ruxpin Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 46 minutes ago, radoran said: That was more than a decade ago and he wasn't captain. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Exactly I'm asking for what during his tenure as captain is legendary and memorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, radoran said: I'm asking for what during his tenure as captain is legendary and memorable. Right. And i had to go to something NOT about his captaincy tenure. So, that's the answer regarding the captaincy. Bupkis Edited February 18, 2022 by ruxpin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, radoran said: That said, with respect, more often than not when I've taken issue with your "bunch of stiffs" being "definitely a playoff team" you've taken the other side of the argument you're making now Definitely a playoff team, has been a source of many of our disagreements. For. Certain. Uttered when asked about his "hof" teammates he defended them. Any good capitan isn't throwing his boys under the zamboni. I happen to agree with many of your points. Especially the capitan part. For some reason your posts surrounding his career reads like a dismissal. Dude has been a good soldier and has provided most of the limited good Flyers hockey moments of the last 10 years. I don't know where "legendary" comes from, I don't say it. I don't know who is saying it. It reads to me like you're belittling his career . I take exception to that. It's not necessary. You're right -time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 @ruxpin @radoran Very nice "conversation" you're having here. ***shifty eyes*** 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: @ruxpin @radoran Very nice "conversation" you're having here. ***shifty eyes*** 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: For some reason your posts surrounding his career reads like a dismissal. If I don't dismiss the past ten years - TEN YEARS - I'm really not sure I can still be a fan of this franchise. Which hurts more than I can reasonably express in this context. 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I don't know where "legendary" comes from, I don't say it. I don't know who is saying it. The Flyers are saying it With every "milestone" he "achieves." He keeps statistically passing actual legendary players. The longest tenured captain. The most power play points. More points than anyone but Clarke. Bill Barber. Rick MacLeish. Brian Propp... Bobby Clarke. And the franchise celebrates it as if it was an actual achievement. He's won nothing. The franchise has won nothing. They've won ONE PLAYOFF ROUND IN TEN YEARS. And this is some sort of achievement. No. It's not. It's mediocrity and failure. To an extent that NO OTHER TEAM IN FRANCHISE HISTORY has "achieved." I'm actually not sorry I'm not celebrating these "achievements." I'm angry. And tired. And done. Turn the page. Edited February 18, 2022 by radoran 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 I can't imagine being this emotionally invested in Claude Giroux's career. I'm trying to remember someone in the history of the NHL who put up more empty stats. I must admit, he has the heart of someone at least 5'10" tall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 46 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: I can't imagine being this emotionally invested in Claude Giroux's career. It's not about Giroux's career. I've been emotionally invested in the Flyers for most of my life. Giroux's career just happens to be a part of that. And for the past ~20 years or so, I've been discussing it with many of the people on this site. I'll wager given your current expressed perspective that there's a little bit of emotional investment on your end as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 @radoran It seems for you the Flyers must win the Stanley Cup. Short of that is abject failure. Nothing means anything without a Cup win. Is that a fair reading of your position? It seems to be so, particularly re: Giroux. As much as I'd LOVE to celebrate with everyone on Broad St one day, when the Flyers fall short I don't consider them failures or losers, in the pejorative sense anyway. And their good/great players over the years...I do regard the milestones they pass as professional accomplishments, come what may in the post-season. Believe me I'm with you 100% on your evaluation of the clown show upstairs and what they've wrought the past decades. I just can't blind myself to Giroux's point totals or Hart's great mechanics and dismiss them as unworthy of recognition simply because the Flyers haven't won the Cup with them on board. Frustration? Hell yes, on a level I imagine is equal to your own. Almost 50 years...says it all. So anyway, certainly no criticism intended. I'm thisclose to feeling the same way you do. But the smidge of daylight between "this" and "close" makes a huge difference - to me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Girouxs biggest downfall is the Flyers themselves. He's the best player they've drafted in 20 years. And there's hardly anyone else who even comes close. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said: It seems for you the Flyers must win the Stanley Cup. Short of that is abject failure. Nothing means anything without a Cup win. Is that a fair reading of your position? Wrong. It's about being an actually competitive team. Not a "definitely a playoff team" that has made the playoffs four times in the past decade and won one round. I happily watched the Flyers in 1980 with the record-setting "not losing" streak. I happily watched throughout the 1980s when they were thisclose behind the Oilers. I happily watched the Lindros years. I've been a Flyers fan for decades in which they haven't won a Cup. Over four of them, actually. I know what it means to be a fan of a team that hasn't won a Cup since 1975. Being at or near the top of the division. Being at or near the top of the Conference. Not bumbling around as the 15-19th best team in the league for a decade (oh, for even that at this point), patting themselves on the back about how great a franchise they are. I was furious when the team just quit on Barber. Not a great coach (he only won the Jack Adams, which apparently is given out to incompetent wretches with no coaching ability who win the Calder Cup and are then promoted to Senior Hockey Advisor). And that's what I see in this squad, from this leadership. Quit. Fragile. Mediocre. Fat. Happy. I get where you're coming from. I've been there. But the worst decade in franchise history doesn't get a pass because they play well for 57 minutes and lose. And I really don't feel like wasting my time watching a bunch of underachievers underachieve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) * Edited February 18, 2022 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Girouxs biggest downfall is the Flyers themselves. He's the best player they've drafted in 20 years. And there's hardly anyone else who even comes close. And, as we've discussed, they didn't even want him and Clarke barely knew his name when he announced the pick... It's flabbergasting... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, mojo1917 said: See: Sedin, Henrik & Daniel I get where you're coming from, but those guys actually won their division seven times and made a Cup Final as the leadership of their team. Not sure that really qualifies as "empty stats". For that matter, Kovalchuk had 19 points in 22 games when the Devils went to the Final. Those comparisons maybe aren't serving Giroux well? I'll obviously give you Mr. Sta Puft, shown here in uniform. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, radoran said: Clarke barely knew his name when he announced the pick... If that doesn't epitomize Clarke's tenure as SVP (or whatever the hell his title is these days) then nothing does. 5 minutes ago, radoran said: I get where you're coming from. I've been there. I don't think so - because I'm not "giving them a pass" by any means. But I am glad to hear I got you wrong, though I must say you do a good impression of someone who's "mantra" is "Cup or bust." Now I forgot if this the "Giroux's accomplishments mean squat thread" or the "Flyers can't do anything right" thread. Well they go hand in hand anyway. But seriously I'm not blind to their mediocrity over the past ... however many years. Say since the Chi/Phi SCF. But I don't think they're hopelessly bad either, which I get the sense you do under Clarke/Holmgren/Scott. You want certain changes in the front office. We all do. But because the likelihood of that happening is so small, as a fan I'll keep watching and hoping for better, whether it happens by luck or the Hockey Gods choosing to smile on the Flyers - whatever. That's it for me, watch and hope for better, while not spending a dime to help inflate Comcast's bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: I don't think so - because I'm not "giving them a pass" by any means. Apologies, as I don't mean to say that you're "giving them a pass". I mean to say that I was a (partial) season ticket holder halfway through this decade of mediocrity and I'm just done with finding "good things" to say about it. 3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Now I forgot if this the "Giroux's accomplishments mean squat thread" or the "Flyers can't do anything right" thread. Well they go hand in hand anyway. And this is the point. They go hand in hand. I can't separate the player from the people who put him there. Like it or not, he's the face of the franchise for the past 10 years and his "accomplishments" include seven All Star games (yes, not even every All Star game) and an MVP award previously won by John Scott. What on Earth has he "accomplished" as the longest tenured captain of the Philadelphia Flyers? Not bloody much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, radoran said: I get where you're coming from, but those guys actually won their division seven times and made a Cup Final as the leadership of their team. They played on a pretty good team with an elite goaltender. They won as many championships as the Flyers during the same time span, with better talent top to bottom and an ignoramus Jack Adams winning coach at the helm. Division banners do make the rafters look nice and full though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, mojo1917 said: They played on a pretty good team with an elite goaltender. They won as many championships as the Flyers during the same time span, with better talent top to bottom and an ignoramus Jack Adams winning coach at the helm. Division banners do make the rafters look nice and full though. Yeah, but as I said it's not "all about winning a Cup." I'd take the competitive hockey team that existed for most of 30+ years over the mediocre bunch of quitters skating out there today, pissing on our heads and telling us it's been raining. And, you'll recall, I was actually interested in this season when it started... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, radoran said: And, you'll recall, I was actually interested in this season when it started... I remember, I was too. Been a tough, frustrating couple of seasons after that glimmer of hope pre-COVID. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, radoran said: And, you'll recall, I was actually interested in this season when it started... Christ...I didn't even have that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, radoran said: over the mediocre bunch of quitters skating out there today, The only "quitter" out there far as I can see is JVR, and it was glaringly apparent last night. When teams get this bad it can look an awful lot like quitting. The structure, the game plan, the way you win shifts and games is gone - for whatever reason(s) - and the result looks like pure disinterest. But I really don't think it is; I think it's more about too many AHL players in roles they can't handle. And then there's the "rot" of losing. It takes on a life of its own and it's hard to break out of. But that's a whole 'nother thread... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, radoran said: Not bumbling around as the 15-19th best team in the league for a decade (oh, for even that at this point), patting themselves on the back about how great a franchise they are. This is it in a nutshell. No one is getting back in a time machine to June 2010 and telling Giroux or the Flyers they are losers because they lost Game 6 against the Blackhawks. They are saying Giroux and the Flyers are losers because they've accomplished absolutely zero since that time and still expect to be treated like Crosby or the 90s-00s Red Wings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 18 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: The only "quitter" out there far as I can see is JVR, and it was glaringly apparent last night. When teams get this bad it can look an awful lot like quitting. It's the whole "if they don't score first" thing. It's the way that they get deflated in the face of adversity. It's not having a consistent 60-minute effort. It's not carrying over effort from game-to-game. It's going on multiple 10-game losing streaks. And when people who are paid by the team like Myrtetus, Meltzer, and the Pre/Post Game Live folks are actually giving voice to all of that, it's really bad. I look at teams like Buffalo who are losing games because they just don't have the talent, but are still playing hard and compare that to this team that management apparently thinks just needs a couple of tweaks to "retool"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 hours ago, radoran said: I'll wager given your current expressed perspective that there's a little bit of emotional investment on your end as well. Nah, I will remember Sami Kapanen struggling to get to the bench in 04 long after I've forgotten the Giroux's The Shift. All my goodwill has been spent. I only have badwill now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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