

Edited February 26, 2012 by JackStraw

[aziz]

@JackStraw

i went back and looked at that goal last night again. it was a 3-on-2, and our dmen were covering the pass to the two guys wide, thus leaving the puck carrier mostly alone. JVR was the "backchecker" on the play, and he actually caught up with stajan...but once he got within about 5 feet, he stopped skating, like he was protecting against the drop pass or something simlarly useless. and so stajan coasted in to the top of the circles and let it rip, with JVR gliding right behind him.

i'm telling you, for all the talk about the deficiencies of the flyers' defensemen, the forwards are the bigger problem. if JVR keeps coming at stajan and gets his stick involved, or godforbid hits stajan, that scoring opportunity becomes way less straightforward. as soon as JVR decided to hang back, stajan had as much time and space as he could possible want.

check it out:

if either dman steps into stajan there, a guy goes wide with a clear and open path to the net. if JVR moved his skates at all, stajan is tied up and can't get a full-windup slapshot off. i mean, good lord, that's 30 feet JVR covers without his skates moving at all. that can't happen.

Edited February 26, 2012 by aziz

[pilldoc]

@JackStraw

i went back and looked at that goal last night again. it was a 3-on-2, and our dmen were covering the pass to the two guys wide, thus leaving the puck carrier mostly alone. JVR was the "backchecker" on the play, and he actually caught up with stajan...but once he got within about 5 feet, he stopped skating, like he was protecting against the drop pass or something simlarly useless. and so stajan coasted in to the top of the circles and let it rip, with JVR gliding right behind him.

i'm telling you, for all the talk about the deficiencies of the flyers' defensemen, the forwards are the bigger problem. if JVR keeps coming at stajan and gets his stick involved, or godforbid hits stajan, that scoring opportunity becomes way less straightforward. as soon as JVR decided to hang back, stajan had as much time and space as he could possible want.

check it out:

if either dman steps into stajan there, a guy goes wide with a clear and open path to the net. if JVR moved his skates at all, stajan is tied up and can't get a full-windup slapshot off. i mean, good lord, that's 30 feet JVR covers without his skates moving at all. that can't happen.

pretty good analysis Aziz.....I missed the game so I really cannot comment.

However your explanation seems pretty straight forward to me