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Flyers season, where the Hell did it go wrong?


yave1964
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Going in I was at least curious about this team for the first time in five(?) years.

 

Injury did them no favors. Ellis c/should have made more of a difference. Losing the top two centers is crippling for any team.

 

Vigneault was charged with making the playoffs, not developing players. Thus Yandle and Brassard we're put in positions they were simply not suited for as he sought vets he knew over youngsters.

 

Ristolainen was a huge swing and a big miss. One they apparently are trying to double down on.

 

In the end, they were focused on their Phillyosophy of making the playoffs and anything can happen.

 

They still believe you don't build a winner, you buy one.

 

Which has some validity when you are adding players around a Crosby and Malkin, Ovechkin and Backstrom, Toews and Kane, Stamkos and Kucherov and your defense includes home grown players like Letang, Carlson, Keith, and Hedman.

 

The Flyers haven't had that caliber of top pair or top D. And they were competing against teams that did.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat this off-season.

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3 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Even though I don't particularly care for the Flyers, I've got too many Flyer fans on here that I like, am fond of and respect their opinions and views for me to just "dump" on the team.

So I will say this, with all due courtesy to my Flyer friends here:

The Flyers have been going "wrong" for awhile now.
Bad contract compounded with bad contract, compounded with trades that either weakened the organization, or simply weren't "the time" to do those types of trades...you know, the kind where you sell out some futures for the chance to win NOW.

Philly never really was ready to "win now" and that goes back quite a number of seasons. Even with the sparks of goodness that was shown with certain players, the bottom line was, its foundation was just not there.
And as some Flyer fans have opened my eyes to, the front office and ownership, the head of the dragon if you would, was not, and still is not, quite right.

Teams like the Rangers, Wild, Red Wings, Senators, and I suspect soon, the Canadiens, tore things down and are in various states of rebuilding and look to be trending upwards....thanks to recognizing foundation problems, biting the bullet, and addressing them.
Flyers have not done that, don't look like they are going to in the foreseeable and that is a sad thing for our Flyer friends here.

Philadelphia COULD have gotten away with a "retool" if it was done carefully and professionally, to extend the usefulness of guys like Giroux, Couturier, or even Voracek before he was traded, but obviously, that was not the case.
Bringing in guys like Hayes, JVR, Risto, as examples, just because they offered ONE or TWO things they did really well, while failing in double the amount of others was simply not the answers.

Some of the media hyped the team, based on some good runs in recent season (or at least PARTS of those seasons), just like they hyped others in hockey hotbed markets like NY and Denver...but the difference of course is, those teams either had good players and strong foundation in place and have been adding to it, or did a tear down/rebuild like I mentioned earlier.
Philly is not, nor were they during the span of the last few seasons, anywhere close to that.

They don't have the right mix of vets to help buoy the new blood that came in or is coming in, dumped WAY too much responsibility on certain young players well before they were really ready to handle it, and of course, there is that front office again.....

I figure, at some point, the Flyers will recognize the real problem and do something with it. I mean...you'd THINK they would.
But that might still take awhile as long as the FO still thinks they are a viable contender that just needs a thing or two.

And for that, I honestly do feel bad for my Flyer friends here, even if my own fandom could care less if the Flyer team sits at the bottom of the standings.
Long suffering fans? Perhaps.
Flyer fans are now 4th, I believe, on the current list of fanbases in the midst of a drought, still waiting to win again.

Being a Pens fan,, I could relate to the Flyers struggles. We went through this for about 25 years or so. With a couple of bankruptcy. I hated to see them go through that.

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9 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Flyers season, where the Hell did it go wrong?

 

7:00 Friday, October 15, 2021

Lauren Hart sang the national anthem.

 

7:05  it.went.wrong.

 

Dec 3 2018 Flyers sign Chuck Fletcher as GM.

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13 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Even though I don't particularly care for the Flyers, I've got too many Flyer fans on here that I like, am fond of and respect their opinions and views for me to just "dump" on the team.

