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Flyers season, where the Hell did it go wrong?


yave1964

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3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

unless you're a big fan of those 10 game losing streaks. 

 

Who isn't?    They're not terrible.  I mean, they're not 12 game losing streaks.  For God's sake, lighten up, FC!

 

Lighten Up Brandon Scott Jones GIF by CBS

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5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

You can tell the long time Flyer fans on this board...we've all been beaten down by this same ol' blueprint that has never worked and that same ol' Fletcher has reopened

 

It's the way they've always done it. The track record of post-lockout success is obvious, if you're Dave Scott.

 

5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

And the results are...obvious. I can honestly say this is the lousiest product I've ever seen the Flyers put on the ice.

 

When you lose your top pair D and top two Cs (yes, we agree on ol' Haysey not being a #2) that's not hard. They have three waiver wire pickups, and three guys who should be in the AHL (Mayhew is a good "story" but has now played more NHL games for the Flyers than he has in five years as a pro and he's 29).

 

It's clearly not what the Flyers planned to put on the ice, but it also is a reflection of some of the serious problems with the organization*: lack of depth, questionable medical decisions, seriously bad personnel decisions (did you know they only need to pay Bryzgalov - who they blew the Cup Final team up for - for another five years to not play for them?).

 

They go out and get Yandle, Thompson, and Brassard to be the veteran support for Vigneault - and they fire Vigneault without any sort of plan.

 

Braun - who they gave up a 2nd and 3rd for - is the type of guy you get to be a steady guy. And they did actually win a playoff round with him. No, really. It's true. Sure, they got waxed in a Game 7 they didn't even bother to show up for, but they won a playoff round for the first time in *checks notes* seven years. And they followed that up by laying two giant season eggs.

 

5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I hope I'm not coming across like a jerk, you're a good member here.

 

I reached out to mojo by DM with similar sentiments when I just completely lost it last season watching them outright quit - again.

 

He's a good guy. I think he gets it. He's not "happy" about where they are and, I think, agrees with much of where we're coming from. But he does look for positives and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

I'm just not on board with the "doing things the way we've always done them" and "just a few tweaks away" perspective of the Great Hockey Minds down at the Big Bank Building. (I am not saying he is).

Edited by radoran
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5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 You can tell the long time Flyer fans on this board...we've all been beaten down by this same ol' blueprint that has never worked and that same ol' Fletcher has reopened and we've just had enough of it.  And the results are...obvious. I can honestly say this is the lousiest product I've ever seen the Flyers put on the ice. And that's with the guy you're defending going all in on this season. I wish I could see the silver lining in the cloud you're seeing, but I can't through the monsoon of Ristolainens and Yandles and Haysees. 

 

 I hope I'm not coming across like a jerk, you're a good member here

Does being a fan since 1977 (7ears old) count?

Is that long enough?

 

And let me be crystal clear that I don't find the team's play this year or last year to be enjoyable or acceptable.

 

As for coming off as a jerk, that isn't the first word I think of.

You do come across as exceedingly negative.

So much so that I worry for your fellow motorists and maybe your pets.

 

You're acting like all the assets have been frittered away when they haven't.

There were and still are issues with the team that the GM made an effort to address. 

Yandle's disastrous signing required zero assets, Brassard who's been alright is of the same circumstance. They were luxury signings that were pushed into more important roles because of injuries. They were signed ostensibly so young players could develop in the A and learn by playing, and not being torched by the best players in the world.

If you cannot recognize this, there is no point in discussing anything further.

 

All the top prospects are still in the fold, only a few 2nd rounders and a wonky year's first rounder have been used to try to make the team better now not in 3 years when a 2nd rounder if it hits might be ready. 

 

Every time I read or hear Fletcher speak, he's communicating that he knows his team is not good.

He knows there needs to be changes made. 

 

If he trades Konecny for Jeff Petry I'll start dipping torches for you and we'll burn some **** down.  That hasn't happened, yet.

