Game 48: Flyers at Penguins; 2/15/22 @ 7 PM, NBCSP

[Samifan]

1 minute ago, notfondajane said:

Jay Caulfield and Rob King

Thanks, must be Caulfield took too many hits to the head.

[FD19372]

Wow 5 seconds after the Flyers are guilty of air mailing a puck to the seats, the Penguins pick up a 5 minute major for slashing and drawing blood.

[Samifan]

Amazing how mentally soft this team is. Give up two goals in 18 seconds. For f**ks sake!

[Cheesesteak]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I am sure Sid can't think of a more deserving team to score his 500th goal against....

 

#slaughterofthelambs

 

never a doubt

 

same goal was his 50th vs the Flyers...meaning, he's scored 10% of his goals against one team...OURS! 

 

Ugh...F'n Cindy!

[mkscrewy]

I refuse to be disappointed by this team. We've set ourselves up perfectly for Crosby's OT dagger.

[notfondajane]

22 minutes ago, Cheesesteak said:

never a doubt

 

same goal was his 50th vs the Flyers...meaning, he's scored 10% of his goals against one team...OURS! 

 

Ugh...F'n Cindy!

Gotta love it!

[radoran]

10 hours ago, Samifan said:

Amazing how mentally soft this team is. Give up two goals in 18 seconds. For f**ks sake!

 

This is what bugs me. For all the "hates losing" in ol' G he sure doesn't seem to hold anyone accountable for the litany of losses over *checks notes* TEN GODDAMN YEARS.

 

We now return you to your original programming...

Edited February 16, 2022 by radoran

[Howie58]

I was driving home after work and thought a Miracle on Ice was possible.  Then I hear it go 4-3, then 4-4, then Letang ends it almost immediately.  Another game, another loss, blowing a rare lead. 

 

Chris Maher's YouTube videos are normally close to or low double-digits. Tonight's was about 4 minutes.  Yeo's post-game was about the same. Trying to find positives is hard. Watching would have angered me!

[tucson83]

8 hours ago, radoran said:

 

This is what bugs me. For all the "hates losing" in ol' G he sure doesn't seem to hold anyone accountable for the litany of losses over *checks notes* TEN GODDAMN YEARS.

 

We now return you to your original programming...

and he's the heart of this team during a 12 game losing streak? more like kryptonite than superman.

Edited February 16, 2022 by radoran

[notfondajane]

59 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

and he's the heart of this team during a 12 game losing streak? more like kryptonite than superman.

I'm guessing losing a ton of heartbreaking games would do that! 

H I w long has Giroux been in the league? He maybe tired and frustrated with what is happening in Philadelphia? I'm guessing that is the reason.!

[GratefulFlyers]

In the last 10 years - basically Giroux's tenure with the Flyers - 5 players have more points than him: Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, Marchand and Tavares.

 

Maybe Giroux will do better once he's traded.

[mojo1917]

9 hours ago, radoran said:

 

This is what bugs me. For all the "hates losing" in ol' G he sure doesn't seem to hold anyone accountable for the litany of losses over *checks notes* TEN GODDAMN YEARS.

 

We now return you to your original programming...

If you're not that guy, don't try to be that guy. 

 

[notfondajane]

15 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

In the last 10 years - basically Giroux's tenure with the Flyers - 5 players have more points than him: Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, Marchand and Tavares.

 

Maybe Giroux will do better once he's traded.

Alot of good that would do the Flyers. Hopefully for the Flyers, the return would give them the spark the need if 

Group is traded!

 

[radoran]

14 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

In the last 10 years - basically Giroux's tenure with the Flyers - 5 players have more points than him: Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, Marchand and Tavares.

 

Maybe Giroux will do better once he's traded.

 

Four of those guys have actual, you know, Cups on their resume. And the other is Tavares, who is also among the most overrated players in the league. He won a playoff round, too, once.

 

Over the past 10 years, points per games played he's 24th. Points per 60 minutes, he's 36th. Goals per game, 83rd.

 

Playoff scoring - 224th.

 

Is he a good player? Sure. Has he been terribly miscast and badly served by the franchise? Yes.

 

But when they talk about the best players in the league for the 2010s, is he going to be in the top five of anyone's list outside of Philadelphia?

 

For that matter, is he on yours?

 

What's the most memorable thing about his tenure as captain of the Flyers? That thing you say "Remember that? Wow!"

