Thats it. Bob is now the # 1

[brelic]

Ha - Meltzer calls them momentum-saves - that's it alright - and soft goals are momentum-killers.

I thought it was a strange time for Brelic to ask "Can any goalie make a difference?" after that goaltending disaster. I mean it, literally, ANYONE on this board would've made those stops Bryzgalov let in yesterday.And if he make the saves ... well it's a whole different game isn't it?

Both those reminded me of Powe's goal a few weeks back, when everyone said Bryzgalov played "pretty well except for that 1 goal."

yeah, right.

The timing does seem strange, doesn't it? Haha.

But, really, I was trying to point out that even though those goals should be stopped, they happened because of bad bad bad turnovers. We had 15 in that game to the Pens' 6. When you turnover the puck 3x as much as your opponent, you're playing with fire.

So, Bryz definitely should have had the first Cooke goal. No excuse. But the breakaway is 50/50 on any goalie. ANd the Staal shortie definitely should have been stopped, but came on a rush that was a result of a bad turnover on the PP.

It's often said that hockey is a game of mistakes and that you have to capitalize on those chances. Well, the Pens certainly did.

[Dynamo 47]

I have to admit, that interview was concerning. I am frustrated too Flyingswede, but I take a little different view. I would play Bryz until he gets better or implodes, whatever comes first. I would keep him in no matter how many goals. I think with the addition of Grossman and Kubina, the Flyers are hoping it gives Bryz more confidence and he plays better. Like most things, this comes down to money and they have contract in place for $51m so they have to live with it. But I know, it is not easy. Or, we could all be surprised and Bryz could be part of a blockbuster trade... Maybe Columbus?..

I agree. For better or worse you signed him to be the man. So play him and keep him in until he plays himself back into top form, regains his confidence or shoots himself with poor play.

I have faith on Homer but did the Flyers EVER have any in depth talks with this guy? In Phoenix he could be a space cadet because no one cared. In a major hockey market with pressure of being the man it's magnified 100 fold. Some guys thrive on the pressure and others can't

[canoli]

hockey is a game of mistakes and that you have to capitalize on those chances. Well, the Pens certainly did.

So true. I'm giving the skaters a break by saying "bad stuff happens sometimes" but I just can't give that same break to Bryzgalov. Not on those 3 goals. Normally I'd agree about the SH breakaway but in this case it was an easy stop - a poke check or ANY kind of forward movement by Bryzgalov and that puck stays out.

I don't give Bob a break either - not on that 1st shift in the 3rd. It was 100% the skaters fault - turning the puck over multiple times. But when the shot comes Bob has to swallow that and stop play. Instead he kicks it out to Jeffrey (whoever) and just like that it's 4-3. In the first minute of the 3rd. Inexcusable. So is the play of the skaters - but your last line of defense has to actually BE a "last line of defense." He can't just say, "Well you know everyone should be playing better." Yeah, no sh-- Sherlock!

[flyercanuck]

Bob was worse today.

Bob is a 2nd year player who makes way less and isn't signed through infinity. He can be sent down, traded or waived. He certainly hasn't been the humongous letdown that Bryz has been and isn't the anchor holding this team back.

[radoran]

I agree. For better or worse you signed him to be the man. So play him and keep him in until he plays himself back into top form, regains his confidence or shoots himself with poor play.

I have faith on Homer but did the Flyers EVER have any in depth talks with this guy? In Phoenix he could be a space cadet because no one cared. In a major hockey market with pressure of being the man it's magnified 100 fold. Some guys thrive on the pressure and others can't

I am increasingly of the position that they didn't do anything beyond looking at his stats. They made, IMO, a Fantasy Hockey decisioon and it's biting them.

With all the talk of bringing in the right kind of skaters it seems they made precious little effort to see if they had the right kind of goalie. I don't get the feeling they even MET Bryzgalov before Snider sent his plane up for him.

To make this a nine-year, NMC commitment was the height of irresponsibility.

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

It's funny how a guy can get that contract from a so called pro manager. I don't consider myself to be anywhere near Holmgrens league in evaluating talent. But Bryzgalov has never impressed me enough to pay him over $5 million for ONE season, let alone NINE!

[radoran]

@radoran

It's funny how a guy can get that contract from a so called pro manager. I don't consider myself to be anywhere near Holmgrens league in evaluating talent. But Bryzgalov has never impressed me enough to pay him over $5 million for ONE season, let alone NINE!