So I will say this, with all due courtesy to my Flyer friends here:

The Flyers have been going "wrong" for awhile now.
Bad contract compounded with bad contract, compounded with trades that either weakened the organization, or simply weren't "the time" to do those types of trades...you know, the kind where you sell out some futures for the chance to win NOW.

Philly never really was ready to "win now" and that goes back quite a number of seasons. Even with the sparks of goodness that was shown with certain players, the bottom line was, its foundation was just not there.
And as some Flyer fans have opened my eyes to, the front office and ownership, the head of the dragon if you would, was not, and still is not, quite right.

Teams like the Rangers, Wild, Red Wings, Senators, and I suspect soon, the Canadiens, tore things down and are in various states of rebuilding and look to be trending upwards....thanks to recognizing foundation problems, biting the bullet, and addressing them.
Flyers have not done that, don't look like they are going to in the foreseeable and that is a sad thing for our Flyer friends here.

Philadelphia COULD have gotten away with a "retool" if it was done carefully and professionally, to extend the usefulness of guys like Giroux, Couturier, or even Voracek before he was traded, but obviously, that was not the case.
Bringing in guys like Hayes, JVR, Risto, as examples, just because they offered ONE or TWO things they did really well, while failing in double the amount of others was simply not the answers.

Some of the media hyped the team, based on some good runs in recent season (or at least PARTS of those seasons), just like they hyped others in hockey hotbed markets like NY and Denver...but the difference of course is, those teams either had good players and strong foundation in place and have been adding to it, or did a tear down/rebuild like I mentioned earlier.
Philly is not, nor were they during the span of the last few seasons, anywhere close to that.

They don't have the right mix of vets to help buoy the new blood that came in or is coming in, dumped WAY too much responsibility on certain young players well before they were really ready to handle it, and of course, there is that front office again.....

I figure, at some point, the Flyers will recognize the real problem and do something with it. I mean...you'd THINK they would.
But that might still take awhile as long as the FO still thinks they are a viable contender that just needs a thing or two.

And for that, I honestly do feel bad for my Flyer friends here, even if my own fandom could care less if the Flyer team sits at the bottom of the standings.
Long suffering fans? Perhaps.
Flyer fans are now 4th, I believe, on the current list of fanbases in the midst of a drought, still waiting to win again.

 

problem is hextall's failure to draft players, every player he drafted has no offensive skill, it was all pretty much grit and grind type of players, he never drafted snipers. none can score because there's no skill and you can say we need top talent well yeah but you can still need skill all over the roster not just one or two players. look at tampa, all their depth players are scoring and they are not top 5 players, it's about speed and skill. if we had that now, we wouldnt be here.

 

it's ridiculous to be blaming fletch for hextall's drafted players, when he fletch's drafted players are playing well with the wild. besides york, none of fletchers drafted players are on the roster. the only reason fletch had to settle for hayes, ellis, nisky is because hextall refused to go after dougie and ror for peanuts. if he did that, i dont think fletch would have to settle for these players.

 

am i shocked? no, i saw this coming way back in 2016.

Edited by tucson83
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29 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

problem is hextall's failure to draft players, every player he drafted has no offensive skill, it was all pretty much grit and grind type of players, he never drafted snipers. none can score because there's no skill and you can say we need top talent well yeah but you can still need skill all over the roster not just one or two players. look at tampa, all their depth players are scoring and they are not top 5 players, it's about speed and skill. if we had that now, we wouldnt be here.

 

it's ridiculous to be blaming fletch for hextall's drafted players, when he fletch's drafted players are playing well with the wild. besides york, none of fletchers drafted players are on the roster. the only reason fletch had to settle for hayes, ellis, nisky is because hextall refused to go after dougie and ror for peanuts. if he did that, i dont think fletch would have to settle for these players.

 

am i shocked? no, i saw this coming way back in 2016.

 

 

 Konecny scored 24 goals 3 years in a row. He's now on pace for, what, 11?