Until it does there's really no choice but to wait and see what happens rather than be angry because of 45 years of "not winning". 

Some of that was bad luck, some of it was Martin Broeduer, only recently has it been the result of an out of touch front office. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Does being a fan since 1977 (7ears old) count?

Is that long enough?

 

 Yes. I'd have guessed you to be younger. Cause it seems like the rest of us old guys have had it. 

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

And let me be crystal clear that I don't find the team's play this year or last year to be enjoyable or acceptable.

 

As for coming off as a jerk, that isn't the first word I think of.

You do come across as exceedingly negative.

So much so that I worry for your fellow motorists and maybe your pets.

 

 It's funny, a few years ago when Hextall finally tried to build with a different plan, I was extremely positive about it. When they brought Fletcher in, I knew it might as well have been Homer taking over again. 

 

  As for road rage and my dog, my loathing of Flyer management has zero to do with the rest of my life. 

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

You're acting like all the assets have been frittered away when they haven't.

There were and still are issues with the team that the GM made an effort to address. 

Yandle's disastrous signing required zero assets, Brassard who's been alright is of the same circumstance. They were luxury signings that were pushed into more important roles because of injuries. They were signed ostensibly so young players could develop in the A and learn by playing, and not being torched by the best players in the world.

If you cannot recognize this, there is no point in discussing anything further.

 

 I'm acting like meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Cause he is. Trade 1st and 2nd round picks for players that just aren't worth it. Bring in guys on long term contracts, that just aren't worth it. Yes, Fletchers done both. Did he bring in Yandle for zero assets? Sure...great! He's the last guy in the league I want mentoring our defencemen. If you can't see that....

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

All the top prospects are still in the fold, only a few 2nd rounders and a wonky year's first rounder have been used to try to make the team better now not in 3 years when a 2nd rounder if it hits might be ready. 

 

 All the top prospects are still in the fold....for now! He started throwing away picks last year, what can he trade for lesser value next?

 

 Only a few 2nd rounders? He's only had 3 to use. I've seen what he got for a 1st, 2-2nds, a 7th and two roster players...and I'd prefer whatever came from those draft picks thanks. 

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

Every time I read or hear Fletcher speak, he's communicating that he knows his team is not good.

He knows there needs to be changes made. 

 

 And he's made changes. And we keep going down...down...down.

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

If he trades Konecny for Jeff Petry I'll start dipping torches for you and we'll burn some **** down.  That hasn't happened, yet.

Until it does there's really no choice but to wait and see what happens rather than be angry because of 45 years of "not winning". 

Some of that was bad luck, some of it was Martin Broeduer, only recently has it been the result of an out of touch front office. 

 

 I was told to wait and see when Fletcher came in. I didn't like it one bit. I was told to wait and see when he signed Hayes. I didn't like it one bit. I was told to wait and see when he traded for Ristolainen. I didn't like it one bit. Here we are three years later, FIFTH FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE (man those other teams have to have some complete idiots running them to outdo this group) , and you want to keep on waiting and seeing?

 

 Trust me...I see. 

 

 Vent over...time to go throw my pug at somebodies windshield!

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OK, my take.  We had a "new coach" effect under AV during a strange season plus.   The effect wore off.  This year is the end result of poor drafting and trading over a decade plus, coupled with organizational inbreeding. Whether Fletcher is any better or worse is another season or two plus away from an answer.  What I will say is that the Risto and Ellis trades, however well intentioned, were representative of the bad team building of prior years.  If we had built the D Hextall envisioned, those trades were unnecessary.  

