"Fans need to stop going to the games"

[OccamsRazor]

15 hours ago, aziz said:

How DO you fix a team in today's NHL, though? 

 

I have to say I don't honestly know anymore.

 

We have seen the Bolts shed old stars and then win back to back Cups.

 

We have seen the Rangers rebuild and do it quickly.

 

We have seen the Wings retool quickly.

 

So there are different was to do it but can't tell you what is best for this deranged bunch anymore. I thought I di but yeah I am not sure first off they need some much needed therapy to help - exorcism or something.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

I have to say I don't honestly know anymore.

 

I'm going to speculate that it doesn't involve "spending to the cap" every season or "doing things the way we've always done then" after the least successful decade in franchise history.

 

I would have liked to see how Hextall's plan would have developed without signing JVR, for example. I just don't think that the guys who have gotten them to where they are would have had the stomach for that.

 

That seemed to involve building from the net out. Focusing on developing in the organization*. Holding onto cap space to use to get the player who is the best fit, not the "best player available."

 

Apparently the road that has brought "shocking" audiences to stay away in droves from the Big Bank Building was a "better" idea.

 

They say they know they need more high end talent. They don't seem to have any real plan to make that happen.

 

I can see them re-signing Giroux, re-signing Ristolainen, buying out JVR, trading Konecny, and using the space to get "best available" free agent Filip Forsberg.

 

Then the idea is that they can make the playoffs and...

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Happy to be wrong. Thrilled. Ecstatic.

 

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'm going to speculate that it doesn't involve "spending to the cap" every season or "doing things the way we've always done then" after the least successful decade in franchise history.

 

I would have liked to see how Hextall's plan would have developed without signing JVR, for example. I just don't think that the guys who have gotten them to where they are would have had the stomach for that.

 

That seemed to involve building from the net out. Focusing on developing in the organization*. Holding onto cap space to use to get the player who is the best fit, not the "best player available."

 

Apparently the road that has brought "shocking" audiences to stay away in droves from the Big Bank Building was a "better" idea.

 

They say they know they need more high end talent. They don't seem to have any real plan to make that happen.

 

I can see them re-signing Giroux, re-signing Ristolainen, buying out JVR, trading Konecny, and using the space to get "best available" free agent Filip Forsberg.

 

Then the idea is that they can make the playoffs and...

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Happy to be wrong. Thrilled. Ecstatic.

 

 

An identity would help to go a long ways.

[radoran]

11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

An identity would help to go a long ways.

 

Is there another team that has had the same captain for a decade and is still fumbling around looking for "an identity"?

 

Asking for an organization*

[OccamsRazor]

25 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Is there another team that has had the same captain for a decade and is still fumbling around looking for "an identity"?

 

Asking for an organization*

 

Nope.

[OccamsRazor]

41 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Is there another team that has had the same captain for a decade and is still fumbling around looking for "an identity"?

 

Asking for an organization*

 

Well just heard the new blame I think it start with Sam Carchidi is they blame it on the removal of the Kate Smith statue I'm not making this up I will see if I can find it and post it. Sometimes hard on the phone here at work.

 

So hey at least we have a NEW excuse now...supposedly that is when all the bad luck started.

[OccamsRazor]

 

SMFH.

[OccamsRazor]

 

[aziz]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

We have seen the Bolts shed old stars and then win back to back Cups.

 

I'm not sure I'd point at anything about the plague-shortened seasons or their weirdo playoffs as meaning much, to be honest.  Yes, Tampa got their names on the cup both years, but I don't think you can extract anything from those runs that could reasonably be applied to a "normal" season or its post-season.

 

And yeah, teams can rebuild quickly, sure, insofar as they can dump a number of players and pick up a bunch of others in a short amount of time.  Sometimes that makes a bigger mess, sometimes it shakes things up and works.  Can the ones that manage to make it work do it in a thoughtful way that can be replicated in a consistent manner, and last over the course of several seasons?  Or, is it mostly a matter of a bunch of teams throwing a bunch of crap at the wall, and one or two of them are lucky enough to have some of the **** stick?  I've felt it is the latter for almost a decade now.  I really don't think it is possible build a team in the current league with any reason to be confident you've done something that will work out.  Sometimes it will work, sometimes it'll fall to pieces. 