 Provorov tied for the NHL lead in goals. He's on pace for 7.

 Lindblom was our top scorer when he went down with cancer. 

 

 The Wild are playing well because of 1 fluke draft pick by Fletcher, and a bunch of guys the new GM brought in. So no, Fletchers guys aren't the reason for the Wilds dramatic turnaround since he left. Other than Kaprizov. We've been over this last week.

 

 As for the Hayes of the team, that's Fletchers M.O. Sign bad contracts. He's great at it. That and getting raped in trades. His drafting is too early to tell in Philly. But trading away 1sts and 2nds, for bums,  isn't going to help his cause.

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50 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

when he fletch's drafted players are playing well with the wild

 

There are five Fletcher picks still on the Wild, including Kahkonen, Dumba, Eriksson Ek, Greenway, and, of course, Kaprizov (a player every team in the NHL passed on at least four times).

 

Only Kaprizov has more goals per game than Konecny. Provorov has virtually the same points per game as Dumba (and they were both picked at #7). Farabee and Konecny both have higher points per game than Eriksson Ek and Greenway. And Hart is a three year starter which Kahkonen (who I quite like) is still a backup.

 

Allison, Frost, and Radcliff are just starting to make an impact on the NHL roster and were just cited by Fletcher and Briere as players to expect on the roster next season.

 

It's fashionable to blame Hextall for everything, but your point doesn't really hold up under scrutiny.

Edited by radoran
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3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

There are four Fletcher picks still on the Wild, including Kahkonen, Dumba, Eriksson Ek, and, of course, Kaprizov (a player every team in the NHL passed on at least four times).

 

Only Kaprizov has more goals per game than Konecny. Provorov has virtually the same points per game as Dumba (and they were both picked at #7). Farabee and Konecny both have higher points per game than Eriksson Ek. And Hart is a three year starter which Kahkonen (who I quite like) is still a backup.

 

Allison, Frost, and Radcliff are just starting to make an impact on the NHL roster and were just cited by Fletcher and Briere as players to expect on the roster next season.

 

It's fashionable to blame Hextall for everything, but your point doesn't really hold up under scrutiny.

 

passing on makar and pastrnak that's justifiable? 

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5 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

There are five Fletcher picks still on the Wild, including Kahkonen, Dumba, Eriksson Ek, Greenway, and, of course, Kaprizov (a player every team in the NHL passed on at least four times).

 

Only Kaprizov has more goals per game than Konecny. Provorov has virtually the same points per game as Dumba (and they were both picked at #7). Farabee and Konecny both have higher points per game than Eriksson Ek and Greenway. And Hart is a three year starter which Kahkonen (who I quite like) is still a backup.

 

Allison, Frost, and Radcliff are just starting to make an impact on the NHL roster and were just cited by Fletcher and Briere as players to expect on the roster next season.

 

It's fashionable to blame Hextall for everything, but your point doesn't really hold up under scrutiny.

 

 To add, Hextall was far from great. But he at least left the Flyers with plenty of prospects, and all their draft picks. He had a couple of bad contracts, which is far less than what he walked into. Or what Fletcher has done in 3 years.

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3 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

passing on makar and pastrnak that's justifiable? 

 

 Lol...Neither of them were on anyones radar for where Philly picked. In hindsight sure, we're all great GMs years later.

Edited by flyercanuck
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4 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

passing on makar and pastrnak that's justifiable? 

 

I'm not "justifying" anything. Hextall was far from perfect. No GM is. 24 teams passed on Pastrnak. Dallas took Heiskanen over Makar.

 

Your point was that Fletcher's picks were doing better on the Wild than Hextall's on the Flyers. That was shown to be statistically incorrect.

 

If we're talking 20/20 hindsight, what about Aho, Point, and deBrincat? 🙄

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9 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

passing on makar and pastrnak that's justifiable? 