 

As for the forwards--we have not gotten gamechangers via the draft, with recent years being a possible exception.  Bottom line--we have had a parade of coaches and what, four GMs over the past decade plus, and there has been no sustainable Cup contending core.  Even the folks who disagree with the '08 and '10 runs being "flukey" have to admit they did not result from or lead to a sustainable Cup challenging core.  The result--a long walk in the NHL barrens with an occasional playoff series and tons of uninspired hockey.  This season is pus flowing out of lingering boil.  As a long-time fan, I would say that 2006-07 was the result of a franchise that hadn't accepted "The New NHL" and its need for speed and skill.  Yes, Homer put in a quick fix.  But truth be told, the Flyers DNA hasn't changed much in nearly 15 years.  Maybe Fletcher gets it, but I am not putting any money on it, and if he does, there is going to be a long rebuild/retool, or whatever.

 

I am not here to be a killjoy.  But I was a high school senior when the Flyers won in '75, and as I've said here before, wonder if I will live to see another Cup.  

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

This year is the end result of poor drafting

 

I like much of your post, but the Flyers have drafted pretty well - for where they were drafting.

 

The problem is when you're drafting in the mid teens to low 20s you have to have a gem fall into your lap and they haven't.

 

It's the middling bubble playoff approach that just doesn't work in this league. Ask Winnipeg, who arguably has "better" overall talent.

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21 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I like much of your post, but the Flyers have drafted pretty well - for where they were drafting.

 

The problem is when you're drafting in the mid teens to low 20s you have to have a gem fall into your lap and they haven't.

 

It's the middling bubble playoff approach that just doesn't work in this league. Ask Winnipeg, who arguably has "better" overall talent.

I w I'll all stand corrected, but that means we need a Sam Hinkie-type GM and bright owners. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I w I'll all stand corrected, but that means we need a Sam Hinkie-type GM and bright owners. 

 

 

Not meaning to "correct" you as much as expand on the point. They haven't had great draft position and as such haven't struck gold with picks.

 

And much has been covered on here about whether "tearing it down" and going through "a process" is the answer.

 

I don't think it's an either/or scenario. But there's a difference between following an "anything can happen" philosophy and making the right moves at the right time.

 

"Make the playoffs next year" and "spend to the cap" from where I sit gets you five years of JVR and seven years of Kevin Hayes.

 

Instead of going for the best available UFA who fills next year's need, make the RIGHT move at the right time. Adding JVR as "the best UFA available"  didn't make the team and contender and many said so at the time. Adding Hayes as the "best 2C available" didn't make the team a contender and many said so at the time. Those sorts of moves eat up cap space when other, better options might come available.

 

Signing Ristolainen to the offered $6.2M contract when you have $13M in cap space limits your options.  It means you may need to give up draft picks to get a player off your roster to make room to pursue a Gaudreau like they "had to do" with Ghost to make room to get Ristolainen in the first place.

 

Spending a few years with top 10 picks - not tearing it down to try to get a 1/2 in what might be a weak draft (*cough* Patrick *cough*) - keeping cap space available for the right player (see: Panarin, Rangers) - that's how teams have turned things around and put themselves into a competitive position rather than an "anything can happen" position.

 

I look at a Rangers, a Calgary, a Carolina. To an extent the Bruins were built this way. The Caps. The Blues.

 

Some of it is luck - getting a Pastrnak, a Point, an Aho, a diamond in the rough. Getting a team to send you a pick that becomes a Carlson because they're chasing the dragon.

 

I don't think they need to tear it all down, but doing it the same way they've been doing it hasn't worked for ten years.

 

Maybe *this* time it will!

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From the Chatbox here's COC's article that was written giving his thoughts on the Morgan Frost development situation and the what the team's goals are/should be for the rest of the season.

I found it interesting

On Tuesday, the Philadelphia Flyers lost their 37th game of the season and are now 23 points out of the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference, their preseason goal of contending for the Stanley Cup all but dead. A little over 24 hours earlier, the Flyers reassigned Morgan Frost — viewed by many at the start of the season as the team’s top forward prospect — to the AHL rather than continue his development at the NHL level.

This glaring disconnect stands as one of the few intriguing conversations left to have about the 2021-22 Flyers.

