Hypothetical - Couterier or Scheen

[Dynamo 47]

While my preference would be that if we are going to spend $7-8 million a year I would prefer it be on someone like Weber, I definitely think there is something to acquiring Nash.

IF the Flyers truly are involved with Columbus on acquiring Nash, then surely one of our young stars will almost surely be included in the package. So playing devils advocate, if either Schenn or Couterier had to be included to get the deal done, who would you include?

And I have heard a lot of people complain about youth but Nash is still only 27 years old and in his prime. His stats on a lousy team speak for themselves.

He's averaged over 30 goals on a horrible BJ team that has no one else. You put him on a line with Giroux and we likely would have our first 50 goal scorer since LeClair. He is big, but unlike Carter, actually does pass the puck as he has a pretty good goal to assist ratio.

I think Schenn has shown lately why he was so highly rated as he brings a physical package and can score. Couts is bigger, not as physical but his hockey sense is through the roof.

So if a trade for Nash had to be made, who would you include of Couts and Schenn?

My choice would be to keep Couterier. He is like a coach on the ice, has excellent size and will only fill out over time. Plus if moved up to a scoring line or playing with guys who can score, his numbers would dramatically increase. Not to mention his all around game of being responsible defensively, ability to win faceoffs, etc.

[flyercanuck]

You can bring in all the Rick Nashs you want, until Bryzgalov is gone this team is a waste of forward talent. I'd keep them both.

[Phillygrump]

And just like that the thread is killed by a goalie conversation...

[flyercanuck]

@Phillygrump

Well forward is the least of this teams worries. We may well be the deepest team in the league at forward. So why on earth do we need Nash?

[AJgoal]

It depends on a lot of things, especially what the final deal would look like.

First off, I'm not sold on brining in Nash. His cap number is big and the cap is likely to go down after this season when the new CBA is agreed to. If there's a buyout clause, Nash isn't someone you'd want to buy out, but someone you may have to. Turning him into a damned expensive rental. On the flip side, he's a great goal scorer who's languished on Columbus. Adding him to the Flyers makes them that much more dangerous in the offensive zone.

The Flyers have five centers right now: Giroux, Briere, Talbot, Schenn, and Couturier. Toss in Read and that's quite a few guys with the ability to line up in the middle. Read has done alright with the transition to wing. Ideally, I would keep them all, but Couturier's and Read's defensive play make them more valuable to me. Also, Schenn's cap hit is still high the next two years. He has potential, but if he'll be able to realize it here is a good question. Couturier is a bigger body, as well. Once he fills out, he could become a monster.

Like I said, ideally I'd keep both. We know the talent is there, and Briere is starting to look to me like he's falling apart - but then, I felt the same way two seasons ago. Barring that, I'd prefer to use one to bring in a young, top tier D-man. Barring THAT, if we absolutely must trade one for Nash, I trade Schenn. And I feel dirty just typing that.

[phlfly]

I wonder if Rick Nash is next Joe Thornton, he has size, talent, hard working but would not be able to take a next step, like Joe. Remember Joe's performance during playoff is not impressive. So it could be Courts and Shenn will be better on long run. I think Schenn has more potential then Courts, just after I saw his game, he does a lot things naturally, Schenn is right position for rebounds, very strong near the boards, amazing vision and sense for the game, but Courts is more like Mike Richars with a little more talent (may be) or may be just his size is giving him ability to do better than Richie.

[Phillygrump]

@Phillygrump

Well forward is the least of this teams worries. We may well be the deepest team in the league at forward. So why on earth do we need Nash?

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all FC.

[The Quigster]

This team needs Rick Nash Like Homer needs a bicycle!

[Navyhockey]

While my preference would be that if we are going to spend $7-8 million a year I would prefer it be on someone like Weber, I definitely think there is something to acquiring Nash.

IF the Flyers truly are involved with Columbus on acquiring Nash, then surely one of our young stars will almost surely be included in the package. So playing devils advocate, if either Schenn or Couterier had to be included to get the deal done, who would you include?

And I have heard a lot of people complain about youth but Nash is still only 27 years old and in his prime. His stats on a lousy team speak for themselves.

He's averaged over 30 goals on a horrible BJ team that has no one else. You put him on a line with Giroux and we likely would have our first 50 goal scorer since LeClair. He is big, but unlike Carter, actually does pass the puck as he has a pretty good goal to assist ratio.

I think Schenn has shown lately why he was so highly rated as he brings a physical package and can score. Couts is bigger, not as physical but his hockey sense is through the roof.

So if a trade for Nash had to be made, who would you include of Couts and Schenn?

My choice would be to keep Couterier. He is like a coach on the ice, has excellent size and will only fill out over time. Plus if moved up to a scoring line or playing with guys who can score, his numbers would dramatically increase. Not to mention his all around game of being responsible defensively, ability to win faceoffs, etc.

