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Don't Expect Much From an "Aggressive Retool"


Howie58

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Last two coaches the Flyers had, who had significant W/L records, were Hitch and Lavy. If I recall both got ran out because, among other things, "they lost the locker room". Coincidentally,  both had previously won a SC.  Successful NHL head coaches don't last in Philly. Prolly cause they don't do things the management way

 

Does anyone see a pattern?

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2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Mike Hastings.  He has been successful at Minnesota State and would bring energy and a good resume of teaching winning developmental hockey. 

 

And he is a Minnesota St so you know @flyercanuck will sign off on it.

 

I think he would be a great decision.

 

Looks how much Gallant made a difference with the Rangers.

 

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't think a retread NHL guy is what is needed. 

 

Me either. I would love Hastings or a very good news brain from the OHL/WHL/Q.

 

I don't have a name from that league to give you but would be willing to listen to names offered.

 

:BrownBag:

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Okay I get where you're coming from...makes sense. I'm not looking for Torts or the resurrection of Mike Keenan, I only thought with the "rebuild" and the number of young players the Flyers will have, an experienced NHL coach should eliminate one factor when the results come in. If not eliminate at least the HC won't be a rookie, learning on the job - as a good number of key players will be doing.

 

But yes a 1000x if you can find a HC - wherever - who's got the ability to get young players to find their game in the NHL, to play with confidence and continually get better .... that's the right choice. The Flyers desperately need someone who can work with Provorov, TK, Sanheim (who has gotten better despite his partner), Farabee, York etc. These guys are gems, diamonds in the rough and should be great NHL players for years to come - if Fletcher can assemble a roster that doesn't self-destruct through injuries and no backup plan for them when they happen.

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6 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Farabee, York

 

And that is why I listed Hastings they are familiar with him because he runs the US Juniors team.

 

So yes you would have a guy who is familiar with transitioning young men 18 till they are 23 or 24. 

 

Now working with vets well a different story but I would love to give him a shot.

 

And just because Hakstol failed doesn't mean you shouldn't hire another college coach.

 

In my opinion Hextall's one big flaw when hiring Hak he just didn't out of familiarity because he had dealt with him from recruiting his son to North Dakota and during his time there.

 

Should have expanded his search more so he could make sure he hired the right college coach.

 

For instance I think Jim Montgomery would have been a better choice at least he had won a national title.

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12 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

I understand what you're saying.  But, I didn't say don't hire another college coach.  I simply said there are similarities to consider.

 

And as long as Fletcher is GM here, I don't think there's any chance that a guy like Hastings or others who lack professional backgrounds gets hired here.  After all, I'm still not convinced the idiot realizes that Yeo needs to be fired.  Because he's Fletcher's boy who tells Fletcher what he wants to hear, not what he should be told.  And I think that has a lot to do with why Vigneault (the first true quality head coached hired by this team since Lavy was also fired in error...)  was fired in the first place.  That and allowing many of the lazy players on the roster to again get a quality head coach fired.  Vigneault wasn't willing to be that Fletcher "Yes Man" that Fletcher's ego must have below him.  Therrien deserved to have been fired(possibly along with Yeo) at the time.  But, not AV.

 

Sure but even all the experience Gallant had he eventually fell on deaf ears from his team.

 

So no hire is without risk.

 

Bottom line is you have to find your guy who has the resume you seek and he has to bring with him the identity which they will have to incorporate along with the systems he wish to instill.

 

And most importantly be able to coach up the kids and vets he gets to working within the system - not be like a Jim Schawrtz X-defensive coordinator for the Eagles who had to have guys who FIT what he already did because he could coach and develop the vets or kids.

 

Basically like drafting it isn't an exact science but it all goes smoother with an identity (which this team has lacked for a while now) and a system for everyone to eventually learn and be able to just play and not have to think so much.

 

But I don't have faith at all this front office can/will do that.

 

So with that said do you have anyone in mind? Just asking.

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19 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Coach won’t really make much difference until they get a massive infusion of talent.  I don’t know where that’s coming from.

 

So you are sitting here and telling me this organization right now as NO talent to work with at all everyone has to go???

 

I can't wait to hear this response...

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I won't presume to speak for SCFlyer but I think he's got a point.

 

I don't think they need a massive influx of talent but they do - like all teams I guess - need some better depth players. And unless the veteran scorers like Couturier, Atkinson and TK have good-to-great years the goals may be hard to find. Farabee has to become a steady scoring threat, which he very nearly is already.