I am of the firm belief that this was Snider's decision. Of all the available goalies, I wouldn't have settled on Bryz and certainly nor for 9/$51M with a NMC.

Vokoun's 2.41/.921 is hardly the reason for Washington's problems. Bryz's 2.79/.900 and Bob's 2.99/.900 is an issue for the Flyers. (Yes, Bryz has a better GAA than Bob)

[Mad Dog]

@radoran

It's funny how a guy can get that contract from a so called pro manager. I don't consider myself to be anywhere near Holmgrens league in evaluating talent. But Bryzgalov has never impressed me enough to pay him over $5 million for ONE season, let alone NINE!

I can see where Holmgren could've bought this line, hook and sinker. Right or wrong, but Bryzgalov was a Vezina candidate not so long ago.... which till this day is a mistery to me. Not defending the beyond stupid contract he gave him, but at least I can see why he did it considering the time it happened and everything else.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Mad Dog

[radoran]

I can see where Holmgren could've bought this line, hook and sinker. Right or wrong, but Bryzgalov was a Vezina candidate not so long ago.... which till this day is a mistery to me. Not defending the beyond stupid contract he gave him, but at least I can see why he did it considering the time it happened and everything else.

Bryzgalov was 42-20-6, 2.29/.920 in that Vezina candidate season.

But when you put it in context of his career in Phoenix, it is something of an outlier:

2.43/.921

2.98/.906

2.29/.920

2.48/.921

Phoenix also plays their division opponents including LA, Dallas and Anaheim (none of whom have been clear world beaters in the past five years). The other is San Jose.

That's not at all the same as the Rangers, Pens and Devils. In 09-10, LA is the only one of the three to make the playoffs and they trailed Phoenix by six points.

Add to that the pressure of playing in a real hockey market instead of Phoenix or Anaheim.

[Mad Dog]

@radoran

Believe me Rad, I am entirely with your line of logic. I would also note that Phoenix plays a totally different style of game. They win games with defense, not offense, like Laviolette tries to do. As I said many times before, the goalie is basically destined to succeed in that system. Look at Mike Smith who is being an unquestioned MVP for that team. That's Mike Smith - an outcast, a pariah of the NHL.

Yet, one cannot dismiss the abysmal way Bryzgalov has been playing this year. I’ve never seen ANYthing like this before, and we all witnessed the dregs in net this team had over the last 12-15 years. Yet, I don’t think I would be reaching much by saying this is BY FAR the worst goalie (performance-wise) we had in this city in a long, long time. The Cook’s first goal this weekend only typified the way Bryzgalov has been playing all season long. He had no right NOT to make a save on that shot. There was absolutely no reason to let that one in. *I* could’ve made that save; that’s how easy that shot was.

My point was that I was just trying to give Holmgren some way-out. The Flyers had to make a move after the disaster of the playoffs they had. Problem is, there was nobody on the market who was worth a spit. If anything, I would’ve probably gone with Vocoun as a back-up and tried to groom Bob. We can only speculate at this point whether this would have resulted in a different outcome, but at least you wouldn’t be committing to this gargantuan contract, in the process having a real shot at seeing what your kid goalie can do in his full second year. Logic suggests though, it couldn’t possibly be any worse than this fiasco the Flyers have on their hands now.

I don’t agree with the move, but I understand *why* it was made.

[radoran]

I had hopes for Bryz as he started this year pretty well after being dropped from the Classic.

I missed the Pens game (thank God) but those were three awful, awful goals.

This is also a Pens squad that in their next game got smoked 6-2 by Buffalo.

Again, I don't think this was "Homer's call" - most of the reporting I have seen points squarely at Snider - so I don't know that he needs an "out."

As we all know, nobody on the Flyers seriously questions Mr. Snider.

[Mad Dog]

Again, I don't think this was "Homer's call" - most of the reporting I have seen points squarely at Snider - so I don't know that he needs an "out."

Sure, but here is what I wonder though. It's been made known that the directive to upgrade in net immediately came directly from Snider. But did Snider actually tell Holmgren *who* he should sign? Snider meddles, but I don't know if he meddles *that* much. Does he actually give his GM names of players who he wants or does not want to sign? If that's the case, why even have a GM?

I think the selection was purely Holmgren's and his aids. It turned out it was a wrong - almost criminally wrong - decision.

[radoran]

Sure, but here is what I wonder though. It's been made known that the directive to upgrade in net immediately came directly from Snider. But did Snider actually tell Holmgren *who* he should sign? Snider meddles, but I don't know if he meddles *that* much. Does he actually give his GM names of players who he wants or does not want to sign? If that's the case, why even have a GM?