With a postseason berth a near-statistical impossibility, the focus at Flyers HQ ostensibly has turned to the future. General manager Chuck Fletcher is preparing for the trade deadline and the brain trust is laying out plausible offseason scenarios, but it goes beyond that. Listen to interim head coach Mike Yeo and it’s clear the reality of the situation hasn’t been lost on him, either. Here’s Yeo on the importance of his players continuing to scratch and claw for every win, even with the playoffs out of reach.

“I don’t think that it would serve us any good whatsoever just to mail in these games and develop bad habits, and in particular, have that kind of attitude, that kind of character, and expect that things are going to be different next year,” he said Tuesday.

Next year. Yeah, it’s pretty clear what Yeo and the organization are thinking about right now. The goal no longer is to make the playoffs and win a championship in 2021-22 (obviously). It’s to position the team best for 2022-23.

Which brings us back to Frost, and the overarching question asked by many in the wake of his demotion: What exactly is the point of the rest of this season for the Flyers? How does a team best position itself for the future?


In many ways, Frost’s demotion was a long time coming. The Flyers already sent him down in early February, even if it was more of a roundabout move; they demoted him and Cam York before the All-Star break in what initially appeared to be an attempt to get both extra game time while the NHLers were on vacation, and then neither was brought back when the big club returned to practice the following week. York remains in the AHL, but Frost was quickly recalled once Derick Brassard again was forced out of the lineup due to his lingering hip issue. In other words, Frost was playing not necessarily because the Flyers wanted him up, but because their conspicuous lack of viable centers meant they needed him up. Once Brassard showed he could actually play two games in a row this past week, Frost’s NHL days were numbered.

And going purely by the numbers, a demotion is justified. Frost has two points in 18 games since the calendar turned to 2022. Over the team’s last 10 games, the Flyers have collected just 35.15 percent of the expected goals at five-on-five with Frost on the ice — a team-worst mark, even lower than that of Keith Yandle (36.06 percent). His negative-2.3 Goals Above Replacement per Evolving-Hockey’s player value model doesn’t exactly scream slam-dunk NHLer. It’s not like this is a case of the Flyers sending a player down despite the fact that he’s clearly succeeding in the NHL.

But in fairness to Frost, he hasn’t exactly been placed in the best situations to succeed, either. He hasn’t been on a “scoring” line since early January. His two most frequent NHL linemates this season are Gerry Mayhew and Max Willman, two players who are trying to find their place in the top league in the world as well, not established contributors. He was even knocked off the power play for two games, a counterproductive move for a player that all agree will make his bones in the NHL as a creative scorer.

GettyImages-1344175553-scaled.jpg
 
(Maddie Meyer / Getty Images)

Faced with a clearly struggling 22-year-old forward, the Flyers realistically had two options, because keeping the usage status quo the same wasn’t working. They could have bumped him up, giving him both better linemates and increased minutes, or sent him to the AHL.

For most fans — and even many outside observers of the Flyers — the right decision was clear. And it goes back to what they believe the point of the rest of the season is. If the team can’t make the playoffs, the thinking goes, why not lean on kids like Frost and find out what you have in them? Give him top-six minutes with quality wingers, use him on PP1, encourage his offensive game. And if it makes the team a little weaker in the short term? Who cares? The Flyers have won just three of their last 23 games. How much worse can it get? The only focus at this point should be on developing young players like Frost (and York and Isaac Ratcliffe, who was sent down Thursday), not on trying to win games that are objectively meaningless in the sense of increasing the odds of winning a championship this season.

This is the core disconnect between that vocal section of the fan base and the organization at large. The former, robbed of any chance to watch competitive, meaningful Flyers hockey the rest of the way, wants to watch the kids. They want them placed in positions to succeed and given the opportunity to take their lumps at the NHL level, even if it means more team losses in the short term. In their minds, the long-term gain outweighs any present-day pain — which is an understandable position to take, given that the present is already providing more than enough pain for anyone still stubborn enough to be watching every Flyers game.