If I am bringing in Nash, I hope it involves Brzy somehow, but that's for another discussion. I would trade Schenn if we're getting Nash. We would be getting a bonafied scorer, so I would be willing to part with a young gun that is more known for putting the puck in the net than being a two-way forward. Also, Couturier comes cheaper right now, so I think it would be better to kep him, even if Schenn has a higher ceiling offensively.

[Philly29]

And just like that the thread is killed by a goalie conversation...

This thread has been dead from the start when your mentioning a trade involving either of these two kids...

[dilbert719]

As mentioned before, Rick Nash isn't the player we need to be considering trading one of our two young guns for. However, the more general point you're going for is "if trading one of the two is mandatory to bring in a superstar, which one goes?" Changing that superstar to the far more logical and useful Shea Weber probably cuts off the whole "why would we trade for Rick Nash" argument that derails the thread.

So, if trading one of them (and some other pieces) gets me Shea Weber, I tend to agree with the general consensus: Couturier is the guy to keep. For a team with as shaky a goalie situation as we've had since Parent retired, the stouter our defense in front of the goalie is, the less likely he is to hurt us. Couturier's going to bring less offense than Schenn does, but is going to be a lot more help on the back end. High scoring games are exciting, but winning trumps that, and the better team defense you play, the more likely you are to win.

[Adamflyers]

If the trade for Nash was a certainty and I persionally had the choice to trade one or the other, I'd pick Schenn. Coots has impressed me so much and I think he is the kind of 2 way player that will have a long lasting effect on this team.

Personally, I'm with FC on this one though. I don't see why we need Nash, so I hope we don't lose either of these kids. They both look like they are only going to get better.

[KjellShocked]

This team needs Rick Nash Like Homer needs a bicycle!

LOL. Well said. I love Nash but he's overrated and at $7.8 million he's REALLY overrated.

[DaGreatGazoo]

LOL. Well said. I love Nash but he's overrated and at $7.8 million he's REALLY overrated.

$7.8 million until 2018, no less!!

[PHI Flyers10]

You guys really think Nash is overrated? I think he's the real deal. Could be a 90+ point player every year if he was on a good team. I just don't think he's what we need, as much as I'd love to have him on our wing. I'd give up JvR for him, because at this point I don't think JvR is going to pan out. He's looked amazing but often doesn't and seems to occasionally have attitude problems.

[ruxpin]

You can bring in all the Rick Nashs you want, until Bryzgalov is gone this team is a waste of forward talent. I'd keep them both.

Completely agree. I don't move either of them for any package including Nash. I just don't think he (Nash) addresses a weakness. And I'm really not sold on Mason, so that doesn't really even sweeten the deal for me.

But since this was posed as a hypothetical, I'll play the "if a gun was held to your head and you HAD to pick Schenn or Coots" I guess I move Schenn. To me, Couts looks like a guy who could develop over time into a faceoff/penalty kill/shut down guy. Schenn MIGHT be redundant with other pieces we have. I'd hate to move either, but I guess I'd want to keep Couts out of the two.

[Phillygrump]

This thread has been dead from the start when your mentioning a trade involving either of these two kids...

To be fair, I didn't mention it, but I don't want to trade either of those two kids.

[orange_crush]

While my preference would be that if we are going to spend $7-8 million a year I would prefer it be on someone like Weber, I definitely think there is something to acquiring Nash.

IF the Flyers truly are involved with Columbus on acquiring Nash, then surely one of our young stars will almost surely be included in the package. So playing devils advocate, if either Schenn or Couterier had to be included to get the deal done, who would you include?

And I have heard a lot of people complain about youth but Nash is still only 27 years old and in his prime. His stats on a lousy team speak for themselves.

He's averaged over 30 goals on a horrible BJ team that has no one else. You put him on a line with Giroux and we likely would have our first 50 goal scorer since LeClair. He is big, but unlike Carter, actually does pass the puck as he has a pretty good goal to assist ratio.

I think Schenn has shown lately why he was so highly rated as he brings a physical package and can score. Couts is bigger, not as physical but his hockey sense is through the roof.

So if a trade for Nash had to be made, who would you include of Couts and Schenn?

My choice would be to keep Couterier. He is like a coach on the ice, has excellent size and will only fill out over time. Plus if moved up to a scoring line or playing with guys who can score, his numbers would dramatically increase. Not to mention his all around game of being responsible defensively, ability to win faceoffs, etc.

I would rather have Couts and Schenn over Nash

[AndyS]

While my preference would be that if we are going to spend $7-8 million a year I would prefer it be on someone like Weber, I definitely think there is something to acquiring Nash.

IF the Flyers truly are involved with Columbus on acquiring Nash, then surely one of our young stars will almost surely be included in the package. So playing devils advocate, if either Schenn or Couterier had to be included to get the deal done, who would you include?

And I have heard a lot of people complain about youth but Nash is still only 27 years old and in his prime. His stats on a lousy team speak for themselves.