 

On D a lot depends on Ellis unfortunately. The Risto/Sanheim pair aggravates me to no end bc I believe it's holding back Sanheim, even though he has improved a lot the past month or so. But after Provorov, Sanheim, Ristolainen and maybe Ellis it looks pretty thin on D.

 

edit: I forgot - York is coming along nicely. But the Ellis situation sucks.

Edited by GratefulFlyers
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4 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Well, like I said, I'm still not convinced that Chuck realizes that Yeo needs to be replaced.  However, if he does, I think he tries to hire Tocchet.  But, I'm not sure Rick even wants the job.  And I can't say I blame him when Fletcher would be his GM.

 

Yep another good ol boy.

 

I have always like Tocchet but I am not sure he would be anything more than a stop gap is all. 

 

But yeah wouldn't be shocked.

 

And yeah also wouldn't be shocked if these clowns kept Yeo.

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

And yeah also wouldn't be shocked if these clowns kept Yeo.

 

I can see that happening without any fanfare. The injury excuse will get trotted out and it'll be valid - to a point. But the totally inept special teams? Who's going to turn them around? The PP is dead last in the league the PK close to the same. Not necessarily on Yeo but a blind man can see whoever is running them isn't getting the job done. I haven't heard a peep about changing the assistants.

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So you are sitting here and telling me this organization right now as NO talent to work with at all everyone has to go???

 

I can't wait to hear this response...

Who on the Flyers can we anticipate being a perennial all star?
 

Cause we need a couple of those guys before I would worry about doing anything in the playoffs.

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3 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Hakstol punished the youth instead of educating them, and was scared of holding vets accountable for the same things he punished youth for

HCs in the Flyer organization are not allowed to hold vets accountable.  If they do, they are shown the door

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2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Coach won’t really make much difference until they get a massive infusion of talent.  I don’t know where that’s coming from.

Right. Which I why I'm taking your earlier advice and not watching for the next five years

 

It was 5, right?

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2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Who on the Flyers can we anticipate being a perennial all star?

 

I can't say for sure now but there are a few guys on this roster now worth keeping and a few kids coming up too.

 

I can't say there is certain an All star in there but I am of the mind set there is one or two like Brink, Foerster and Desnoyers possibly....and Farabee.

 

Sure they are NOT of the McDavid or McKinnon ilk but they will have to do for now.

 

If they can find a solid 1st and 2nd line for sure it is going to help.

 

Figuring out the 3rd and 4th won't be so hard if Chuckles stops signing all these old Thompson like guys.

 

I think Emil Andrea has a shot of being a legit one too he just set the rookie record for a defenseman in the SHL this year.

 

Sami Tuomaala is a diamond in the rough too but needs some more time to mature and get a little bigger.

 

But regardless of all this is it going to really matter much if Chuck stays around and Yeo and Lappy as well?

 

 

More likely not.

 

But best case scenario now is they get in the Shane Harper sweps and then more than likely go through a rough year next year maybe and tank hard for a shot a Bedard.

 

About all the hope they have with Chuck being Homer's puppet.

 

 

Edited by OccamsRazor
fix grammar - hey on my phone at work
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1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

Who on the Flyers can we anticipate being a perennial all star?

 

Good question. I don't see any who will be "perennial" All-Stars, as in year in year out. But a notch below - making it once or twice, maybe more, I think there's a couple players worth watching. But only if they take the next step in their development. Right now it's not looking great but there's still hope that at least these 4 will qualify:

 

Farabee - goal-scoring

TK - goal-scoring, agitating/drawing penalties

Provorov - points, PP poise, hits, steadiness

Sanheim - points - esp if he ever gets some PP time (although right now he's better off on the bench while the PP is falling apart on the ice)

 

All 4 should represent the Flyers in an All-Star game at least once in the coming years (if they're afforded the opportunity to take the next step). They're all naturally gifted, talented hockey players. For various reasons we've only glimpsed their potential - in Sanheim's case it's criminal to saddle him with Ristolagging. But if - another huge IF, granted - if that roster gets sorted and the Flyers find an Identity they should rise to the top of the NHL in their respective strengths.

 

and  then there's the prospects who I only read about, never get to see much. Desnoyers, Bobby Brink...? all possibilities.

 

Obviously having a superstar or two, a couple "perennial All-Stars" would be ideal but not every Cup winner has had them. Team play, a roster that plays for each other within their system can win PO rounds, even the Stanley Cup. The Flyers are far away from that type of roster right now, but with some breaks in the draft, this year and next, maybe they can get there.