The Flyers, on the other hand? They see it far differently. Yeo’s quote after the team’s tight 4-3 loss to the Carolina Hurricanes last Monday was as revealing as it gets, when he was asked if it can be difficult for a team to keep up a solid process even without being rewarded with winning results. It’s a bit long, but the content makes it worth including the entirety of his answer — with the most important bits bolded.

“I feel like we’re at a little bit of a tipping point right now with that, to be honest with you, because there’s so much frustration,” Yeo said. “We are pushing and we are getting better. We’re getting tougher to play against, we’re giving up fewer scoring chances and we’re generating more scoring chances. We’re getting more consistent in our checking game and the mentality of how we want to play with the puck.

“You don’t hope for results as a coach, you want to work and earn your results. But at the same time, results do help build the confidence in that game and reinforce those things. It’s a challenge, and I’m going to challenge our leaders, and I’m going to challenge our group to stay with it, because that is what is required. Whether it is changing culture, building a game, going from a place of where we’ve been for the last two years to where we want to go, that’s a really tough job. You’ve seen a lot of teams with a lot of good players who haven’t been able to break that, and that’s where we are at. I feel like we have done a lot of good things, but the next part is going to be the hardest and we have to stay with it.”

To start, Yeo isn’t wrong about the Flyers’ process. For the first time all season, the team has sustained an expected goals percentage at five-on-five around 50 percent, and that’s with a roster far less talented on paper than it was at the beginning of 2021-22. But let’s focus on the concepts of the Flyers being at a “tipping point,” and then, the especially telling reference to the past two seasons of underwhelming play by the club as a whole.

My read on the Flyers’ internal view of their predicament is that they believe that at some point during the 2020-21 season, something broke within the club. One could even argue it happened during the bubble postseason of 2020 (xGF%: 44.75 percent), but even as their execution suffered during that playoff run, their effort never flagged. By Yeo’s own public admission — don’t forget about his “learning how to work” comments in January — that hasn’t been the case at times over the past two seasons. For Yeo, Fletcher, and the Flyers’ brain trust, these games are about changing that toxic element of their culture that they believe infected the team sometime in 2021 and played a major role in torpedoing this season as well as last. It’s not that the development of players like Frost doesn’t matter — it’s that, in their mind, Frost’s development won’t matter in the grand scheme of turning the Flyers around if real progress isn’t made over the final two months in fixing what truly ails the team.

“For me, I think it’s (Bill) Belichick who’s quoted that ‘Culture beats strategy every time,’” Yeo said on Tuesday. “You can talk about X’s and O’s, and you can talk about personnel, (but) I think that there’s a reason why certain teams win year after year. We have to keep working to become one of those teams.”

But the Flyers keep losing at a ridiculous rate. How is winning three times in 23 games doing anything to change the culture?

This is where that “tipping point” concept returns to the forefront. An awful on-ice process is a dead giveaway of a broken club. And that process, as noted, has been improving for over a month. Yet the results haven’t been there, thus leading to the current tipping point. Players are only human — most can only sustain a strong process for so long absent any tangible, encouraging results before throwing their hands up and collectively deciding, “What’s the point?” And then the process collapses once again, and all the progress made over the past two months ends up pointless. That’s the outcome the Flyers, in the here and now, desperately want to avoid.

And that’s why, in their mind, the final two months of this season matter actually quite a lot. After all, if they believe the mess of 2020-21 carried over into 2021-22, the last thing they want to happen is for the same malaise to ruin 2022-23 as well.


Now, we get back to Frost.

When asked to explain the reasons for Frost’s demotion, Yeo’s justification came in two parts: he’ll be able to get heavy minutes in the AHL and dominate there and that will help turn him into a more assertive, confident and better player for when he’s eventually recalled.

“The other part of the conversation is, it’s tough to get confidence, it’s tough to build that offensive confidence in this league,” Yeo argued. “It’s a very unforgiving league, where you’re playing against the best defenders night after night, so there’s an opportunity for him there (in the AHL) to go out and to build that into his game.”