 

As it is, he's the face of the franchise for the worst ten year period in it's history and the most impactful thing he's likely to have done over that time is whatever comes back when he's traded.

 

I don't "hate the player" - I'm tired of him.

 

I wish him well in his future endeavors.

[flyercanuck]

21 minutes ago, notfondajane said:

 Hopefully for the Flyers, the return would give them the spark the need 

 

 

 

 The spark the Flyers need...

 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

I don't "hate the player" - I'm tired of him.

 

I get it. For me it's kind of the opposite. No matter how bad the Flyers get Giroux is always one bright spot.

 

Your criticisms and comparisons - zero Cups, his PO numbers etc. - they're all dependent on the team around him. It's a lot like saying Carter Hart is a below average goalie bc his numbers suck. When Giroux has line mates that can keep up with him he's fun to watch. He's hasn't lost a step and should fetch a very good return. Fletcher has to hit a home run on this trade. Like the broken clock we have to hope he gets it right this time.

[GratefulFlyers]

15 hours ago, Samifan said:

Philadelphia Flyers Head Coaching Manual

 

Chapter 3.2.1

     If we score a goal you must immediately put out the 4th line to kill any momentum thus allowing the opponent to score within one minute.

 

I blamed Bunaman on that goal but you were right. And you were even more right after Guentzel's goal, when he made it 4-3. Here comes the 4th line again...and 18 secs later the Pens score, tie game. Yeo had 2 other lines rested and he trots out the AHL line at that critical moment. Stupid stupid.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Watching would have angered me!

 

That is why i suggest not doing so i have watched maybe 10 minutes since it has turned 2022.

 

It doesn't take you long to just turn it off because i refuse to let these clowns make me angry.

 

It works...

[radoran]

48 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

I get it. For me it's kind of the opposite. No matter how bad the Flyers get Giroux is always one bright spot.

 

Your criticisms and comparisons - zero Cups, his PO numbers etc. - they're all dependent on the team around him. It's a lot like saying Carter Hart is a below average goalie bc his numbers suck. When Giroux has line mates that can keep up with him he's fun to watch. He's hasn't lost a step and should fetch a very good return. Fletcher has to hit a home run on this trade. Like the broken clock we have to hope he gets it right this time.

 

I get it - I just haven't seen him elevate the players around him consistently. He's got to have guys around him. I don't think he makes the players around him significantly better.

 

To me, that's a little different than a goalie who can be hung out to dry by the team in front of him.

 

Again, he's been terribly badly served by this organization*. No question. He's not a captain, but would make a great A as a playmaking wing which is what he should have been had the Flyers not "won the trades" oh those many years ago.

 

But he's (unfortunately) the face of mediocrity, failure, and frustration for the past 10 years while parroting the mantra that this team has been "a playoff team".  #notallhisfault but also #notnothisfault.

 

I had what I think is my final, psychotic break with him when Buffalo blew them out twice in a span of two weeks last season sandwiched around going 1-1-1 against the Bruins while "chasing a playoff spot."

 

Buffalo. A team with 15 wins, and a -61 goal differential. Outscored them 11-3.

 

He had one assist in those five games.

[GratefulFlyers]

22 hours ago, radoran said:

I just haven't seen him elevate the players around him consistently. He's got to have guys around him. I don't think he makes the players around him significantly better

 

Well that's a thoroughly subjective portrait. Nothing wrong with it, it's a perfectly valid opinion, just like the captain thing. Your opinion is he's "not a captain" but as fans we can't know his value as a captain. You really have to be "in the room where it happens" to judge whether his C means anything to the team. And a C or an A? I don't know how much it matters. "Leadership" certainly matters but for fans it's impossible to judge a player's leadership abilities. 

 

You can't say, "just look at the results" because "the results" are team-dependent, right? I think the Hart analogy I used is appropriate, but I can see some daylight since you pointed it out. A goalie is a special case; his numbers don't translate exactly to a skater's. But still, Giroux's numbers are "elite" whichever way you slice them.

[mojo1917]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:01 PM, radoran said:

I just haven't seen him elevate the players around him consistently. He's got to have guys around him. I don't think he makes the players around him significantly better.

I don't buy your take on this. 

I don't think you're committed to it either. 

This team has been "not good" for the majority of his tenure.

When they've made the playoffs, it was largely because he dragged a bunch stiffs with him. 

 

He's elevated this team from detritus to mediocrity. 