 

 Colorado took Makar right? You know who they took instead of Pasternak, 2 picks before him? Connor Bleakley, who's never set foot in the NHL. WTF, right?

 

 Boston took Pasternak, right? In the 2015 draft they had 3 picks in a row, taking Zboril/Debrusk/Senyshyn. The next 3 draft picks were Barzal/Connor/Chabot.  Why didn't they take them?

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12 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Colorado took Makar right? You know who they took instead of Pasternak, 2 picks before him? Connor Bleakley, who's never set foot in the NHL. WTF, right?

 

 Boston took Pasternak, right? In the 2015 draft they had 3 picks in a row, taking Zboril/Debrusk/Senyshyn. The next 3 draft picks were Barzal/Connor/Chabot.  Why didn't they take them?

Explain It Season 5 GIF by The Office

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6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Dec 3 2018 Flyers sign Chuck Fletcher as GM.

 

Nope wrong date. You have to go further back.

 

Try May 7th 2014.

 

Instead of being fired he was promoted to president of the Flyers and you know who i am talking about.

 

That was the big mistep...and that was on Ed Snider he didn't have the sack to do what needed to be done and they have been paying for that ever since...

 

:BrownBag:

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10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

That was the big mistep...and that was on Ed Snider he didn't have the sack to do what needed to be done

 

You mean hiring Clarke's protege to replace Clarke, moving Clarke into Senior Hockey Advisor, then firing Clarke's protege and moving him to Senior Hockey Advisor, and declaring that we will continue to do things the way we've always done them didn't work out?

 

🤔

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8 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

You mean hiring Clarke's protege to replace Clarke, moving Clarke into Senior Hockey Advisor, then firing Clarke's protege and moving him to Senior Hockey Advisor, and declaring that we will continue to do things the way we've always done them didn't work out?

 

🤔

 

 

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10 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

You mean hiring Clarke's protege to replace Clarke, moving Clarke into Senior Hockey Advisor, then firing Clarke's protege and moving him to Senior Hockey Advisor, and declaring that we will continue to do things the way we've always done them didn't work out?

 

🤔

Nolan North Sip GIF by RETRO REPLAY

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9 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

But trading away 1sts and 2nds, for bums,  isn't going to help his cause

*bum 

Singular. 

And that bum hasn't been terrible.

-But that was a steep price for a #4. No question. 

 

I'm specifically alluding to the trading of a first. 

 

I would do the Braun trade again.

He's been good and if that word is not negative enough for you, he has not been bad.

 

 

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9 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

*bum 

Singular. 

And that bum hasn't been terrible.

-But that was a steep price for a #4. No question. 

 

I'm specifically alluding to the trading of a first. 

 

I would do the Braun trade again.

He's been good and if that word is not negative enough for you, he has not been bad.

 

 

 

 Well Fletchers only had 3-1sts to trade....so far. He did manage to throw in 2 - 2nds to acquire the bum who hasn't been terrible, he just doesn't know how to play his position. 

 

 I'm glad for you if you're happy with Chuck. It's nice to see the Flyers (looks for positivity) 5th in the standings (from the bottom) after he went all in on the season.

 

 Here's hoping the not so terrible guy who is already grossly overpaid takes Chucks 6 year $6.3 million offer so the Flyers can (looks for more positive vibes) be the #1 team ...at having the worst contracts in the league. 

 

 You can tell the long time Flyer fans on this board...we've all been beaten down by this same ol' blueprint that has never worked and that same ol' Fletcher has reopened and we've just had enough of it.  And the results are...obvious. I can honestly say this is the lousiest product I've ever seen the Flyers put on the ice. And that's with the guy you're defending going all in on this season. I wish I could see the silver lining in the cloud you're seeing, but I can't through the monsoon of Ristolainens and Yandles and Haysees. 

 

 I hope I'm not coming across like a jerk, you're a good member here. Just trying to joke around during a season without much to cheer about, unless you're a big fan of those 10 game losing streaks. 

Edited by flyercanuck
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