 

It makes me think of blackjack:  mediocre teams have a 13 sitting in front of them.  Options are either stay where they (and hey, sometimes a 13 will win), or hit.  If they hit, most of time they'll bust, but sometimes they'll draw an 8. 

 

Does it make them "smart" to have drawn the 8?

 

Is it an engaging thing to hope your favorite team draws an 8?

 

No and no.

[OccamsRazor]

18 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

I'm not sure I'd point at anything about the plague-shortened seasons or their weirdo playoffs as meaning much, to be honest.  Yes, Tampa got their names on the cup both years, but I don't think you can extract anything from those runs that could reasonably be applied to a "normal" season or its post-season.

 

And yeah, teams can rebuild quickly, sure, insofar as they can dump a number of players and pick up a bunch of others in a short amount of time.  Sometimes that makes a bigger mess, sometimes it shakes things up and works.  Can the ones that manage to make it work do it in a thoughtful way that can be replicated in a consistent manner, and last over the course of several seasons?  Or, is it mostly a matter of a bunch of teams throwing a bunch of crap at the wall, and one or two of them are lucky enough to have some of the **** stick?  I've felt it is the latter for almost a decade now.  I really don't think it is possible build a team in the current league with any reason to be confident you've done something that will work out.  Sometimes it will work, sometimes it'll fall to pieces. 

 

It makes me think of blackjack:  mediocre teams have a 13 sitting in front of them.  Options are either stay where they (and hey, sometimes a 13 will win), or hit.  If they hit, most of time they'll bust, but sometimes they'll draw an 8. 

 

Does it make them "smart" to have drawn the 8?

 

Is it an engaging thing to hope your favorite team draws an 8?

 

No and no.

 

Until Homer and his gang is gone I'm afraid all you're going go see is more rearranging of the deck chairs on this sinking ship.

 

I hope I am wrong - but I have stopped watching and have only been boxscore watching this season.

 

It feel like it will be awhile till I can sit and enjoy watching again.

 

They won't be getting any $$$$ from me till I see some big changes...

[aziz]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Until Homer and his gang is gone I'm afraid all you're going go see is more rearranging of the deck chairs on this sinking ship.

 

Sure.  Also, I don't think I'm going to win the lottery with Homer and his gang around.  Which is to say, dislike them all you want, the NHL is now built so you can't really do much other than move chairs around.

 

Let's play this game:  you are in charge.  Any reasonable value for value trade you propose will be accepted by the other GM.  What would you do?  What could you possibly do that would have more than a 50-50 chance of working out even ok, much less create a season-on-season competitive team?  You can't add high-end talent, because of the cap.  Middling talent, you already have that.  Role players are no longer a thing, you can't improve your team by creating a lock-down checking line.  All you have are prospects and picks that might end up actually helping.  And each of those, outside of the top 5, are themselves 50-50 at best.  And even IN the top 5 (hello, Mr. Patrick).  

 

So, Homer or no Homer, what is there to be done, other than hope to get lucky with a pick or overperforming prospect?  Again, you have a 13.  May as well hit, but what card you get next does not reflect your ability draw cards or play blackjack.

 

With all of that said, the team may as well take the 50-50 and get whatever rolls of the dice they can, I guess.  No point in defending their current construction.  It looks like the Flyers don't have a 13, they have a 4.  Have to hit, even though you are still probably going to bust.  And that's the thing:  they are still probably going to bust, whether Homer is involved or not.  It's random.

 

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I hope I am wrong - but I have stopped watching and have only been boxscore watching this season.

 

It feel like it will be awhile till I can sit and enjoy watching again.

 

Hey, man, come on over and have a seat.  I ordered you a beer, it'll be here in a minute.

