I am beginning to give up on Bryz

[doom88]

I like how this forum (and its predecessor) has assigned Leighton a middle name, and it stuck. Good usage aziz. Also, very very good points on the second rounders.

[OccamsRazor]

Only if he stays. Only if he can take it. That little post-game interview with the media yesterday was concerning. Wow. I don't think Bryz has the mental stability right now to play in this city. I wish him the best, and hope he finds his game again, but it does not look good for him right now. I would play him every single game until he gets better or implodes. No matter how many goals he lets in. That is the only solution to getting to the bottom with this guy at this stage.

I think he needs to follow his own advice.

To me he seems to "care to much" how else can you explain his reaction every time they score.

He acts like it's the end of the world.

Maybe he should do more like most goaltenders, get mad that he didn't stop it, and just move on and try to channel that energy into stopping the next, like water off a ducks back...instead he dwells on it and it just kills his confidence...you can tell in his body language.

He's the one that is letting the pressure get to him. He's already gotten paid...like he says it should be no worries.

But yet the pressure is killing him and he can't even hide it. Stop givving the media something to rip you on, keep it short and sweet...bottom line don't give them any juicy quotes.

[flyercanuck]

@aziz

2nd round picks are worthless? Duncan Keith. Shea Weber. Patrice Bergeron. Dave Backes. Dave Krecji. Dave Booth. Dave Bolland (theres 4 good players just named Dave) Paul Stastny. Marc.Vlasic. Milan Lucic. PK Subban. Wayne Simmonds. Derek Stepan. Mike Fisher. That's far from all the 2nd round picks playing in the NHL but it would make a pretty damn good team. Then there's the players you could have taken that went later. Of course you could also mention the busts...Ilya Bryzgalov.

[aziz]

and i could list all the undrafted free agents that turned out great. the point is when you look at a particular 2nd round pick, you are looking at a player-to-be who is likely to spend 3 more seasons in junior, do 4 seasons in the AHL, a few years in russia, with maybe a stop-over in sweden, and will finally try to get a gig doing color for the hurricanes.

if a GM has found a way to turn a 2nd round pick into an NHL player who can help his team over whatever timespan, i call it a good trade.

[Podein25]

...who is likely to spend 3 more seasons in junior,

Seriously @aziz?

You have to be 18 to be drafted and under CHL rules teams can only carry a max. of 3 20-year olds. I'm not much for math, but your statement seems to fail the math test.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Podein25

[flyercanuck]

@aziz

First of all, what Pods said.

Second...We'll never know what we could have had with our 2nd round picks, because we almost always trade them for rentals. Of which NONE has helped bring us a cup. Not once. That says it ain't working, to me. Meanwhile Lucic, Krecji and Bergeron were HUGE in bringing the cup to Boston. Keith and Bolland were HUGE in bringing the cup to Chicago. Weber is arguably the best defenceman in the world. Backes has become a premier forward in St. Louis, Etc. etc. etc.

[Podein25]

We'll never know what we could have had with our 2nd round picks,

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's one of those known unknowns @JackStraw is always talking about...

Also, a lesson in the concept of opportunity costs

Edited February 21, 2012 by Podein25

[JackStraw]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's one of those known unknowns @JackStraw is always talking about...

Please keep me out of this little food-fight.

[Podein25]

Please keep me out of this little food-fight.

In that case, I fart in your general direction.

[JackStraw]

Your father was a hamster.

[aziz]

You have to be 18 to be drafted and under CHL rules teams can only carry a max. of 3 20-year olds. I'm not much for math, but your statement seems to fail the math test.

sorry. 2 more years in junior. not really the heart of the statement, though.

[Podein25]

@JackStraw Thou wilt fall backward when thou hast more wit

[JackStraw]

@Podein25 - I have no idea what that means.

[Podein25]

@aziz - just busting your balls buddy.

[JackStraw]

@Podein25 - I figured that but I still have no idea what it means.

[Podein25]

@JackStraw - yeah me neither: it was spat out by a Shakespearean insult generator.

[JackStraw]

@Podein25 - didn't know there was such a thing but why not?

[Podein25]

@JackStraw: Were I like thee I'd throw away myself.

