I am beginning to give up on Bryz

[flyercanuck]

What Flyers second round picks turned into-

<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable8928" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(248, 244, 248); font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; "> <thead class="thead" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(0, 44, 80); color: rgb(224, 224, 224); font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold; "> <tr> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> Year </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> Player drafted with PHI pick </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> NHL Games </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> Return </th> <th style="font-size: 9.5pt; height: 15px; background-color: rgb(204, 51, 51); color: rgb(62, 92, 146); "> NHL Games with Flyers </th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="alt2" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(224, 224, 224); "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2007</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> TJ Brennan</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 8 (0.5 PPG with Portland, AHL)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Martin Biron</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 156</td> </tr> <tr class="alt1" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2008</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Dmitry Kugryshev</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (back in Russia)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Kevin Marshall</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 10</td> </tr> <tr class="alt2" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(224, 224, 224); "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2009</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Richard Panik</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (0.5 PPG with Norfolk, AHL)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Vaclav Prospal</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 35</td> </tr> <tr class="alt1" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2010</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Jason Zucker</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (1.5 PPG with Denver, NCAA)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> sent Gauthier to LA (Lukacevic, Hersley)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> --- (0)</td> </tr> <tr class="alt2" style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(224, 224, 224); "> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 2011 (with Upshall)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Lucas Lessio</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 0 (1.0 PPG with Oshawa, OHL) (129 Upshall)</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> Daniel Carcillo</td> <td style="font-size: 9.5pt; "> 186</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

So Philly would HAVE to pick the same players? Coburn was drafted before Shea Weber. So was Carle, Phaneuf, Suter, Klein, Seabrook, Burns and Stuart. And Belle, Richmond, Egener, Ramholt, Smaby, And those are just defencemen.

TJ Brennan was taken by Buffalo in 07. Philly could have taken Subban, Simmonds, Jamie Benn. Instead of trading for Gauthier in 06 we could have drafted Lucic or Clutterbuck. Heck, even Clarke would like that. Instead of Malakov in 04 we could STILL be watching Letang play for Philly. Or Yandle. Or Jonathan Quick.

[aziz]

I'm just wondering why our last two gms have treated them like they carried the plague.

i don't think they did. i think 2nd round picks are inordinately valued by self identified "sellers" at the deadline (16% chance of something is better than having an asset walk away after a season you already know is lost), and the flyers' GMs have realized that they hold the highest trade value:actual value ratio of things they can bargin with. 1st round picks have too much real value to just throw around, 3rd round picks start getting into the single digit probability of paying off range. 2nd round picks are the non-player currency of choice, and i'm good with that.

And I don't know about you, but I'm a lot more excited about the youth on this team, than the players we've acquired to "go for it".

ok, but flyer GMs have managed to do both, so what's the problem? we have plenty of youth on the squad, and have also brought in vet players to bolster the team down the stretch. it obviously doesn't have to be one or the other, so what is it we're unhappy about?

[flyercanuck]

i don't think they did. i think 2nd round picks are inordinately valued by self identified "sellers" at the deadline (16% chance of something is better than having an asset walk away after a season you already know is lost), and the flyers' GMs have realized that they hold the highest trade value:actual value ratio of things they can bargin with. 1st round picks have too much real value to just throw around, 3rd round picks start getting into the single digit probability of paying off range. 2nd round picks are the non-player currency of choice, and i'm good with that.

ok, but flyer GMs have managed to do both, so what's the problem? we have plenty of youth on the squad, and have also brought in vet players to bolster the team down the stretch. it obviously doesn't have to be one or the other, so what is it we're unhappy about?

No cup?

[aziz]

So Philly would HAVE to pick the same players? Coburn was drafted before Shea Weber. So was Carle, Phaneuf, Suter, Klein, Seabrook, Burns and Stuart. And Belle, Richmond, Egener, Ramholt, Smaby, And those are just defencemen.

TJ Brennan was taken by Buffalo in 07. Philly could have taken Subban, Simmonds, Jamie Benn. Instead of trading for Gauthier in 06 we could have drafted Lucic or Clutterbuck. Heck, even Clarke would like that. Instead of Malakov in 04 we could STILL be watching Letang play for Philly. Or Yandle. Or Jonathan Quick.

so, you are now using 100% hindsight to evaluate those trades/picks? the picks were used as the then-current scouting of the players dictated. the flyers might've picked differently, but the likelyhood they would have had future perfect aim is, well, you have to see that isn't how it works. 16%.

[aziz]

No cup?

and you are laying that at the feet of not very many guys picked in the 2nd round? seriously? the flyers players tend to wear skates with white blade holders, and that hasn't worked out well for them, yet. and they make the player wear orange. and the practice jerseys, they are all solid colors, no diagonal stripes. maybe it's time to do something different, change something that has very little impact on anything.

edit: ok, that was snarkier than i meant it to be, sorry. the works-out rate of 2nd round picks is so low, though, that i think it crazy to put "no cups" on the flyers not actually drafting with them. 16%...that works out to 1 NHL player every, what, 6 years, per team that drafts with each of its 2nd round picks. NHL player, mind you, not NHL standout. 2nd round picks are not themselves to key to cup wins. *could be* part of the puzzle, but then everything *could be*. detroit doesn't win its last cup without zetterberg and datsyuk, and they were 7th and 6th rounders, respectively. should the flyers hoard 7th round picks thinking they are going to grab the next zetterberg?

Edited February 21, 2012 by aziz

[flyercanuck]

I'm in no way saying they would have picked any of them. But they could have. At least the chance would be there if they didn't trade the pick away.

As for the 'no cup" comment, all I'm saying is 'going for it" year in and year out hasn't worked in 30 years. Maybe it's time to try something different?

[canoli]

So Bryzgalov is starting tonight.

I guess when the Flyers "try something different" will have to wait - only 8 more years.

[aziz]

As for the 'no cup" comment, all I'm saying is 'going for it" year in and year out hasn't worked in 30 years.

well, true, but it isn't like they are dumping massive assets every february to completely bulk up for the run. though, i suppose, that comes down to what you define as "massive assets", and if 2nd rounders fall into that catagory for you.....

i don't know. to me it looks like the flyers each deadline patch a few holes in the wall, and spend some fringe assets to do it. which is perfectly ok with me. most teams will add *something* over the next few days. i'm not seeing kovalchuk deals or even adam oates deals on an annual basis. i don't think the flyers hurt themselves in any meaningful way with their aquisitions over the last week, and they definitely helped themselves short term. again, i call that good work.