He's averaged over 30 goals on a horrible BJ team that has no one else. You put him on a line with Giroux and we likely would have our first 50 goal scorer since LeClair. He is big, but unlike Carter, actually does pass the puck as he has a pretty good goal to assist ratio.

I think Schenn has shown lately why he was so highly rated as he brings a physical package and can score. Couts is bigger, not as physical but his hockey sense is through the roof.

So if a trade for Nash had to be made, who would you include of Couts and Schenn?

My choice would be to keep Couterier. He is like a coach on the ice, has excellent size and will only fill out over time. Plus if moved up to a scoring line or playing with guys who can score, his numbers would dramatically increase. Not to mention his all around game of being responsible defensively, ability to win faceoffs, etc.

I think it would be a huge mistake to trade either of them.

Keep the young guns. In a year or two (assuming the defense gets figured out), the Flyers will be a monster.

[AndyS]

Completely agree. I don't move either of them for any package including Nash. I just don't think he (Nash) addresses a weakness. And I'm really not sold on Mason, so that doesn't really even sweeten the deal for me.

But since this was posed as a hypothetical, I'll play the "if a gun was held to your head and you HAD to pick Schenn or Coots" I guess I move Schenn. To me, Couts looks like a guy who could develop over time into a faceoff/penalty kill/shut down guy. Schenn MIGHT be redundant with other pieces we have. I'd hate to move either, but I guess I'd want to keep Couts out of the two.

If anything, I try to get Bernier out of LA. That kid iis a franchise goalie just waiting to happen.

Maybe package JvR & Carle for Bernier & Jack Johnson.

[AndyS]

I wonder if Rick Nash is next Joe Thornton, he has size, talent, hard working but would not be able to take a next step, like Joe. Remember Joe's performance during playoff is not impressive. So it could be Courts and Shenn will be better on long run. I think Schenn has more potential then Courts, just after I saw his game, he does a lot things naturally, Schenn is right position for rebounds, very strong near the boards, amazing vision and sense for the game, but Courts is more like Mike Richars with a little more talent (may be) or may be just his size is giving him ability to do better than Richie.

Maybe on a good team where he has some help (unlike Columbus), he would excel.

No way I trade Cooter or Schenn. Heck, I want to keep Read too. Youth is a good thing in the NHL.

[Mad Dog]

You guys really think Nash is overrated? I think he's the real deal. Could be a 90+ point player every year if he was on a good team. I just don't think he's what we need, as much as I'd love to have him on our wing. I'd give up JvR for him, because at this point I don't think JvR is going to pan out. He's looked amazing but often doesn't and seems to occasionally have attitude problems.

I don't have much of a problem of trading JVR to get Nash. I am sure if that was all that it takes, both parties woudl've gotten it done by now. The bigger issue to me is balancing salaries. Unless the Flyers find a creative way of gettign rid of some significant salary, Nash is a pipe dream. If they could somehow trade Bryzgalov, taht would just about do it, but it ain't happening because nobody, in his right mind, is taking on that ridiculous contract. And teh second obtsacle in my mind is teh fact that Columbus will most certainly want either Couturier or Schenn (or maybe even both) as part of this deal. And I am not giving up even one of them, because I think both can actually be amazing players in not so distant future.

With Kubina and Grossman acquisition, all this team really needs right now is good goaltending.... I am not even talking *great* - just good goalending. They don't need Nash; they have enough scorers.

[AndyS]

I don't have much of a problem of trading JVR to get Nash. I am sure if that was all that it takes, both parties woudl've gotten it done by now. The bigger issue to me is balancing salaries. Unless the Flyers find a creative way of gettign rid of some significant salary, Nash is a pipe dream. If they could somehow trade Bryzgalov, taht would just about do it, but it ain't happening because nobody, in his right mind, is taking on that ridiculous contract. And teh second obtsacle in my mind is teh fact that Columbus will most certainly want either Couturier or Schenn (or maybe even both) as part of this deal. And I am not giving up even one of them, because I think both can actually be amazing players in not so distant future.

With Kubina and Grossman acquisition, all this team really needs right now is good goaltending.... I am not even talking *great* - just good goalending. They don't need Nash; they have enough scorers.

Nabakov? Could be a good short-term answer.

[mojo1917]

neither,

i trade no one for Nash, this whole line of thinking has me grinding my teeth right out of my mouth....

couterier as an 18/19 year old plays in every situation, has a Ginormous hockey iq and a really good shot. schenn is growing in confidence with each game. he's already good at face offs, hits, is strong like bull on puck and has really good offensive instincts.

I don't even use one of those guys to get someone to take bryzgalov off our hands, i bench his stupid a$s and play bob until he request plane ticket to KHL to be with Peggy.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

I haven't seen this in any of the threads regarding Nash so I'll throw it out there.

Homer may be talking with Howson so that anyone who has interest in Nash think both teams are working a deal. Maybe one of them panics and throws a huge (over payment) offer to Howson that will hurt their team for years to come.

Maybe a little out there, but it's possible.