I think the selection was purely Holmgren's and his aids. It turned out it was a wrong - almost criminally wrong - decision.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-06-22/sports/29690025_1_salary-cap-ed-snider-ilya-bryzgalov

Snider was force behind Flyers chasing goalie Bryzgalov

June 22, 2011|By Frank Seravalli, seravaf@phillynews.com

LAS VEGAS - If there were ever any doubt about who controls the Philadelphia Flyers, Ed Snider put that to rest yesterday.

The Flyers' chairman and founder, now 78, is no omnipresent figurehead. He is still the one pulling the strings.

Snider made it clear that he is the one who wants Ilya Bryzgalov in a Flyers uniform next season, setting in motion a directive at the end of last season that put general manager Paul Holmgren on a mission.

...

"By and large, you could not spend as much on forwards or defensemen and still win," Snider said. "It can be a crap shoot no matter who you bring in. But I'm hopeful that this is the guy that can make it happen. For me, the goaltender is the final piece on this team."

Snider personally met with Bryzgalov last week, even sending his private jet to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport to ferry him to South Philly after a long flight from Moscow.

"I was very impressed with him," Snider said. "He was intelligent, fun to be around. It really was a nice meeting."

[Mad Dog]

@radoran

Wow. That's shameful, really. God only knows why would the owner feel he needs to interefere to such a laughable extent.

Given that, you are right of course: Homer doesn't need an "out". I hope The Old Man feels proud of his achievement.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Mad Dog

[BearOnIce]

I agree. For better or worse you signed him to be the man. So play him and keep him in until he plays himself back into top form, regains his confidence or shoots himself with poor play.

I have faith on Homer but did the Flyers EVER have any in depth talks with this guy? In Phoenix he could be a space cadet because no one cared. In a major hockey market with pressure of being the man it's magnified 100 fold. Some guys thrive on the pressure and others can't

I think the Flyers did very marginal research. They saw him as a #1 guy. They threw the dice. This is what despiration will do. All of the interviews about Bryz with former Yote players are very enlightening, to say the least.

[brelic]

http://articles.phil...-ilya-bryzgalov

And that's how the Flyers lost all of their leverage.

They basically gave Ilya a blank cheque.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Just to further emphasize the point, Meltzer's article today:

If Ilya Bryzgalov and Sergei Bobrovsky don't hold up their end of the bargain, it doesn't matter what else the team does. Bad goaltending will drag everything else down with it, just as surely as clutch goaltending uplifts a team and inspires it play that much harder in front of them.

It is not expecting too much to ask for routine saves and the occasional tougher -- but still makeable -- save. No team in the world can play perfect defense. Turnovers will happen. Coverages will break down. Other teams will simply make good plays and create some scoring chances where no one is to "blame." That when the goalies need to carry the load.

[orange_crush]

Sorry I know there is alot of Bryz threads but this have to end now. I've had it. He have at best being mediocre all along the season and the 1st and 2nd goal against us tonight was brutal. I cant see that Bob can be worse. I dont give a rat *** how much sallary Bryz have at the moment, he must sit. You cant win any games letting soft goals like that in. And look how he is reacting... Its like he is drunk or sleepwalking.

I don't feel confident with either goalie..

[AJgoal]

To that point, DGG, the 5-on-3 shorty was just that kind of goal. Giroux madea good play in getting it back to Timonen, but the puck hopped his stick. 9 times out of 10, especially on a 5-on-3, that's out of the zone, regathered, and played back in. Cooke happened to read the play and was going in the right direction to get speed up, while Timonen had to turn and chase. Cooke still got forced wide by Timonen, Bryzgalov has to make that save, it wasn't even a strong shot. but he lets it in, it's a 5-on-3 goal against, the game's tied, the crowd's out of it, and the Pens have all the momentum.

[radoran]

I don't feel confident with either goalie..

It seems the more work Bob has gotten his numbers have gotten worse.

And just as Bryz looks like he might be aware that there's a corner to turn, he goes the other way.