But as noted, playing against weaker competition isn’t the only way for confidence to be fostered. Granting him better linemates — say, Claude Giroux or Cam Atkinson or Travis Konecny — would be an option as well. On Tuesday, Yeo was directly asked why they didn’t go that route and, to his credit, he provided a detailed, in-depth answer. In summary:

  • They were in desperate need of centers with Sean Couturier, Kevin Hayes and then Brassard out, which is why he wasn’t moved to the wing.
  • They were happy with the play of the Oskar Lindblom, Scott Laughton and Konecny line and didn’t want to break it up.
  • They wanted to continue to develop Frost at center, which was another reason they didn’t move him to the wing in order to get him up the lineup.
  • They felt like the benefit of playing with better linemates would have, at least in part, been counteracted by the tougher competition he’d faced in a top-six role.

On the surface, all of these justifications make sense. The Flyers did need centers. The Laughton line was playing well. It does make sense to continue to develop a center-capable forward prospect at center for as long as possible, until it becomes abundantly clear he can’t cut it in that role. And first lines do face tougher matchups than third-liners.

But none of them are slam dunks, either. With Brassard and Patrick Brown back, the Flyers now could move Frost off center and play him with more established scorers without having to resort to using someone like Jackson Cates at 3C. There’s no rule saying they couldn’t break up the Laughton line beyond the simple fact they didn’t want to do it. A brief detour to wing won’t necessarily kill a youngster’s development and make it impossible for him to return to center later. And while tougher matchups are a consequence of a promotion up the lineup, teammate quality is a real factor as well, and in short, a team won’t know which one proves more impactful on a player’s results until it’s actually tried. The Flyers could have accommodated Frost. They just didn’t.

And why didn’t they? My guess is it all goes back to that tipping point concept.

The hard truth is that teams believing that winning games is especially important at this moment in time aren’t going to promote a forward with a 35 percent xG rate for the past month into their top six. Teams trying to reinstitute accountability aren’t going to demote a hardworking and productive player like Laughton down to Line 3 just to get a rookie cushier minutes. Teams in tank-and-develop mode might. But teams trying to use an improving process as a springboard into both wins and a gradual rebuilding of their internal culture won’t be especially receptive to the idea of purposely making their lineup worse and risking the whole tenuous structure collapsing on itself once more.

It’s an essential part of understanding why Frost was sent down.


That said, there’s a difference between understanding a decision and agreeing with it.

Let’s start with the concept of season-over-season carry-over. Yes, it does seem like there was negative carry-over from 2020-21 to 2021-22 in terms of inconsistent efforts and a general lack of dedication to structure. But that was in no small part because some people in power  — in this case, the coaching staff — were not changed.

Contrast that to 2018-19 into 2019-20, when the coaching staff was overhauled, and the team went from struggling mightily in terms of habits (47.00 percent xG share at five-on-five under Scott Gordon) to legitimately controlling play (50.97 percent xG share). The Flyers very well may be placing far too much importance — and foolishly pushing prospect development at the NHL level to the backseat in the process — on something that would be addressed naturally with the right head coach hire this summer.

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(Len Redkoles / NHLI via Getty Images)

Second, it’s harder to swallow that the Flyers are prioritizing the construction of the best lineup possible with the goal of rebuilding a winning culture when they insist upon dressing Yandle (negative-9.1 Goals Above Replacement, third-worst in hockey) over York, who Brent Flahr publicly acknowledged is good enough for the NHL right now. Yes, they do believe that York will benefit from building up his offensive confidence in the minors. And yes, they may have backed themselves into a corner at this point with the popular-in-the-room Yandle, in that even a single-game benching (ending his consecutive games streak) would result in a team-wide revolt that could undo all the process-related progress that Yeo has made.