 

Except I don't feel like it'll be "a while".  It's just over.  I remain a big fan of HockeyForums.net and all of you, and I really get a kick of lurking this site during boring work meetings, and popping my head up sometimes.  And stretching my being-argumentative legs.  lol.  But I'm 5 years done giving two craps about hockey or the Flyers.  I still wear the hat and the hoodie, because they are the best hat and hoodie I've ever owned (seriously, Starter made some for-real quality hoodies in the mid-80s, I'm still wearing the same one and it's in great shape).

 

Is what is it.  Time passes, good things die and rot.  Remember them for when they were good, but find other things once they start to smell really bad.\

 

Edited for:  you can't have a 3 in blackjack.  It'd defacto be a 13, i.e., break my weak analogy.  4 works.  

Edited March 6, 2022 by aziz

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, aziz said:

 

Sure.  Also, I don't think I'm going to win the lottery with Homer and his gang around.  Which is to say, dislike them all you want, the NHL is now built so you can't really do much other than move chairs around.

 

Let's play this game:  you are in charge.  Any reasonable value for value trade you propose will be accepted by the other GM.  What would you do?  What could you possibly do that would have more than a 50-50 chance of working out even ok, much less create a season-on-season competitive team?  You can't add high-end talent, because of the cap.  Middling talent, you already have that.  Role players are no longer a thing, you can't improve your team by creating a lock-down checking line.  All you have are prospects and picks that might end up actually helping.  And each of those, outside of the top 5, are themselves 50-50 at best.  And even IN the top 5 (hello, Mr. Patrick).  

 

So, Homer or no Homer, what is there to be done, other than hope to get lucky with a pick or overperforming prospect?  Again, you have a 13.  May as well hit, but what card you get next does not reflect your ability draw cards or play blackjack.

 

With all of that said, the team may as well take the 50-50 and get whatever rolls of the dice they can, I guess.  No point in defending their current construction.  It looks like the Flyers don't have a 13, they have a 3.  Have to hit, even though you are still probably going to bust.  And that's the thing:  they are still probably going to bust, whether Homer is involved or not.  It's random.

 

 

Hey, man, come on over and have a seat.  I ordered you a beer, it'll be here in a minute.

 

Except I don't feel like it'll be "a while".  It's just over.  I remain a big fan of HockeyForums.net and all of you, and I really get a kick of lurking this site during boring work meetings, and popping my head up sometimes.  And stretching my being-argumentative legs.  lol.  But I'm 5 years done giving two craps about hockey or the Flyers.  I still wear the hat and the hoodie, because they are the best hat and hoodie I've ever owned (seriously, Starter made some for-real quality hoodies in the mid-80s, I'm still wearing the same one and it's in great shape).

 

Is what is it.  Time passes, good things die and rot.  Remember them for when they were good, but find other things once they start to smell really bad.

always great when chime in.  Excellent post and thought provoking exercise….

good to see you bud.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, aziz said:

But I'm 5 years done giving two craps about hockey or the Flyers. 

 

You haven't missed a thing.

 

In fact I am joining you. With a family now and a daughter who is 10 there are just more important things in life than watching a bunch of self entitled millionaires skate circles out there and not really GAF about the outcome.

 

Can't do it. Won't do it. So they can do what they won't I won't be watching them.

 

I still enjoy talking to the folks here and venting or being their for others to vent frustration when I have a chance.

 

Otherwise the Flyers can kiss my ass...

 

[aziz]

20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

You haven't missed a thing.

 

In fact I am joining you. With a family now and a daughter who is 10 there are just more important things in life than watching a bunch of self entitled millionaires skate circles out there and not really GAF about the outcome.

 

Can't do it. Won't do it. So they can do what they won't I won't be watching them.

 

I still enjoy talking to the folks here and venting or being their for others to vent frustration when I have a chance.

 

Otherwise the Flyers can kiss my ass...

 

This is exactly where I am.  Minus a daughter.  There's just no pay off.  The NHL decided to establish parity.  Not realizing the only way to do that is to make outcomes random.  No one has an advantage, no one can maintain primacy for more than a year or two, everything churns and muddles. That was the goal.  But people can only put their emotional involvement into random for so long until they are empty and have to walk away.