[aziz]

Meanwhile Lucic, Krecji and Bergeron were HUGE in bringing the cup to Boston. Keith and Bolland were HUGE in bringing the cup to Chicago. Weber is arguably the best defenceman in the world. Backes has become a premier forward in St. Louis, Etc. etc. etc.

that's awesome. i won't list the number of 2nd round draft picks who never became full time NHL players, because they outnumber the ones that did by better than 3-1. like i said, that 2003 draft class includes 7 2nd rounders with more than 300 NHL games, 8 years later. 23 picks that ultimately did nothing for their teams versus 7 that at least kinda panned out. well, 22 and 8, jimmy howard hasn't hit 300 games, but he is a success. anyway, 5 of those 8 are what you would call truely valuable. howard, weber, backes, bergeron, and eriksson. i assume no one is going to be kicking themselves with "damnit but we could have drafted maxime laperriere".

so, 5 of 30 picks turned into the kind of player you can't just pick up in the offseason. and that is from the deepest draft in recent memory. sorry, but those odds aren't worth calling 2nd round picks off limits for trading. a guy you can put on the ice now versus a pick that has a 16% chance of making a difference in 4 years? i think holmgren approaches those the right way. not defending him across the board, but i have no problem with him wanting something tangible rather than the very faint maybe.

Edited February 21, 2012 by aziz

[aziz]

@pods sorry, was all defensive mode for some reason.

[Podein25]

@aziz - no biggie man. But just following your logic. If you trade away every 2nd rounder you ever have, which is practically the case with Homer, you reduce the 16% to 0%. How does that make any sense? In the end, you have to develop players somehow. Don't you?

[OzFlyer]

What Flyers second round picks turned into-

<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable8928" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(248, 244, 248); font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; "> <thead class="thead" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(0, 44, 80); color: rgb(224, 224, 224); font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold; "> <tr> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> Year </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> Player drafted with PHI pick </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> NHL Games </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> Return </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> NHL Games with Flyers </th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="alt2" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(224, 224, 224); "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2007</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> TJ Brennan</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 8 (0.5 PPG with Portland, AHL)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Martin Biron</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 156</td> </tr> <tr class="alt1" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2008</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Dmitry Kugryshev</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (back in Russia)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Kevin Marshall</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 10</td> </tr> <tr class="alt2" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(224, 224, 224); "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2009</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Richard Panik</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (0.5 PPG with Norfolk, AHL)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Vaclav Prospal</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 35</td> </tr> <tr class="alt1" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2010</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Jason Zucker</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (1.5 PPG with Denver, NCAA)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> sent Gauthier to LA (Lukacevic, Hersley)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> --- (0)</td> </tr> <tr class="alt2" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(224, 224, 224); "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2011 (with Upshall)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Lucas Lessio</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (1.0 PPG with Oshawa, OHL) (129 Upshall)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Daniel Carcillo</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 186</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Edited February 21, 2012 by OzFlyer

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw: Were I like thee I'd throw away myself.

42

[aziz]

But just following your logic. If you trade away every 2nd rounder you ever have, which is practically the case with Homer, you reduce the 16% to 0%. How does that make any sense? In the end, you have to develop players somehow. Don't you?

i'm not saying a GM should make a point of jetisoning every 2nd round pick on principal. i'm just saying if he wants something for his team, that pick should be viewed as available currency.

besides, we're talking about the flyers here. it isn't like they have had a problem bringing in young players, have they? what, 2nd most points by rookies this season? not to mention the non-rookie youth on the team, giroux, voracek, simmonds, JVR. holmgren's approach has not deprived the flyers of young talent.

[flyercanuck]

that's awesome. i won't list the number of 2nd round draft picks who never became full time NHL players, because they outnumber the ones that did by better than 3-1. like i said, that 2003 draft class includes 7 2nd rounders with more than 300 NHL games, 8 years later. 23 picks that ultimately did nothing for their teams versus 7 that at least kinda panned out. well, 22 and 8, jimmy howard hasn't hit 300 games, but he is a success. anyway, 5 of those 8 are what you would call truely valuable. howard, weber, backes, bergeron, and eriksson. i assume no one is going to be kicking themselves with "damnit but we could have drafted maxime laperriere".

so, 5 of 30 picks turned into the kind of player you can't just pick up in the offseason. and that is from the deepest draft in recent memory. sorry, but those odds aren't worth calling 2nd round picks off limits for trading. a guy you can put on the ice now versus a pick that has a 16% chance of making a difference in 4 years? i think holmgren approaches those the right way. not defending him across the board, but i have no problem with him wanting something tangible rather than the very faint maybe.

Hey I'm not calling 2nds off limits for trade. I'm just wondering why our last two gms have treated them like they carried the plague. There's nothing wrong with taking a shot every once in awhile. That goes for drafting 2nd round picks too. The Flyers "go for it" every single year. And I don't know about you, but I'm a lot more excited about the youth on this team, than the players we've acquired to "go for it". Unless you prefer Bryz, Pronger, Briere, Timonen, Hartnell, Jagr, Grossman, Kubina and their $436 billion in contracts over Giroux, JVR, Couturier, Schenn, Read, Coburn and their six dollars and thirty eight cents worth.