Yeo even said Wednesday, “I don’t know that I’ve ever met a teammate that’s more appreciated by his fellow teammates,” a tacit acknowledgement that scratching him — even for a player that most in the room might acknowledge can deliver more at this point on the ice than Yandle — wouldn’t exactly go over well. But making the implicit case that Frost can’t be moved up in the lineup because he’s not playing well enough while continuing to dress Yandle is rightfully going to inspire charges of double standards.

Finally, there’s the impact on Frost himself. The Flyers’ developmental strategies have rightfully come under fire this season, as the vaunted Ron Hextall retool has borne far less fruit — both in terms of impact players and raw volume of useful pieces — than the hockey world at large expected it would. Playing Frost in the NHL with players who would be ticketed for the AHL in a normal year, yo-yoing him back and forth between leagues, taking away his power play time (this one especially) — they’re all textbook chapters in the “how to screw up a young, talented player’s development” manual.

Even if the idea of reconstructing a broken culture at the NHL level is a good one, there’s a solid case to be made that in relation to Frost, it’s a case of the organization not seeing the forest for the trees. They’re so focused on fixing one problem that they’re creating another by accident. And given the Flyers’ dearth of quality scoring center prospects in their system, the last thing they can afford to happen is for Frost to wash out in Philadelphia and then flourish with another organization in the wake of a “we give up” type of trade.

But the argument that the Flyers’ treatment of Frost shows that the organization doesn’t care about the future is an incomplete one. Their priority the rest of the way remains to try to position themselves best for 2022-23. The execution of that priority, however? Only the future itself will tell.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

And yes, they may have backed themselves into a corner at this point with the popular-in-the-room Yandle, in that even a single-game benching (ending his consecutive games streak) would result in a team-wide revolt that could undo all the process-related progress that Yeo has made.

Yeo even said Wednesday, “I don’t know that I’ve ever met a teammate that’s more appreciated by his fellow teammates,” a tacit acknowledgement that scratching him — even for a player that most in the room might acknowledge can deliver more at this point on the ice than Yandle — wouldn’t exactly go over well.

 

So, there's a TON in this article that is spot on, but I'm highlighting this because it's exactly why bringing Yandle on was a mistake in the first place (hi, @flyercanuck!) and it's exactly why "they way they've always done things" will keep biting them in the keister.

 

The idea that they have to play a guy who is the third worst goals above replacement in the entire league isn't a small problem. It's massive. They're coddling Yandle, coddling the players who would "revolt" if he was scratched, and that's not creating a winning culture by any stretch.

 

It's great that he's a nice guy. It's great that guys like him. THE TEAM ISN'T HERE TO PLAY GUYS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKED.

 

The point is to win hockey games, and in this case - by their own admission - they're giving out participation trophies.

 

I'd be speechless if it wasn't so ******* obvious before even reading this.

 

Maybe next year they'll get it right!:smallTM:

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17 minutes ago, radoran said:

The idea that they have to play a guy who is the third worst goals above replacement in the entire league isn't a small problem. It's massive. They're coddling Yandle, coddling the players who would "revolt" if he was scratched, and that's not creating a winning culture by any stretch.

I saw that too and had a similar reaction.

 

Not that it was a mistake from the outset though.

I didn't think that, I took the FO at their word that he was a bottom pairing PP guy to give York time.

 

What I did think was the inmates are running the asylum, if scratching a bad player would cause a revolt. 

I thought the tipping point comment from Yeo was interesting and I really thought his press availability was some enlightening content today.

It seems to me as though Mike does have an idea of what needs to happen with this group but his status as interim makes it so the players can just wait him out. First until the trade deadline then, until he's done at the end of the season.

Makes it kind of hard to implement a culture. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

Not that it was a mistake from the outset though.

I didn't think that, I took the FO at their word that he was a bottom pairing PP guy to give York time.

 

As you know from our interactions on here, I was on board with that at the time, as well.

 

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Makes it kind of hard to implement a culture. 