 

The Flyers will get their turn.  At some point, the random will smile on them.  Thing is, a coin can come up heads 4 times in a row, random does not actually distribute evenly.  So, in a year, 5 years, 10 years, 50 years, the Flyers will be good.  Noone can do any specific thing to make that happen, though.  Wait your turn.  And I have no interest in that.

[aziz]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

always great when chime in.  Excellent post and thought provoking exercise….

good to see you bud.

 

Hey, man, thank you.  I REALLY miss Flyers hockey.  I REALLY miss feeling like there was some kind of math behind it all, that a clever plan could accomplish things.  I miss caring about this game minute to minute and day to day.  It was an engrossing thing, endless what-if's.  What-if's that could conceivably happen.

 

I miss caring.

 

But you all are awesome.  I've been interacting with a lot of you for what, 20+ years now?  I mean, holy crap.  I'm really glad this site still exists, and that so many of you are still around.  It really does warm my heart to come here and see all of the banter continuing.  I just wish there was more substance behind the things the banter is about.  But, hey, I'll take the banter as I can get it.  

[radoran]

2 hours ago, aziz said:

I miss caring

 

Right there with you.

 

I've started several responses  to your recent posts and then just said "**** it".

 

Because fundamentally you're right.

 

2 hours ago, aziz said:

But you all are awesome.  I've been interacting with a lot of you for what, 20+ years now?  I mean, holy crap.  I'm really glad this site still exists, and that so many of you are still around.  It really does warm my heart to come here and see all of the banter continuing.

 

This is basically why I'm still here.

 

I really looked forward to having y'all down to South Broad for the parade.

 

Now I feel like a ******* Leaves fan planning the parade on Yonge Street...

 

#legendary

 

[SCFlyguy]

All sports are random if they have a cap.  There is still math behind it all.  You just have to build an asset pool, take a shot for a period of 5-10 years, tear it down, and start over.  The cap just prevents you from (or punishes you for) paying the marginal players on your roster.  The good thing is those marginal players are a lot easier to find than the core players.  All the Flyers have are marginal players right now.

 

Nothing has really changed except the Flyers' pre-cap ability to cover up poor decision making by spending more than most teams.

 

I also suggest that the lack of interest for some in the Flyers might be a matter of aging.  I know I don't burn as hot and cold with any of my teams as I did when I was younger.

[Digityman]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:29 PM, ruxpin said:

Or even that.  I'm pretty much into my third season of being among them (or not among them).

I'm in that boat now.  I'm excited during the day that the Flyers are on out of habit.  When I actually turn the game on, I usually switch to YouTube and forget about the game.   I'm only pissed because I didn't get to see what Therian was wearing.

[radoran]

27 minutes ago, Digityman said:

I'm only pissed because I didn't get to see what Therian was wearing.

 

Pretty sure you spelled "Taryn" wrong

[Digityman]

Just now, radoran said:

 

Pretty sure you spelled "Taryn" wrong

Pretty sure I care not how you spell her name... but only care to stare into her eyes and dream.   

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Pretty sure I care not how you spell her name... but only care to stare into her eyes and dream.   

 

Whew! was worried for a moment you meant Bundy...

 

[Digityman]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Whew! was worried for a moment you meant Bundy...

 

Well Rad, even if I did mean Bundy you couldn't judge me, even on the internets.  I would complain to management and they would silence you.   Also, I would like to be referred to as zie as my pronoun moving forward. 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Digityman

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, Digityman said:

I would complain to management and they would silence you. 

 

I refer you to the "Global Moderator" title below my avatar. And you're on triple double secret probation, buddy!

 

6 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Also, I would like to be referred to as zie as my pronoun moving forward. 

 

Mine are "it, me"

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by radoran

[GrittyForever]

Just noticed we've actually fallen below New Jersey for dead last in the division, now that is sad. 

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Just noticed we've actually fallen below New Jersey for dead last in the division, now that is sad. 

 

Ya, well we're tied with Buffalo and ahead of Ottawa. We need to do worse!