 

 

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4 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Coach won’t really make much difference until they get a massive infusion of talent.  I don’t know where that’s coming from.

Top 5 pick this year, top 10 pick next year in a strong draft.

Trades.

 

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4 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

After all, I'm still not convinced the idiot realizes that Yeo needs to be fired.

why do you think this?

what have you read or heard? 

Two different guys I trust, Charlie O'Connor and Anthony SanFillipo have written/spoken that Yeo isn't going to be considered.

Charlie seems to have a good source or two in the current front office while Ant has a good relationship with Homer.

both camps seem to be on the same page, so I'm not worried about Yeo being retained.

 

No one is saying anything about Torchetti, and I'm not sure I'd be excited about him being retained/promoted.

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9 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Well, like I said, I'm still not convinced that Chuck realizes that Yeo needs to be replaced.  However, if he does, I think he tries to hire Tocchet.  But, I'm not sure Rick even wants the job.  

I'm very happy to know that you are in touch with what Rick is feeling

 

What are his thoughts on dipping fries in a Frosty and does he think Will Smith overreacted?

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4 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

And you think he'd want to give that contract up to coach this team, under Fletcher as GM?


Good point, sad but true and it hardly applies to just Tocchet. The NHL is a small world and everybody knows everybody. Evidently there’s a place in that world where Fletcher is considered a legit NHL GM. But I have to think (pray) it’s a small space. 
 

Unemployed coaches want to work, granted, but I wonder who the Flyers can attract when their GM keeps digging the hole deeper, hiring players the whole league passed on, and for outrageous prices (Hayes, Ristolagging). 

 

That aside I’m pulling for the guy. He’s made some good moves. And injuries did derail his plans in a big way. But this summer he’s got to hit home runs. The Flyers need a few trades that are clear wins for the team; no more of the patented Fletcher type where he gives away more than he gets. 

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11 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Lmao.  Did I say he doesn't want the job?  No.  As I said, "I'm not sure he wants the job."

 

How much do you think Turner Sports is paying him right now?  Right...  And you think he'd want to give that contract up to coach this team, under Fletcher as GM?  With Holmgren still involved in the decision making as Senior advisor?  If you truly believe that, smartazz, then you're only fooling yourself.  But, you enjoy your alternative reality bubble...

AV was making 5 mil a year. Im pretty sure Tocchet isn't making that being a supporting analyst. His coach salary from AZ was 1.5 mil. Since he couldn't get a HC job before being hired as an analyst, I would guess TNT isn't paying him that. So, regardless of how bad the team is, or who is still there, you throw him an offer of a couple million per, he will accept

 

Tocchet was loved in Philly. He's part of the network, and would be a fit. You're post is based in the premise that he doesn't like Holmgren. But you don't know that is based in fact. It's just a fans POV

 

All this said....I hope he doesn't get the job. It would be more of the same

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20 hours ago, CoachX said:

HCs in the Flyer organization are not allowed to hold vets accountable.  If they do, they are shown the door

 

 

And this right here is what is wrong with this team.

 

 

And we see they don't like it. You good with loosing games...now they changed the Captain.

 

Anyone who objects to holding the troops accountable they has to go too.

 

I DGAF who they are they have to be onboard with the goal or have to go. That isn't negotiable.

 

So none of the old regime is on the ice anymore no Jake, Giroux or even Coots but the stench is still there....it very well could be the left or ingredients are compromised and just need removal.

 

Because removing G, Jake and Coots maybe should have been done as soon as when they moved on from Simmer at least.

 

 

Yeah now best he'll ever be is second to at least Kessel....it is what it is now maybe they can stoke Hayes to want a trade too...i would acquiesce. Even pick up some salary to Aggressively retool.

 

This is one of the few times i would go with what Jim Irsay said as soon as you no you have made a mistake then just move on from it and won it. Just like he did with Carson Wentz.

 

If they moved on from Hayes maybe too the give up wanting to go after Johnny Gaudreau.

 

He will be on the market and i can not see the Flyer not running after him.

 

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15 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

 I asked if you think he'd want to give that contract up to coach this team with Fletcher and Holmgren here?  If your answer to that is yes, so be it.  But, it would be a ridiculously unrealistic answer

Based on what facts?

 

Also, I'd like to know how you concluded he's making 2.5 mil a year to be an analyst, an amount higher than he made as a head coach

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