 

My main question then goes to - what was the culture before this?

 

The inmates have been running the asylum for a long time. And it predates #notallhisfault. In fact #notallhisfault was brought up in that culture. He apparently quite likes it. Feels proud about it.

 

And so does #thewaywe'vealwaysdonethings management*.

 

I really, honestly, don't know what to do. I showed my wife the video of the empty Big Bank Building. She said "so we can get good seats? You want to go?"

 

"No."

 

They have killed hockey in this town. Death by 1,000 cuts.

 

And they say they're going to keep doing it that way.

 

Maybe I really should just walk away.

 

#halloffame

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3 minutes ago, radoran said:

Maybe I really should just walk away.

I'm going to wait until I see Konecny and a conditional 3rd for Jeff Petry before I throw in the towel.

 

I still have hope that a couple of Ol'Forrester, Finnish kid and Ronnie Attard could add some reasons to keep watching.

Also I'm not sure I buy doing things the way they've always been done squares with the hiring orgy that has happened in the hockey operations department.

 

The FO knows things need a changing and have added resources all over the organization to make it better.

Investing in analytics, and player development.  It won't turn around in a year but all this bureaucratic bloat could improve many of the processes. Pro scouting, keeping in contact with players in Europe, developing the North American players.  Many of the things we wish the organization did better are in the sights. 

 

 

 

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Just now, mojo1917 said:

I'm going to wait until I see Konecny and a conditional 3rd for Jeff Petry before I throw in the towel.

 

I still have hope that a couple of Ol'Forrester, Finnish kid and Ronnie Attard

 

I'm hanging on by a thread. I remember when I used to care.

 

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

Also I'm not sure I buy doing things the way they've always been done squares with the hiring orgy that has happened in the hockey operations department.

 

You mean analytics? They just offered Ristolainen 6Y, $6.XM. Ol' Fletch says he is set on keeping him - if he'll stay. No, seriously.

 

Shocked George Costanza GIF

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57 minutes ago, radoran said:

They're coddling Yandle, coddling the players who would "revolt" if he was scratched, and that's not creating a winning culture by any stretch.

 

Hell at this point i might even tolerate him playing IF he was doing anything that remotely resembled GOOD hockey....but man this guy makes you miss Erik Gustafsson sort of...

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34 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

What I did think was the inmates are running the asylum, if scratching a bad player would cause a revolt. 

 

 

Exactly FUG EM.....this would be the BEST message to send not that a message will make a fcuk anyways...

 

 

Edited by OccamsRazor
bourbon isn't working
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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hell at this point i might even tolerate him playing IF he was doing anything that remotely resembled GOOD hockey....but man this guy makes you miss Erik Gustafsson sort of...

 

I tried to imagine what a "revolt" would look like, but it really couldn't be more revolting than what they're already doing.

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16 minutes ago, radoran said:

You mean analytics? They just offered Ristolainen 6Y, $6.XM. Ol' Fletch says he is set on keeping him - if he'll stay.

I reckon they could hire a bunch of people and then not listen to them. i don't know idk GIF by Ratboys

 

that would definitely be doing things the way we always have.

Edited by mojo1917
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1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Broad Street Hockey: NHL Trade Deadline: The worst-case scenario for Philadelphia Flyers’ trade deadline.
https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2022/3/4/22816129/nhl-trade-rumors-philadelphia-flyers-deadline-giroux-ristolainen

 

Some gallows humor for Friday toilet reading 

 

Sorry for the negativity again...but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if all those things happened. I actually come to expect it from Fletcher and co.

 

You guys were discussing Yandle earlier and I meant to jump in...I never liked Yandle as a defenceman. But when Fletcher signed him for 1 year to what was basically league minimum, I thought it was a great deal...Fletcher-wise. I was just happy it wasn't for 5 years, or for $5 million, or both. That's what this management has brought to a once great team though, you get all excited for garbage just because he didn't f*** up large...this time.

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