There was literally no other reason to watch Flyers hockey after 2013- he has been it. 

He helped make Wayne Simmonds a 25 goal scorer.

 

On 2/16/2022 at 12:01 PM, radoran said:

I had what I think is my final, psychotic break with him when Buffalo blew them out twice in a span of two weeks last season sandwiched around going 1-1-1 against the Bruins while "chasing a playoff spot."

 

This- and I think this is why you said that /\

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

He's elevated this team from detritus to mediocrity. 

 

Well one thing is for sure we'll see what's up when he is gone.

 

I'm good seeing that for the rest of the year....let the kids play and i won't care if they don't score another goal the rest of the season i want to see how they look on the ice.

 

If we can get rid of JVR that would be huge but i won't get my hopes up.

 

Farabee Coots Konecny

Gaudreau Hayes Atkinson

Lindblom Frost  Macewen

Laczynski Cates Allison

 

Provorov Ellis

Sanheim Miller

York Zamula

 

Hart

Sandstrom

 

Looks good to me see what happens??? 0-82-0-0

[radoran]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't buy your take on this. 

I don't think you're committed to it either. 

This team has been "not good" for the majority of his tenure.

 

We've been around this block more than a few times. I'm not coming at this with vitriol. I'm coming from a place of great disappointment.

 

That said, with respect, more often than not when I've taken issue with your "bunch of stiffs" being "definitely a playoff team" you've taken the other side of the argument you're making now.

 

Brayden Schenn is a Cup winner wearing an A on a current Cup contender. (Under a coach who "couldn't coach" Giroux's Flyers).

 

Wayne Simmonds was exactly what he was advertised to be when they "won the trades" before he spent a season playing injured to get this "definitely a playoff team" to the playoffs.

 

Sean Couturier is hardly a stiff.

 

Jake Voracek (who was usually playing RW with G) I may not like and doesn't shoot and was a bad pairing I don't think is a "stiff."

 

Are Travis Konecny's three 20+ goal seasons solely because of Giroux?

 

Is Ivan Provorov a stiff?

 

I'm not buying that and more of the "took a bunch of stiffs to the playoffs" argument.

 

I've said Giroux is a GOOD player. And has at times been Very Good. And as I have said previously recently and in our previous discussions he's been badly served by the organization*, miscast in two roles he had never played before, and SHOULD have been a top flight playmaking wing with the A. My evidence is that his career turned a MAJOR corner when he was out back in that position.

 

He's not the centerpiece of a team and my evidence is simply the past ten years. Again, yes, badly served by the people who put him in that position.

 

He's not a terribly effective captain and my evidence is simply the past ten years, culminating with a "fragile" team just outright quitting 3 of the past 4 years. And the year they won a round they just didn't show up in a Game 7. Didn't. Show. Up. Losing 4-0 and it wasn't that close.

 

Am I "in the room"? Obviously not. Do players who are on his team and haven't really experienced anyone else say he's a good captain? Sure. What else would they say?

 

Does an organization* that just put their least successful coach, unsuccessful GM, and average player into their Hall of Fame say he's great? Yes.

 

Is he a nice guy? Probably. Does he hate kittens? Probably not. Is he good at hockey? Yes.

 

I said "I wish him well in his future endeavors" and I do mean that. It is, in fact "not all his fault"*. If he catches on with a Cup winner, terrific.

 

I don't hate him. I hate the ten years the organization* spent pounding a square peg into a round hole. I'm tired of it.

 

But I don't see him as a Ray Bourque type player in that circumstance. He may have the chance to finally make an impact in the playoffs after 10 years of pretty much not. We'll see.

 

I find nothing "legendary" about his term as captain during the least successful decade of franchise history as the best player on "a bunch of stiffs." There's nothing I'm going to miss. Not much I will remember fondly.

 

No one has answered my question of the defining, legendary thing he has accomplished as captain. What's the thing he will be always remembered for?

 

Putting up a bunch of points on a bad team? Ilya Kovalchuk accomplished that as a captain. He won one fewer playoff round.

 

Other people have different opinions. They are welcome to them. And I'm willing to evolve my opinion as new evidence accumulates.

 

Get the best deal. Make the team better as they can.

 

Turn the page.

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

What's the thing he will be always remembered for?

"the Shift"

 

A decade.

 

A shift.

 

Skål!

[radoran]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

"the Shift"

 

A decade.

 

That was more than a decade ago and he wasn't captain.