Mid bogling

[Bakanekimiwa]

If he sists in days negotation his sally up before inkin with us I think he must have the confident. The confident is something we have paid for. He knows negotion his sallary up that he went to a team who wants the cup and he said "I can help you get that puck so give me alot of money" Now Homer just look stupid. Support him? when did we not support him? He had all the money and support he needed in the beginning of the season.

i have no idea what you just said there sweded... haha.. but, i have to tell you, i was at the game on sat. JVR looked pretty damn good for being out as long as he was. his moves were top notch and he made more than one D man look silly. he had me thinking that it could be premature to give him up unless there is very high return. he's only 22 FCOL.

[Bakanekimiwa]

I can see where Holmgren could've bought this line, hook and sinker. Right or wrong, but Bryzgalov was a Vezina candidate not so long ago.... which till this day is a mistery to me. Not defending the beyond stupid contract he gave him, but at least I can see why he did it considering the time it happened and everything else.

i don't think the logic in going after bryz was flawed in any way. he was(whether it seems believable or not) a vezina candidate. he was also on a very bad team. put those things together and it's not at all a stretch to think he would fair much better on a better team. clearly... he has not.

also, given all of what i just said, it's still pretty obvious to everyone that the deal structure was not a good one. 9yrs/ NMC is bad enough, but with the $51m, that just makes it really really bad.

i think that pretty much everyone on the hockey planet is surprised by just how bad bryz has been. i can't see how anyone would have predicted him being THIS bad. maybe aziz will tell you he did, but that's about the only one.

[Mad Dog]

also, given all of what i just said, it's still pretty obvious to everyone that the deal structure was not a good one. 9yrs/ NMC is bad enough, but with the $51m, that just makes it really really bad.

i think that pretty much everyone on the hockey planet is surprised by just how bad bryz has been. i can't see how anyone would have predicted him being THIS bad. maybe aziz will tell you he did, but that's about the only one.

And that's what boggles my mind more than anything. Sure, the system in Phoenix was conducive to him playing well, but he still had to make saves, system or not. How can any NHL goalie allow the first Cook’s goal in the Saturday’s game? And most of the goals he lets in are the saves that just about ANY goalie, let alone a former Vezina candidate, is supposed to be able to make.

I don’t want to start anything, but I really have a feeling that there is something more to it. Something makes Bryzgalov uncomfortable. What it is – I have no idea. But he clearly looks uncomfortable playing this year.

[terp]

Sorry I know there is alot of Bryz threads but this have to end now. I've had it. He have at best being mediocre all along the season and the 1st and 2nd goal against us tonight was brutal. I cant see that Bob can be worse. I dont give a rat *** how much sallary Bryz have at the moment, he must sit. You cant win any games letting soft goals like that in. And look how he is reacting... Its like he is drunk or sleepwalking.

Seems like Bob always get tarred along with Bryzgalov and that doesn't seem reasonable to me.

I'll admit, I'm a fan of Bob's so there's the disclaimer. But look, he's not supposed to be carrying the team. He's a second year goaltender. So if your expectation was that he was going to relieve Bryzgalov and win the Vezina, that was and is the wrong expectation. He's a talented back up and the team probably did need a starter to allow Bob to develop at the proper pace. But they screwed that up and now everyone is pissed because Bob isn't ready to step in, be the savior and win 50 games a year. Bryzgalov is supposed to be the veteran, the one playing consistently, the one handling the pressure. Instead, he's playing like **** and bringing a lot of pressure on both himself and, naturally, Bob, because (according to one line of reasoning) now that Bryzgalov has proven to be a bust, it is Bob's responsibility to bail out the team. This isn't realistic.

The problem is Bryzgalov, his contract, and the fire he is drawing, not Bob.

Edited February 20, 2012 by terp

[radoran]

If Bryzgalov is "playing like ****" i don't think it is unreasonable to expect Bob to have played better. Not to be a Vezina candidate, not to save the team. Just played better than Bryz.

And for the most part he simply hasn't. In fact, his stats have gotten worse over the course of the season and his play has been as inconsistent as last year - which is why they didn't feel that Bouch and Bob were the answer between the pipes this year.

And if "the pressure" is getting to him - which I don't believe, for the record - then I have even more long term worries.

I like Bob and would have preferred to go with a stopgap starter to let him develop but that was blown out of the water by Ed Snider. I'm certainly not pissed that he hasn't "saved the team." (the title of this thread being "bob is now the #1.")

I wholeheartedly concur that Bryz's play and contract are the biggest problems and that Bob doesn't deserve blame for not saving the team.

But he does need to play better. He has the same "62nd in the league" SV% as Bryz and his GAA is actually higher.

I am somewhat concerned that after all this Bob may need the "change of scenery" at this point to reach potential.